Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 <silence>
Speaker 1 00:00:18 Welcome back listeners to another episode of The Cosmic Circle, the official podcast of the Cosmic Circus. On today's episode, we'll be discussing HBO's, the last of us. We have had an exciting nine episodes. This first season is over, and we are so excited to talk about it. My name is Brian Kitson, head writer at The Cosmic Circus, and joining me today are my fellow podcast hosts and officials, uh, Anthony and Aila. How we doing today?
Speaker 2 00:00:50 Uh, doing great tonight. Um, really
Speaker 1 00:00:53 Don't speak at once.
Speaker 3 00:00:55 No, I know, know, we're being polite to each other. It's
Speaker 2 00:00:57 Just, it's Monday, you know, we do this on Sunday, so I think everyone's got the Monday blues going into it, but no, we're doing good. I'm always excited to talk with you guys and, and very interested to see where we, we end up on this one.
Speaker 3 00:01:11 Well, not only that, it's Monday after daylight savings time, so I feel like we're all just a little bit off kilter anyway. Um, I'm aila by the way, and I'm very excited to be here. And after Brian gave that official announcement, I totally feel like I need a, like an official cosmic circus uniform or something.
Speaker 1 00:01:30 We're getting t-shirts. Just work. Just don't, don't don't, don't wait too long. No. <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:01:35 I wanted to make pins.
Speaker 3 00:01:37 Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:01:37 We should have pins. But let's get started. You know, let's not waste any time. Uh, the last of us is over nine episodes, about an hour a piece, um, that told the first chapter of the story of Joel and Ellie played by Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey. Um, I'm gonna, you know, throw myself under the bus a little bit. I have not really played the game. I've seen the game played before, so I kind of had an idea of what to expect I did by the game after I started watching like every other poser, um,
Speaker 3 00:02:12 <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:02:14 But I have a lot of thoughts about this series and I kind wanna know where we, where our minds are at with now that the whole season o is over. So, ILA, I wanna start with you. What are your thoughts on this series?
Speaker 3 00:02:26 Well, I wanna say too, uh, you know, I just wanna put it out there that I haven't played the game either. I have played many other similar post-apocalyptic games like Fallout, but I've never played the last of us. Um, so I really appreciated, um, being able to enjoy the story for, you know, just the television medium and not having that kind of, um, I don't wanna say baggage, but I guess I'm gonna say baggage of, of the game attached to, attached to me. Um, I, I loved it. I loved how it was just this really riveting, um, I guess like relationship drama that, you know, happened to take place in, in a world with crazy fungus people.
Speaker 1 00:03:08 <laugh>. No, that, that's a great, that's a great answer. Um, Anthony, what about you?
Speaker 2 00:03:15 Well, I'm in the same boat. I haven't played the game
Speaker 1 00:03:18 Because I'm
Speaker 2 00:03:19 The game and I'm the gamer here. I know, but it's funny 'cause now I'm, now that you said you're pre-order the game, I'm so tempted to buy it 'cause it's coming out on a remaster for PC in like two weeks.
Speaker 3 00:03:29 That's not, that's intentional. You know, I'm, I'm sure that the, you know, the end of the series, the remaster coming out, like they timed that so people would be able to wet that appetite for
Speaker 1 00:03:39 Absolutely. They did for more. They're not fools.
Speaker 3 00:03:41 Right.
Speaker 2 00:03:42 I'm, I'm with it. You know, I, so
Speaker 1 00:03:44 What are your thoughts then of the, the series
Speaker 2 00:03:46 Of the series? I mean, I enjoy, you guys know me well, you know, I don't like, and I apologize to listeners for saying this, but I don't like the zombie trope of anything like zombies mm-hmm. Are just, I'm, I've always write it off. But when I saw the excitement from like, all the people in Discord on Twitter, when some of our friends got to see it and they were just like, I'm blown away by the, by this two hours of television. I just sat down and watched. I said, okay, I'll give it a shot. I'll, I have nothing to watch right now. I'll give it a shot. That first episode, I was just like, I put down everything. I shut my phone off and I don't think I, I was dead to the world. It had me so grabbed during that entire time, and, and watching it every week was definitely a highlight. Like, and on Sundays, I like to turn down a little early, but I was totally okay with staying up every week to watch that.
Speaker 1 00:04:36 You know, what's inter I was gonna say, what's interesting is that I actually got to see the episodes early. Um, I didn't purposely pick this one for a screener because I was in, I, 'cause I like was dying to see it, but I was doing it to be, uh, Vic's backup. And so when I got the first episode in my mailbox and I got out on like a, like a Thursday, I think it was before the show came out, and I was like, okay, I have an hour break at work. I'm gonna watch this. And I too was blown away by just the production value, the story, the characters, the acting. I mean, there was nothing, I could not walk away from any part of this first episode and the entire series as a whole and say, this was bad, or I didn't really like this unless I was really starting to nitpick. I was just thought that they, they did a really good, they did a really good job adapting this game, which later on we'll talk about. That's not always the truth to video game adaptations.
Speaker 3 00:05:36 Ultimately, this is a genre show. And I think what what's unique about it is that, um, and, and Anthony, you mentioned a little bit like so many people across like the whole internet we're just talking about it all at the same time. And it was just like this cross wide cross section of people from, from every like, just type of person. And I think, you know, know, it's hard not to get swept up in that in some ways and to just want to check it out and see what, what the deal is. And I think Brian also, you know, the production value is, is like so much higher than the typical genre show not to knock, you know, things we, we that we write about in love. But, you know, at this, I think I read somewhere that, uh, the last of us had 10 to $15 million of budget per episode. And like you can tell they use that really well.
Speaker 2 00:06:25 They get those accountants in other places. 'cause that was well spent in Money. <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:06:30 I I think that this is a pattern on a hold though, with a lot of H B O shows is that it is the kind of event television that I think everybody else is trying to aim for mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 00:06:40 <affirmative>.
Speaker 1 00:06:41 And it's, you don't really see that
Speaker 3 00:06:43 It's something that, um, that Netflix could learn from because it was week after week after week. Okay. It's Sunday night or, and Friday night that one day people are are talking about this. People are all watching. And you've, if you looked at the ratings, you could see it build. Um, and eventually, I think yesterday's episode actually what 30 million people watched Wow. Compared to the Oscars when it was like 15 million people. So
Speaker 1 00:07:08 That's ridiculous. I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 00:07:11 So one thing I I I will give H B O credit, they have mastered the art of becoming the water cooler talk show. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yes. I, I think back to those Game of Thrones Day when that was like the only thing people were talking about and you had to walk around like this, la la la la la la otherwise you were gonna get everything spoiled <laugh>. That's what forced me to watch the show. 'cause I'm like, I'm tired of being behind on this. And I ran into some friends this weekend, uh, at a food festival and somehow the show came up in conversation and they're like, oh, we're sitting down every week. We can't miss an episode. Like they, they were diligent in making sure they were caught up on what was going on with the show. And then I'm seeing some of my friends on Facebook saying the same thing.
Speaker 2 00:07:48 They're like, man, this is great. I I'm there every week making sure I'm watching it. So to see people that, 'cause these people aren't video game players. I know them well, they don't play. They, if I didn't play it, it would've surprised me if they had. And then, you know, like the merits of it first were, okay, it's a video game adaptation with Pedro PAs like, awesome. But like that star power of his really catapulted 'cause people were watching for him. And then the show sold itself and it kept viewers. 'cause like, I don't think there was much of drops hardly, if anything, it was more of a, a climb, right?
Speaker 3 00:08:24 Yeah. It was building. And I wanna correct something real quickly that I said. I said it was 30 million people, but that was over the whole series last night. I think it was just 8.2 or 8.4. So I just wanna say that I made that mistake, but it was still freaking huge.
Speaker 1 00:08:36 Wow. That's hu that's a lot of viewers that tuned in against something like the Oscars, which, you know, most network television does not put anything on against the Oscars. You don't win. But they won. They won
Speaker 2 00:08:47 <laugh>. Another thing to note is they also were going on around the Super Bowl and they said, all right, let's rearrange that and put it to Friday. And I don't think it took that big of a hit. Like, I mean, yes it did, it did take a hit, but it wasn't like, as detrimental as you could've assumed it would've been. You'd think it'd be so much worse.
Speaker 3 00:09:04 It didn't lose momentum.
Speaker 1 00:09:06 I will say this, that it is one of the shows as, as a therapist, you know, I see almost 40 clients a week that people were coming in and talking about it. Like they were spending time talking about it that day, specifically on a Friday, I had people be like, Hey, can we leave 15 minutes early so we can get home? Like, this was a big deal to people. And it was across ages and races and like sexual identities. And I, my six a six year old woman was telling me the same thing as like a 15 year old boy. Granted, those are just journal statements, but that was how I felt like everybody was talking about it. My supervisor who doesn't watch television was talking about this show.
Speaker 2 00:09:47 Hell, we were cutting our podcast early so I could go watch it. Remember a few weeks ago.
Speaker 3 00:09:53 Yeah. Yeah. And I, I know, like I, I'm, I'm a mom and I'm in lots of like, I, I have many mom friends and I hung out with some of them today and we were talking about the last of us and, and about the finale, which again is like totally, again, across types of people.
Speaker 2 00:10:11 Did they see your notepad?
Speaker 3 00:10:14 No. <laugh> They didn't that. Yeah. So I, I told these guys earlier that I, I had a a, a Girl Scout meeting and I had cannibalism across the, uh, my notepad with a question mark. 'cause you know, episode eight of the last of us, spoiler alert, in case we didn't say that earlier. Um, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:10:32 <laugh>, we didn't. But it should be safely assumed that we're gonna speak spoilers as we do. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:10:37 I did forget to give a warning, but yeah. At this point people spoilers 'cause we are gonna start jumping into some of the stuff <laugh> of the series. So I wanna start off with what parts did we like at the series? And I'm actually gonna start this one because there are parts of this series that just jumped out at me that I can't stop thinking of. And one of them is these very human centered stories that are spread out throughout the season. And granted the whole season is very human centered, but I'm talking like the episode, I think it was three with Frank and Bill. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. And seven with, uh, Ellie and her friend. I can't think of her friend's name. Riley. Riley.
Speaker 3 00:11:13 Riley Riley. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:11:15 These were such human stories that like, even when you took a pause and it wasn't furthering the story, they were so important and they were so beautiful and I cried and mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I don't think you see things like this from shows that, especially post-apocalyptic shows like The Walking Dead, you know, you don't, the Walking Dead was really boring to me, I'm gonna be honest with you. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I got through two or three seasons. It felt like the same old thing, but there was such a focus on the zombie part of it. And this was focused on the humans, the last of us, you know, the lasts that were still there. And for that, I think it was much more brilliant because you could relate to these people. It's hard to relate to a zombie, but you can relate to these people who are trying to survive, who are afraid that they're gonna die at any moment. That you're, you're, you can still find love when there's nothing but a hole that a person falls into. You know, I think that this was one of the best parts of this series, and this is what I loved about it. I, I couldn't wait for those episodes.
Speaker 2 00:12:10 I'd say one, two things stuck out to me. One, the semi realism on how a world would be when everything goes to crap. And, you know, like having to ration supplies, finding things like the Chef Boy Rd Can, that he found in that last episode, <laugh>. I really enjoyed that. And, and them being kind of conservative with bullets. 'cause you're like, this is it. And there's not a factory out there where I can go to academy and go buy another box of 'em. And then I really enjoyed the flashbacks when it was, when you started piecing together that it was flour that was causing everything when you noticed that Sarah didn't eat the cookies or the biscuits or whatever mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then when that came to play out, like, I like the science is what I'm trying to say. I really enjoyed that. They spent that, what, 25 minutes in episode two with Mycologist and just got into it and, and she's like, look, I'm gonna be real with you. It's severe Nuke the city. That's when you realize, shit, this is gonna be bad
Speaker 3 00:13:09 And moment. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:13:12 What
Speaker 3 00:13:12 The moment where she asks to go home to her family to be with them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> just hits that point so hard.
Speaker 2 00:13:18 Precisely. And then another thing I really liked was, uh, bill being a doomsday prepper. 'cause I have friends like that and it made me think of them and I'm like, whenever this hits, I know exactly where I'm headed. <laugh>
Speaker 3 00:13:29 <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:13:32 Absolutely. What about you Aila?
Speaker 3 00:13:34 You know, I think that, and I mentioned that earlier, it's just, this is such a relationship show. This is such a show where you, um, you could put yourself in, like, you can imagine yourself into the situation. And when you do that, I think that the emotional, um, impact is so much stronger. Like, you can put yourself in, I think Henry and Sam's situation and understand why he, it they each made the choices they did. You can put yourself into, um, into Tess's situation and understand why, why she did exactly what she did. You know, there, there are these really, um, the, there are these really human stories like you guys said, that are very impactful.
Speaker 1 00:14:20 You know, along those lines. There's actually a moment in the finale with, um, right at the beginning when we kind of got the story of, um, how Ellie was born. And you got this moment of, you know, we've, we, we've seen this leader of the fireflies be kind of hard and cold. And then you got this moment where she couldn't kill her best friend. And it, like, it took her leaving and like coming back and having to steal herself and realizing that it was more for her friend than it was for her. And I thought I was like, this, this area, this show loves to dance in that like gray area of that humans aren't just good or bad and that they're, they're whole and well-rounded. And that made them also relatable. I don't think there was one person that I couldn't be like, yeah, I can understand. You know, I can understand that the choices Joel made, he was hurt by losing his daughter. You know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, Ellie lost everything. But then at the, there's those moments that you just still like, oh, they're coming together. They're, they're, they're still human. And there wasn't a focus on the zombies. And I think that like, that appeals to people like, you know, Anthony, where like zombie stories are inherently grotesque. It's maybe is a good way to put it. And this wasn't necessarily grotesque. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:15:36 They were a good device. It, it's one thing I really enjoyed that, and I know that there's a little bit of controversy on the frequency or lack of frequency of the infected, but they were there when you really needed them and they felt heavy. 'cause like, like we've all said, we haven't played the game, but I know some that have. And they said there's some missions where it's a little frustrating 'cause it's overwhelming by how many you have to go through that they have to play it over and over and over to get through. And you didn't feel that sense of defeat in the show. There were times where you thought you were gonna go down, but it didn't happen.
Speaker 3 00:16:13 Yeah. I mentioned earlier I hadn't played the game, but I have played Left for Dead and you get like super desensitized to just the swarms and hoards of zombies coming at you and infected coming at you. That I think that mm-hmm. When, when you saw infected in this show, you know, you, you knew that it was real, it was serious. It was, you know, it wasn't just, um mm-hmm. It wasn't just there to, to be, you know, a video game. Television is a different, a different medium than a video game. You're not trying to get exp speed or try to complete a, a quest and clear a building. You're, you know, you you're trying to get from one, um, trying to get your characters to grow. And I think they were, you know, used the zombie, the infected to, to achieve that.
Speaker 2 00:16:58 Oddly enough, this gave me a little memory of another show with Pedro Pascal, and that's the Mandalorian Yep. Season two, episode eight, when he had to face the Dark Troopers because he had trouble with just one. And it felt that same way with the infected, where it wasn't like, okay, one bullet, it's easy and everything. Like no, you could tell these guys are tough. They're not easy to take down. And the weight of having the face one is absolute terror.
Speaker 1 00:17:21 You know, I, the episode, I think it was episode seven, maybe it was episode eight, but when, um, Ellie goes off to the mall and I saw when, as soon as that it was at eight. Okay. Thank you.
Speaker 2 00:17:32 I'm sorry. Seven. Seven,
Speaker 1 00:17:34 Okay. I thought it was seven. Um, I watched all three this weekend, so it was kind of a blur. But like, as they're panning towards, like, so you just see the shoe boxes that are falling, you start to hear kind of the clicking noises and stuff. And I thought, I actually felt dread and I actually felt nervous and I felt scared because I also knew what was coming in a way, even though I didn't know what was coming. And I never felt that in the Walking Dead. I never, I never felt like the, oh, you know, they're, they're so scary. There was just so many of them. But these ones, the moment I saw it, it was almost the same feeling as, um, uh, the big bad of the last season of Stranger Things, where it's like, oh, you're, you're like almost terrified because these things are dangerous. You know, they're fast and they're, and the the things come outta their mouth that are terrifying. Those little tentacles and <laugh>, they did a great job. And I think that's another thing, speaking of other tentacles, is the production value of the C G I and the prosthetics and everything that went into, um, to make this show was fantastic. The big BLO guy from one of the episodes, I actually followed him. I followed him before on Instagram, and that's all prosthetics.
Speaker 3 00:18:47 Wow.
Speaker 1 00:18:49 So like the impressiveness that they put into this, there was a lot of care and a lot of love. And you could definitely see that
Speaker 2 00:18:55 Since you mentioned it, I was gonna make a note, but I remember watching episode five, that's the one you were talking about with the Big Blo when Kathleen and all them get attacked. And I remember that my grip on the chair was so strong that when it ended I was like, looking at my hand. I'm like, wow. Like I could feel the tension all the way through my arm. 'cause I was just gripping as hard. 'cause when that first couple came in, I'm like, okay, this is, this is getting bad. And then the big one showed up and the rest, and I'm like, this is absolute. This is it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, no one's making out of this alive. And then somehow, you know, plot armor, they do. But then you see, uh, Joel picking them off and even then it's not enough. Like they were still such a swarm. And that's when I realized, okay, these guys are some serious deals. Like, compared to what I've seen in other zombies, like you said, with the Walking Dead,
Speaker 1 00:19:49 They
Speaker 2 00:19:50 Weren't really that bad compared to this. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Speaker 3 00:19:53 When, you know, when they're all, when they're all in that particular scene in that episode and the truck starts sinking into the ground, you know, my, my stomach kind of dropped out because you know what's gonna happen, you know, that there, there's this like tsunami of, of, of infected about to come and change everything. And I think, um, what that particular scene is also a really good one because you can really see, um, Joel, you know, the, the things start to change for Joel and you know mm-hmm. <affirmative>, how much he cares about Ellie coming through there. Um, and just how much he's trying to protect her. So I I, I liked that for that reason as well. You
Speaker 1 00:20:36 Know, with all these things that we're mentioning that we liked <laugh>, what are, was there anything that we didn't like? And so an Anthony, I'm gonna start with you because you, I I just want to, you know, sometimes you have the more objective look at things <laugh>. Um, what maybe didn't you like about this series?
Speaker 2 00:20:54 That's funny. 'cause I haven't taught thought too much about what I didn't like. 'cause I like so much of it. So gimme a moment. 'cause you know what, ILA, go ahead. While I think for a minute. 'cause I really don't have anything coming off top of my head.
Speaker 3 00:21:08 You know, I'm, I, it, it's, it's funny that you started with with Anthony because I, I would say he, he definitely does, you know, have a, a a better opinion on those things. And I, I don't know, I, I think I tend to be a little bit more rosy on things, but I, I so take that in mind when you're hearing what I'm saying. I, I just really enjoyed it. I don't have any notes that, um, notes about the story and the show itself that I wanted something different. There are things I wanted more of. There are things that, um, you know, I, I've, I've heard some things about just the room and stuff that's kind of curious to me. But I, the show itself, I thought it was very well done and I don't have any mm-hmm. <affirmative> criticism. So sorry guys. You
Speaker 1 00:21:53 No, it's okay. 'cause I, the, the hard part too is when I was thinking of these questions and as you read some of my reviews, 'cause I know that Vic did majority of them, and I think you, for, for him to help me cover those, um, I never once really had any complaints about any of this, the series. And I felt like, man, you were such a, a, a positive spin person. But when I really tried to think of like, what would I change about this episode? What would I change about this season? The answer was nothing. And part of me thinks that maybe that was because I didn't play the game. Yeah. I didn't have any preconceived notions about what was gonna happen. There was nothing. You know, one of my best friends, she has played both of the games and when I had brought up to her about episode three and I said, I really loved episode three.
Speaker 1 00:22:38 Like, this is probably one of the best hours of television I've ever seen. She was like, I don't like the changes that they made to it. And she goes, and I, even though she's like, she's like, I love the story. I love what they're trying to do, but there were changes that I just, for that part of the story didn't feel right. And so for her, that was a, it was kind of a disappointing episode and I was like, wow, I'm glad I almost didn't play it beforehand. So I didn't have that room for me because I don't, I, that was such a shining star for me. So I think part of it is I just didn't have that preconceived notion from the video game
Speaker 3 00:23:10 And people when they, you know, it's the same thing with books too. People will read a book and they like, love the book and then they have a lot of criticisms and complaints about the adaptations for, for either television or, or movies. And I think that's fair. Um, and I think, you know, in, in my case, in, in your case, like we, we aren't, we, we don't just don't have that baggage. We just are enjoying the story for what it is and not, you know, worried about, um, you know, if they're screwing up a part of the game that we really enjoyed. I'm sure when fallout comes, I'm gonna have a lot of thoughts about what I want different. But, you know,
Speaker 2 00:23:49 So I did think of something while, while you guys were giving your, and it's not even that much of a criticism. It's more like, I just wanted more of something. And it was, I would've liked to see a little bit more about the formation of the fireflies because we just know they exist. Okay. And, and, but it, it'll boil back down to what I was, I didn't add earlier when you asked what I liked, it was the realization of humanity where when the collapse of society happens in civilization, how they're your own communities will form mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Because, you know, people are gonna feel different ways about things without, without diving too much into it. Look how the world reacted to Covid in a sense. So in this one where there's also the aspect of infected that could kill you and come after you. I'm interested to see how we had the formation of Fedra mm-hmm. <affirmative> and why people are against it. And then the fireflies. And you don't really get to see much of how other people perceive both of them. You only see how both sides perceive one another. Uh, fireflies feel about fedra and vice versa. Um, so if anything, I would've liked to see just a little bit more on how the fireies came to be, how they were doing so well in recruitment and that, that I, I would've liked that. That's about all I can think of.
Speaker 1 00:25:16 You know, what's interesting about that is I think that those formations and that story is gonna be something that they explore further down the road. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, especially because it was recently announced, quote unquote air quotes by the, the showrunners that the second game is gonna be adapted over multiple seasons. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so I think that they are gonna take the Game of Thrones approach and start to elaborate differently and across time, and you're going to get more of this backstory and it's gonna be rolling out. And I think that for this season, why that would've been nice. It, it was perfect for what it was, but I think that as time grows, we need to learn more about them as, as two different, like, uh, entities of the world. And I think we're gonna get a lot more of that as we go on. At least I hope so.
Speaker 3 00:26:06 I think with this season too, you know, the focus was very much on, on Ellie and, and Joel. Right. We, and we didn't even learn Ellie's true backstory until the very end of the season. We didn't find out, you know, why, how she came to be. And we didn't find out, you know, what, what really happened in the mall until, until we, you know, met Riley and everything. And I think mm-hmm. <affirmative> that, you know, maybe something similar will happen with the fireflies because there's gonna be fallout, right. 'cause Marlene is dead. Um, there, is there gonna be a new leader? Is there gonna be, are they gonna come after Ellie? You know, there's gonna be a lot of stuff to explore there. And a lot of story still left to, to tell with the fireflies.
Speaker 2 00:26:48 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that finale set up a big story though. That's what you're mentioning right now is spoilers for the second game that I could say right now, but I don't want to
Speaker 3 00:26:55 Yeah. Don't, I haven't seen it. So I, I don't know. I'm just, this is totally based on the first season.
Speaker 1 00:27:02 Sure. Um, speaking of, you know, we've thrown this word video game adaptation out a lot. And before we get to the theories of what we think is gonna happen in the future, um, 'cause none of us really know what happens in the game besides red. Just maybe <laugh> has a little bit of a spoiler. We've had a lot of video game adaptations up to this point that maybe have been less than stellar. Some that have been fantastic. Some that are coming that we're hoping are gonna be fantastic. The ones that are coming to mind are, you know, Sonic, which I think is fantastic. I think that these two games, that these two movies have been great. Laura Croft has been varying degrees of success. While I love the, the Angelina Jolie ones the a the second adaptation maybe not so great. We borderlands Mario, God of War Fallout. The, the, the two of you I know are so excited to talk about, and we're gonna be doing a feature podcast on <laugh>. But like, where do we think that like this ranks in video game adaptation wise compared to other ones? And like, do we have hopes for some of the, the ones that are maybe gonna be rolling out from, um, PlayStation, H B O Amazon? 'cause I believe that's where Fall's coming out. Yeah. I wanna know your thoughts. We're gonna start with you. Ayla <laugh>.
Speaker 3 00:28:13 Um, so I, you know, I haven't seen a lot of video game adaptations that I've, that I guess I've played. And that's probably bad to admit. Um, I, I, I just really enjoyed this. I've, it was a really good story and I just, I don't know. I, I enjoyed it for what it was. Okay. That's not helpful. But yeah.
Speaker 1 00:28:40 No, no, no, I think it's fine. Um, Anthony what about you?
Speaker 2 00:28:44 Well, this was easily one of the finest pieces of television I've seen mm-hmm. <affirmative> in the past few months. So this thing is easily gonna just shoot up to the top of video game adaptations in general. But I mean, even if I didn't know it was part of a video game, it was just one of the best TV shows I've seen in a long damn time. So I'm quite impressed. Um, which I feel really bad for all the future productions coming out 'cause they set such a high bar. Absolutely. But here's the thing that last of us had before this show was even announced. I've always heard about the writing of the game being stellar, just amazing. And they proved it by, by bringing it to the screen in this manner, they showed that story was so good and needed to be adapted. Like, when, when, when it was going into trailers are coming out, I was like, it looks good. Like, visually it looks good. Interesting. But I'm seeing people freaking out. I'm like, what is it? They're like, most people were saying it's one of the best video games I've ever played. You know, like it's, it's definitely worth a try. I'm like, okay, but, and I'm, I'm glad you like Sonic. I had some issues with it. Mostly the fact that they were focusing on the humans, not sonic himself, but I'm a little concerned for everybody else because god damn did they really set the bar so high that I, I don't, how do
Speaker 1 00:30:09 You compete?
Speaker 2 00:30:09 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I'm just like, what are you gonna do that could come close to this like a movie's hardly enough to do? And if all that's gonna be a TV show mm-hmm. <affirmative> that we know nothing about so far, we know very little. So,
Speaker 3 00:30:22 I mean, we've seen pictures that there have been set pictures that have kind of been out and people have started to sort of piece together some of, um, some of the locations and things which kind of give hint to the story. But like, we don't, we don't even know.
Speaker 2 00:30:39 But it's a little different. 'cause with like Fallout, it's a role playing game. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So you, you, you know, you put yourself in the shoes. You're not playing Ellie Right. Or Joel, you're playing, you know, whatever you wanna name yourself and you make the decisions and stuff <laugh>. So that's what's gonna make it a little bit tougher for fallout. I, the strength of the writing going into this show was just, man, my mind is still blown.
Speaker 1 00:31:02 There's like no reason that it should be this good. No, I'm just kidding. But it's really, really good. And I was, I was absolutely mind blown every single week, you know? Yes. I was looking forward to getting it in my mailbox. Um, and I think that speaks to not just the, the, the, the talent of Pedro Pascal, but also Bella Ramsey is fantastic and she was fantastic back in, um,
Speaker 2 00:31:28 Game of Thrones.
Speaker 1 00:31:29 Game of Thrones. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Speaker 2 00:31:30 Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 00:31:30 <affirmative>. They were, they were top notch mm-hmm. <affirmative> back then. And I just, I forgot they both came from Game of Thrones. Yeah,
Speaker 3 00:31:40 They did. Um,
Speaker 1 00:31:42 But I think that a lot of fantastic work, they earned their place in being one of the best TV shows on television right now. And I hope it keeps up with season two. I
Speaker 2 00:31:55 We haven't said it yet.
Speaker 3 00:31:56 No, go ahead.
Speaker 2 00:31:57 We haven't said it yet. But I wanna say that I think every single role that was cast was played a near perfection. And another note is, oh my God, do Ashley Johnson and Bella Ramsey. Mm-hmm. I could totally see the mother daughter thing. Like, they look alike. They did so good in that. And to see Ashley Johnson get a little call out in the last episode was fantastic. For those who don't know, she was the one that portrayed Ellie in the games.
Speaker 3 00:32:24 I was very confused at first with that because again, I, I hadn't played the games and I thought that because they look so similar and they sound so similar, I thought that, okay, there's another time jump because, you know, they're in these little time jumps mm-hmm. <affirmative> <affirmative>, but while they're traveling, so we don't just, you know, s slug through the wilderness. Um, I thought, okay, there's a time jump. She's pregnant and she's about to have a kid because they just, they're so similar. Um, so that was cool.
Speaker 1 00:32:53 No, I was blown away. 'cause I knew Ashley Johnson was coming. I've been, I've loved Ashley Johnson for a long time. She was on growing pains back in the day. If nobody knows that <laugh>, she's also from Critical Role, which we know here at the Cosmic Circus love, um, Vox Kinna. So, but like when they showed her and I was like, I did not notice until I saw her come on the screen. I was like, that looks like Bella Ramsey. And like, that was the first thought I had. And I was so stuck on that for probably the whole time she was on screen that I was just like, wow. I never realized how much they look alike, you know? You know what,
Speaker 2 00:33:35 What blew my mind though, just like a little side note. You know how they have the little bits after the episode where they have the interviews? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I had no idea Bella Ramsey was English. Her American accent is so convincing. I was like, okay. You know, but when I was, when I heard Bella's actual accent, I'm like, wow, you are really good. Huh.
Speaker 1 00:33:58 Really talented.
Speaker 3 00:33:59 She puts Tom Holland's accent to, uh, to shame.
Speaker 1 00:34:03 Hey everybody, <laugh>. Um, so before we wrap up, because we don't have any questions today, we forgot to ask, sorry, listeners, <laugh>, we will ask next time, I promise. But I wanna know without spoiling too much what theories we have for the next season. And actually no, we could talk about spoilers. I was, we already gave them a spoiler warning. Let me,
Speaker 2 00:34:25 Let me do one.
Speaker 1 00:34:27 My thing is I'm gonna put my
Speaker 3 00:34:28 Hands over my ears. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:34:30 <laugh>. Um, they are not my, my, my first one is that anybody who thinks that they're faithfully gonna adapt game two is wrong because they're not getting rid of Pager Pascal like the way they did in the game. And I'm gonna let Anthony go ahead and say that one <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:34:46 Oh, that's not the one I was gonna say.
Speaker 1 00:34:48 Oh, no,
Speaker 2 00:34:49 No, no. What I was gonna say is that the decisions that Joel made at the end in that final episode, they're definitely gonna come back and bite him in the butt. He didn't just shoot just anybody think about it. He took out a very talented surgeon. There's your spoiler with nothing else. Well,
Speaker 3 00:35:05 There, so there's decisions. So, you know, there, there's what it has to do with the plot. So, you know, there are obviously things that are gonna happen with, with the surgeon, which I can kind of guess where, where things are going with that. Um, and how we'll revisit that. There's Marlene there, there's other stuff. But, you know, the whole part of the arc of the season was, uh, Joel and Ellie kind of earning this relationship, you know, this, this kind of, um, this friendship. And he all lies to her. Now you can argue whether or not he's justified or, or it's defensible that he's lying to her. But I'm assuming there are gonna be some fallout from that. There's gonna be some things that, um, you know, they're, they're gonna maybe go their separate ways for a little bit, um, because of that. Because it would be boring if they were just great friends forever. Right? We watch television 'cause we wanna see that their characters grow the relationships that, that tension. So that's what I'm guessing.
Speaker 1 00:36:04 And I think going, you know, people are assuming that something that happens in the beginning of the second game is definitely going to influence how this game starts. Again, I'm just gonna say it 'cause we already had, spoiler warning, Joel dies very early on in the second game. I'm sorry a that
Speaker 3 00:36:23 You No, I mean, I, I I I was on Reddit. I saw
Speaker 2 00:36:26 That people, the thing is she doesn't know who does it. That's right.
Speaker 3 00:36:31 I'm gonna look it up right now and ruin it all.
Speaker 1 00:36:35 But the thing is, is that, and I, I had this discussion in one of the discords that we're in that people who think that they're gonna adapt that very soon in the second season need to remember that H B O is a business mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And they're getting viewers based off of Pedro Pascal. They're not, yeah. They're not going to kill him off anytime soon. I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't, it might happen at the end of season three, but they wanna take him for as long as he can and he doesn't wanna give that up. He loves this show. Yeah. He was one of the champions of this series. He's not going anywhere. And if you think that he is, I'm sorry to, to burst your bubble. He's not. Um, and I'm gonna regret this in two years when season two comes out, Brian, but
Speaker 3 00:37:19 <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:37:19 Do we have time for that? One thing I mentioned in the pre-show?
Speaker 1 00:37:23 We always have time <laugh> give.
Speaker 2 00:37:24 Okay. So the thing I was mentioning before is, um, this may have been a misunderstanding on my part, but that there was a chance that the cure, not that it was a farce, but that they were gonna fail. So losing Ellie would've been for nothing. Mm-hmm. And that Joel ultimately did the right decision because the firefighters didn't exactly know what they were doing. Um, and this may have just been a fever dream of mine, but it's maybe I I understood it that they had tried before in the past and had failed. So what do y'all think? Do y'all think they were actually gonna make a cure? Or like, do you think they would've succeeded, I guess is my question?
Speaker 3 00:38:05 I think Marlene said that they had, I think your understanding was correct. Marlene said that there had been many attempts at, at a vaccine or a cure or so or something to fix the infected and protect everyone else. And you know, there there's like snake oil. There's a lot of, um, a lot of false peddling of hope there. And, you know, that was part of why the fact that she believed in Ellie was so, um, like so convincing to folks that, that she was the real deal. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1 00:38:36 No, I think that there's definitely truth to that. I think the one thing that comes to mind though is that if Marlene did not believe that there was a chance, I don't think she would've given up her best friend's daughter. Right? So I think that part of her truly believed that, or wanted to believe it, but it was also a very selfish move. It was a selfish game. Um, they
Speaker 2 00:38:57 Didn't even ask her. They just grabbed Ellie drugged her and they're like, all right, we got, you know, like you could tell right there where Joel woke up in the hospital, where is she? Like, there was no consent on Ellie's part, even if in her head she had wanted to do it. Do you think Ellie would've gone through if she know, knew she would die from it?
Speaker 3 00:39:14 In some ways it kind of parallels that opening in the pilot with Fedra, where Fedra has the kid come in and they lie to the kid. They, they test him. They, you know, he, he's infected and they say he's gonna get all the toys he wants. Life's gonna be great. And they, they said something's like the fireflies said something to Ellie essentially that, you know, things were gonna be wonderful. She'd come out of this. And, you know, the fireflies are kind of showing they're not necessarily better than Fedra in that way.
Speaker 1 00:39:44 No, absolutely not.
Speaker 2 00:39:45 Good observation.
Speaker 1 00:39:47 And I think that part of Ellie probably would've done it anyways. And I say that because she, even though she was scared and she was snotty and she was a teenager, she wanted what was best for the world and she had already lost so much. I think she would've given up everything just to do it. But you're right, she, she didn't get a say in it and they just, they just did it without her. And I loved, I knew exactly what was gonna happen and I was like, Jill's gonna stand up and, and save her, because he really truly realized that that was his, his new daughter. And I think Ellie needed that. I think Ellie needed her family. But I think if, if push came to show up, Ellie would've given it up.
Speaker 2 00:40:25 I was gonna say, I, I'd agree up until about episode six when she tried to say, you know, help Sam out. I'd say by then, once she got like the establishment of relationship with other people and then she got that close to Joel, that at that point she would probably have preferred to just live. 'cause she already kind of tried.
Speaker 3 00:40:44 Well, Joel didn't really give her the option to consent either, right. He just, you know, there's that moment where he wants her to stop. He wants her to, like, they, he says, we can just go back to, to my brother live and forget all about this. And she says, no, she's gotta do the right thing. But he doesn't give her that option again when, um, at the very end when he's spinning the tail about the fireflies, instead of telling her the truth about what happened, he's right. He is lying to her. Yeah. And I think, you know, again, that's, he is not allowing her to make her own decision about that. So
Speaker 1 00:41:21 Truthfully, he's not any better than the fireflies.
Speaker 3 00:41:25 I think we'll have that explored in next season. I hope we will.
Speaker 1 00:41:30 I think it's coming. I think we just, we gotta be patient for whenever that season comes. Um, we are running outta time as always because we like to talk. Um, but I am so excited that we got to have this chat and I can't wait to continue this conversation with all of you listeners, um, on our Twitter, social media and inner discord. So please follow us, um, at, uh, my Cosmic Circus and on our podcast Twitter, which is, um, I it's the
Speaker 3 00:42:04 Cosmic Cosmic Podcasts, I believe. Okay. And the cosmic circus.com
Speaker 1 00:42:08 And the cosmic circus.com. We always read
Speaker 2 00:42:11 The you can read breakdowns of each episode and Masterfully done by Vic and by Brian.
Speaker 3 00:42:16 Where can people find you guys too, like individually?
Speaker 1 00:42:20 Well, you can always find me on Twitter at at kitson 3 0 1. Um, ain't, you can always find my articles on the Cosmic Circus because they come out quite frequently. <laugh> <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:42:32 This is Anthony Flagg. You can find me at ruo and I'm always hanging out at the Discord ready to chat about anything
Speaker 3 00:42:39 And I'll add mine in there. I am ala Ruby and you can find me at T U L I N Rights on Twitter.
Speaker 1 00:42:45 Thank you so much, listeners for joining us in this episode. Um, we cannot wait for our next journey through the cosmos with you.
