Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 <silence>
Speaker 1 00:00:18 Hello friends, and welcome to the Cosmic Circle, the podcast for the cosmic circus.com. I'm ala Ruby and I'm very excited to talk to you today with some special guests about Shazam. Um, we have Brian Kitson and, and Victor Refu. How are you guys doing?
Speaker 2 00:00:34 Hey everybody, this is Brian. It's great to be here. I'm ready to talk about some Shazam.
Speaker 3 00:00:40 Hi, I'm Vic. How are you? <laugh>? It's just Vic. It's easier
Speaker 1 00:00:47 Now. Vic's a writer for the site and we're very, very excited to have him on the podcast. Um, he did one other, I think you did the Mandalorian for
Speaker 3 00:00:54 Yeah. Yeah, the Mando.
Speaker 1 00:00:57 Yay. That was
Speaker 2 00:00:57 Great. That was a good discussion. We love that one. So we're excited to have him back.
Speaker 1 00:01:02 This is gonna be even better
Speaker 2 00:01:04 <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:01:05 So we're talking Shazam Fury of the Gods, and we all got a chance to see it, um, over the past couple of days. Um, you know, I'm curious, what were your impressions going into it? Did you like, did you like it? Did you, did you hate it? And I'd also love to know what you thought going into it. Like did you expect to like it? 'cause there's been a lot of conversation and a lot of, um, a lot of stuff on the internet about it.
Speaker 2 00:01:28 Yeah, so I wanna start off by saying I liked the first Shazam. I thought it was a really good family movie, especially for, um, you know, going to see with like my younger nephews. Um, it felt more like the family friendly version of whatever DC was trying to do at the time. And so I had maybe quite a bit of expectations going to Shazam Fury of the Gods. Um, I thought it was gonna be something of the same caliber. Um, and I have to say I was mildly disappointed with this film. It was not my favorite. I think that it's one of the lower ranking films on the DC list. A lot of the jokes didn't hit for me, um, they hit for my younger nephew. So maybe it's still skewed for younger audiences. I feel like a lot of the things that made the first one great were missing from this, especially. Um, I think that we were missing a lot of, a lot of Billy, we got a lot of Shazam, but there was not that a lot of balance. And, um, yeah, this film didn't do it for me. I was, I was kind of bored throughout most of it. So I know that's a strong opinion and people are kind of, uh, some people are loving and some people hating it. And I'm definitely in the camp of not quite liking it.
Speaker 1 00:02:38 I'm shocked because Brian, you normally really, you know, like things, so I'm, I'm totally shocked.
Speaker 2 00:02:45 I, yeah, I'm usually, I can usually find a lot of positive things about things. I try to spin things very positively when I review them, um, because I know people put a lot of hard work into making these films. Um, and there was definitely some good parts, and maybe I'll feel better watching it a second time by not having maybe the preconceived notions of it being in the first film. Um, but it just didn't hit the way that I was hoping it was gonna be.
Speaker 3 00:03:11 Yeah. For me it was a really great movie. I love the first Shazam. It was just a very great family movie. Like, you know, watching it with family or watching it alone, it doesn't matter. It, it's just, it's just a great movie. It has a warm story, warm characters, like, I don't know if you notice, but, uh, basically they took the first part of the Shazam movie, the, the first Shazam movie, and just copied it and passed it, uh, into the second, the fury of the Gods. Uh, and by it, I mean, they copied the, the family relations, they copied the family status, all that. It was at the beginning, and they just past it here and developed it. So I really like it. But, um, when it comes to the theory of the guts, I was very skeptical at the, when the first trailer ca when the first trailer came out.
Speaker 3 00:04:07 And I was very shocked because I didn't expect it to be so chaotic, so, so very, I don't know if the word frustrating is good, but I felt that they mixed different genres and just put it there. And my, my opinion about it was kind of neutral until it, until, you know, think I saw it few weeks ago, uh, the, the first opinions about the movie and people were really, really happy of, of course, some of them were really happy that they saw it. And when I saw it yesterday, I just thought, okay, it's a really great movie. More, not the standard movie per se, but like a really good comic book movie. Shazam is took, they took it, they took him straight from straight up from the comics. So, so I'm really happy with it. I mean, there's a lot of things, just like Brian said, they, they could add it, they could add, uh, a lot of things. But I'm really happy with it.
Speaker 1 00:05:12 So my, um, I guess I have a little bit of a different perspective than you both. So I, my, my Shazam knowledge kind of starts and ends with this movie. Um, I, I tried watching the first one because I felt, okay, it's a comic book movie, I wanna watch it. But I'm from Philadelphia and I got really angry within like, the first five minutes of seeing just stuff that didn't make sense. And I, I couldn't like, divorce that from the movie itself. So I had to stop watching. Um, but I, I wanted to do this at try give this movie a try, you know? And I actually, you know, I think Vic used the word chaotic to describe it, and I think, I think that works. Um, the first half of the movie for me was very chaotic. It was just, you know, me trying to figure out what was going on and understand all of the different players.
Speaker 1 00:06:01 Um, I thought they did a, a good job of kind of bringing you into the world if you had never seen it before. So I can totally see that thing where you said they copy and pasted the first part of the movie into the second movie. 'cause I had to do some world building there. And I thought by the ha like by the end I was getting emotionally invested in the movie and I, I cried at the end. 'cause you know, I, I cry at stuff. Um, so I, I thought by the end it had been redeemed. Um, just that first half of the movie was really rough for me. Um, and I also, so I really like, like Zachary Levi, I loved Chuck. You know, I thought he was super charming and like, he, he was a good actor there, there was none of that in this movie for me. And I just like found him, like his portrayal of Suzanne really grading. And I don't know if that was the material he had to work with or what, but it kind of bothered me the whole time on the screen. Um, so that was a little difficult for me too. But yeah, <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:07:02 You, you know, one of the things about Zachary Levi that I think for this film is difficult is that, you know, with Chuck, I feel like he was very, he like, had a very good handle on this. I think the biggest problem here is that him and the actor who plays Billy, um, what is his name?
Speaker 1 00:07:23 Uh, Asher something, right?
Speaker 2 00:07:25 Ash? Asher Angel.
Speaker 1 00:07:26 That sounds right.
Speaker 2 00:07:28 Um, they're so different mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And there's not even like a, a chance to like, try to like rectify that. Even in the first film. In this film, Shazam reminds me more of who Freddy is as a character, you know? Yeah. He's not Billy. And like, they just kind of play off of, I'm, I'm a fun, I'm a child. I'm goofy. But then Asher's characterization of Billy is someone who's like more serious and like about family and like, there's like this emotional complex to him, and he is not all just like, about goofing off. And so I think like that to me is where a lot of this Yeah. Grading this came from me. It's because I, I couldn't rationalize the two different characters. And I think this is actually happening with all of the characters, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, the youngest, uh, sister, which they don't really say her name much. They only like
Speaker 1 00:08:22 The unicorn girl,
Speaker 2 00:08:23 Darla. Yes, yes. Darla. There you go.
Speaker 1 00:08:26 Darla. There you go.
Speaker 2 00:08:27 Um, her characterization between, she was like a grown up child, and then she's like, this really baby fi superhero mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I was like, it, it felt like that none of the heroes matched the human counterparts for a lot of them, with the exception of Mary. Yep. Um, and she
Speaker 1 00:08:42 Was just the same character, even, you know, she was the same as a child and as an adult, because, you know, there wasn't that much of a difference.
Speaker 2 00:08:50 Right. And so I think like that, like you could, that was a little bit easier to like, see and understand the rest of it. Um, really kind of got to me this film, and I found myself like this Zachary Levi was a miscast for the role of Shazam.
Speaker 1 00:09:08 So I, I I think you nailed it. I think actually that's, that's probably what that perfectly encapsulates the problem that I had with, you know, that disconnect. And I think, um, you know, I keep thinking about Freaky Friday with Jamie Lee Curtis mm-hmm. <affirmative> and Lindsay Lohan. And I think if it had been a situation like that, if maybe the, the adult characterization had kind of matched Billy A. Little bit more, that would've been better. Because like you said, Billy as a, as a child seemed much more serious and, and a little bit more grounded than like, super immature Billy as, as an adult, even though he is really just a child. Like they didn't feel like the same person. Whereas in Freaky Friday, they are very clearly, the actors are very clearly playing the same character, but just in, you know, that different body <laugh>, um,
Speaker 3 00:09:55 It's very problematic I think. Mm-hmm. Because when, you know Shazam from the comics, he is always childish. And if you saw Young Justice, he is like this all the time. Even when he grew up, even when Billy is, I think he was in his mid twenties in season three or four, and when he changes into Shazam, he's, he still looks the same. So, so I think it's a very problematic thing to ride both Billy and Shazam as the same person, even though, you know, even though they should be.
Speaker 1 00:10:29 Yeah. So in the comic center, you saying that they basically, they have the same personality, it's just, you know, different bodies then?
Speaker 3 00:10:37 Yeah. Very often because, um, in public, Billy acts like he's mature, like he's a very responsible person sometimes, but his Shazam, you know, he doesn't know the limit.
Speaker 1 00:10:49 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Speaker 3 00:10:50 So, so yeah. So he's childish. Always, almost always.
Speaker 1 00:10:56 So, given, given our thoughts and given, you know, you guys thoughts on, on the character, you know, so this is the second movie in, in the Shazam, I guess you could call it a franchise, I don't know what it is yet. Um, do you wanna see more Shazam movies? Do you wanna see more of the character? Do you think they can salvage him?
Speaker 2 00:11:15 So I had a, I had this thought. I, you know, I went to go see this with my sister Luna. Um, and as we were leaving, I said, I think that if they do the same thing that they did for Mary, that there's a future for this series. When Mary became 18, they kept the same actress. And when they were doing some interviews, um, I, and I could maybe be misinterpreting it, it was the idea that now that she's an adult, she's the same hero that she wa like, she doesn't have to change, she's a hero. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so I was thinking in my head, if they did this with Asher Angel and they just, now that he is about to turn 18, um, they could just h him up and he could become Shazam. I think that would be the better choice of a future for this and get rid of Zachary Levi <laugh>. And it sounds like I'm hating Zachary Levi, I want you to know, I don't hate him <laugh>, I just don't think he's right for this part. And I think that there's a better future forward. I think it's, if you're gonna keep him aged up and you're not gonna recast and do a whole reboot with the new world and get like younger children, um, it's time to do the same thing that we did to Mary. That's just, I know that's controversial.
Speaker 3 00:12:25 Yeah. It's kind of controversial because, you know, when, when they change into Shazam, uh, it's meant to, you know, to represent their full potential. So I think it's better to cast, uh, Zach Levi as Billy instead of aging up Usher. So, so, so that would work with the law and all of that. I think it would be more, you know, more fitting or Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:12:52 Yeah. But he's like 40 <laugh>. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:12:55 He, he's like a very, and, and this, he just seem comes, plays very old, even though he's got like immature dialogue. He just, and that sounds terrible. Um, interesting. I, you know, I think too, one of the problems if you just get rid of him entirely, when you have like a big star name and I guess, I guess Zachary Levi is now a big star name because of Chuck and, and everything else. Like, you expect that to be, um, helping the box office and, you know, you can say it either did or didn't with, with Shazam, um, in this particular case. But I think if, if, you know, Billy's actor, I, I wonder if, if that would figure into their thinking if they would want Billy's actor to, to headline a movie versus versus Zachary Levi. Um, I, I kind of feel the same way you do Brian. I, I would like to see him, you know, take that mantle and just see what we can do with that. Because I think that's also, um, I like seeing a, a fresh face. So I, I would, I'd be more into that. And I, I, in this movie, I just wanted more Billy and like, I thought, I thought the actor could also play,
Speaker 2 00:14:05 You know, I think that one of my concerns too, and just in case we didn't have a spoiler, spoiler, everybody,
Speaker 1 00:14:11 We were Yeah. Spoilers, talking spoilers, sorry guys.
Speaker 2 00:14:14 Um, but at the very end when we had the post credit scene where he kinda gets invited, invited to the Justice Society, I was a little thrown off. 'cause I was like this, especially like my nephews and they're like, who are these characters? And one of them actually knew it was, they're from Peacemaker. And I was like, we're trying to mix this mature mm-hmm. <affirmative> series with something that was skewed younger with the characters very young. And I think that like, it just feels like the tones are not matching still. And I think that they need someone who's maybe if they want him to fit into a more mature world, even if he's childish, they need someone who doesn't have Zachary Levi's co comedic chops. I think like, he has a very specific type of comedy, which was great for Chuck. You know, um, or anything else he's done. I'm not quite sure what else he's done. I haven't seen him a lot of things. Um, I don't know,
Speaker 1 00:15:06 I don't know besides Chuck either. I, I love Chuck. I don't know what else he's been emphasized that
Speaker 2 00:15:10 <laugh>, um,
Speaker 3 00:15:11 Shazam. So,
Speaker 2 00:15:12 Yeah. And so, like to me, like those don't, those don't seem to line up. And so like, the future I think either has to be a full reboot or they have to figure something out or they need to get the tone right for who Shazam is. Um, I also was really confused too, that like, they didn't know his superhero name till the end of the second film. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because I thought that was something that was, I thought like they knew that in the first film and, um, I don't know, I I could rant, I'm sorry, <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:15:40 It seemed like something they just kind of wanted to play with and have fun with. Um, I thought, I thought they knew his super name or superhero name as well. I did like the, um, I think the original Shazam saying that he was called Captain Marvel. I thought that was really fun. Um mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I liked that moment. And what was, what were the other names for him? It was like electric Boltman or something like that. I'm, I'm probably butchering that, those fingers. Yeah, exactly. That, that was kind of fun. Um, but I, I didn't get that thread either 'cause I thought they had, you know, solved that. Um, I do agree with you that I think it's a tone mismatch and I wonder if, you know, that's part of, um, part of the issue with DC going forward. I think they have to kind of decide where, where these people live and what, where these, um, where these stories live.
Speaker 1 00:16:30 Because this movie was, I think it was geared, like you guys said, to be more family friendly, right? There wasn't blood and a lot of, um, like bad violence. It was, it was more comic booky violence. It was, you know, more, um, like you could take your nephew to it. You could take kids to it that probably aren't very young, but you could, you know, still watch it with them. And I think something like, um, peacemaker, like you, you shouldn't be letting a 10 year old watch that, um, or whoever's gonna watch exams. So yeah. It's, it's a tone thing.
Speaker 2 00:17:05 Were you
Speaker 3 00:17:06 Okay, talk Brian.
Speaker 2 00:17:07 No, I was gonna ask you, Vic, were you okay with that, with the mixed mash of bringing in peacemaker?
Speaker 3 00:17:13 Yeah, I mean, I left Peacemaker so I didn't have a problem with it, but when I, I was sitting with around maybe 20, 25 people on the screening, so I saw the, they didn't know who, who those characters are so <laugh>, so that was a very problematic thing, but mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I guess that since we got H b O Max in Poland, they can easily go and watch peacemaker, so mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that won't be a problem. But, uh, what's very problematic for me is that they didn't even try to, you know, to bring Gal Gado or or Jason Momoa for this scene because they should be, or maybe even Aldi Hoch since, uh, Billy is joining Justice Society and not Justice League. So <laugh> and he's the leader. So maybe even him or what was her name? Esa. Yeah, ESA Swindle. Mm-hmm. Maybe bring them and ask Billy to join the Justice Society and not send Har or Economists. 'cause you know, it felt like it was the last time, last minute thing they added mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So that, yeah, that's felt really inappropriate for me
Speaker 1 00:18:28 From what I read. Um, the, the director, I think David Sandberg had another post credit scene planned. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and like they, so they built this gas station that he was at. Um, you know, they had that all set up, but I think at the last minute, I'm forgetting who they were supposed to have come shoot, couldn't do it because of schedules or whatever. So Peter Saffran, who had a relationship with, um, with, with Har Court and Economist, I'm forgetting the actor's names from, you know, his time on Peacemaker called them and they basically showed up to, to save the day for the post credit scene and, you know, this, this elaborate setup they had built. So that was kind of, I think a last minute shoehorn thing.
Speaker 2 00:19:08 Part of me also wonders too, though, if part of it was, um, intentional because they still, a lot of the big names, they don't know who's coming back. But we know Peacemaker season two is coming and we know that one of those people is very tied to James Gunn, if not both of them. And, um, so I think it, it was a very calculated move of, we still don't know where the pieces of this puzzle are falling, but we still wanted to tease that this, there is a future here. Um, and it was also kind of, it kind of did appear like that was filmed way after, because Zach Levi looked incredibly different. <laugh>, he looked like he didn't have nearly as much muscle mass as some of his other scenes, but, um, he was
Speaker 3 00:19:48 After skiing with Saffron. So
Speaker 2 00:19:50 <laugh>, yeah, I definitely, um, I just think it was a, it was a weird, um, addition, but I will say this, if anyone can get Shazam right, it's gonna be James Gunn because mm-hmm. <affirmative>, he could do something along the lines of like a Peter Quilt type character who is a hero and has this maturity even though he's super immature. And I think that James Gunn, if he wrote Shazam either for peacemaker or, you know, the Amanda Waller show, or even for a Shazam three ql, um, he would do a really good job balancing that character and getting it right. So I do have hope for that.
Speaker 1 00:20:33 I think that's fair. So we've talked, we've talked a lot about things we, you know, that didn't quite work for us. Things that we kind of had issues with. Um, so was there anything in the movie, and Brian, this might be hard for you, that you really liked, that you really, um, thought they did super well that you, like you absolutely wanna see more of? What were your favorite things? Basically, <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:20:56 I am gonna say right now that there was actually quite a few things that I liked about this film, but the first one for me, um, was actually, um, Pedro's coming out scene and how, you know, they were like, if you have any secrets, say it. And he says it and they just all turned in and they're like, yeah, we know buddy. And like, that was such like this heartwarming. Mm-hmm. Like, it didn't have to be a big thing. It didn't have to be, we're all gonna cry about it. We didn't have to, you know, as, as a gay man, the trope of like, it has to be this big family changing moment is so overdone and it doesn't have to be big and changing. I think we need to normalize that mm-hmm. <affirmative> and the fact that it was scary for Pedro because he didn't know what was gonna happen.
Speaker 2 00:21:35 Adding the dynamic that I'm also a foster child. I could be let go at any time. These people have no ties to me and they still all loved him because they are a family. I thought that was super excellent and I was, I really wanna applaud the film for, for normalizing that aspect. I do also think that the family aspect of the film was really good. I think that they did trauma really well. We have, you know, Mary's trauma of not going to college and resenting that 'cause she feels like she has to stay there to protect the family. And she's shouldering that burden. We have. Billy's worry about having to keep everybody together because he is gonna lose his family. And you see the progression of him accepting Rosa as his mom. And I did cry during that scene 'cause I'm not a monster.
Speaker 2 00:22:16 Um, the family aspect of this film was really good, even with the villains, their family dynamics and how we have hel uh, Dame Helen Meen change sides in the very end because she realizes that Lucy Lou's character is batshit crazy and <laugh>. Um, there was a really good family dynamic and, you know, as a motivating factor, family was at the center of this. So I did like that. 'cause it still makes it partially a family film, even though it was maybe a tone darker than the last one. So those two things really stood out to me of things that I loved about this film.
Speaker 3 00:22:52 Okay. So I would say family aspect, of course. It's always important. I really love it, especially the scene where they're like, oh no, you're turning 18. You have to leave the house because they won't pay anymore for you. And in the end we learned that, uh, the father bought the house so they can all live in the, in the family nest. So, so that was sweet. But mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I really loved Freddy, especially in this film and his relationships with all the characters, with, uh, with Shazam. With Antia, especially with Antia. It was really, really great for me and I loved it. Uh, but, uh, do remember this scene where there, uh, when Freddie and Wizard are, um, sort of fighting the dragon for the first time and anti them, I really felt like it was some comedic sketch, but, uh, they didn't finish it in time. So there was some kind of missed opportunity there. Um, I really love the music. I'm the guy that really focuses on technical aspects and on the music especially. Uh, and it was really good. Especially I'm the hero. <laugh> such a classic. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, what more, Hmm. I don't know. I got, oh, I forgot about this. Suits. Suits are really, really good. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:24:20 Yeah, they were really nice.
Speaker 3 00:24:21 I love the suits from the first movie, but those nuances Oh, such a great, such, such a great lift. I mean, um, I think there they were taken straight from the Shazam mythology mm-hmm. <affirmative> in the theater, the whole, the whole past whole history. History mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, the middle Greek mythology, et cetera. And they took, uh, I think there were symbols on the suits, like the really small ones that you can barely see. But, uh, when it close up there, and I really, I really loved it, like mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it, it seems, I mean, I'm a big DC fan, so basic, uh, basic viewers that like, okay, okay, go, go watch it, enjoy it. We don't care. And it made, it made the movie for me. I,
Speaker 2 00:25:15 I definitely like how the, I love the suits this film. I thought they were, uh, improvement. I liked that they weren't so bulky. The la the last, especially Shazams and the last one looked fake because they had so much like, padding on it to make him look more muscular, to have that like tra traditional Shazam chest and stuff. This one looked better because it was just, it was more life-like, and it seemed more like, okay, these are heroes that are trying to like, move <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:25:42 I think, you know, the suits, they, they were really vibrant. And I think that's part of a mm-hmm. <affirmative> kind of a larger thing in the movie too. Like the cinematography, whatever lighting choices they made. I kind of appreciated that you could actually see, see the things in the movie and that maybe that's just 'cause I'm old. But, um, <laugh>, I feel like a lot of the Marvel stuff, I, I can't see all of what's going on on screen to necessarily appreciate it. And Shazam had this kind of brightness and lightness, and I liked that. I liked being able to see things in the background, like the no shazamming in the house cross stitch, and just noticed all of those things that people, um, you know, the set designers, the production designers, everyone put so much effort into building out this world. I, I enjoyed that.
Speaker 1 00:26:25 Um, like you guys mentioned, I really liked the family aspect and, you know, some of that, the humor was hit or miss for me, but some of the humor, like the pediatrician I thought was really funny that it was highly recommended. Um, and I also, I, I agree with you guys that I liked Freddie in this movie, and at times though, I felt like Freddie was kind of the, like the, the focus of this movie. Um, you know, it was kind of, I think we saw more Freddie on screen versus Billy, which mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, is fine. I, I just don't necessarily feel like that was the promise of the movie. Like, it's supposed to be Shazam, I'm not necessarily Freddy. Um, which is fine. Um, I really, really loved the opening. Um, you know, they're, they're in the museum. These two like soldiers are going in to, to see this staff.
Speaker 1 00:27:13 And I think there's a comment where the, um, the museum guy, I know he is a famous actor, I'm totally forgetting his name, says like, refers to them as guys and they take off their helmet and oh, it's women. And I thought that was so cool. Um, and I really liked that, you know, the family relationship between these women and also that there wasn't really a motivation having to do with guys at all. They were just, you know, women villains and they were just cool and badass of their own, um, you know, just of their own accord. So that was fun to see. Um, I also really liked seeing Lucy Lou. I thought she played the kind of sinister, crazy villain lady, um, very well. And I thought she had, I thought she, like you could understand her motivations. You understood why she was kind of, um, the, the most evil of them, I guess. So I thought they handled that well. And I'm glad she got to play that role too, because I know she talked about, um, how I guess it was 20 years ago she would not have had the chance to be in a comic book movie. So I'm glad that, you know, there's that opportunity there now too.
Speaker 2 00:28:16 You know. Oh, go ahead Vic.
Speaker 3 00:28:18 Yeah. I just want to quickly say that when I saw Lucy Liu, I had major hella vibes. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. Blanche, like, took straight from the Ragner, like almost the same character. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 00:28:32 <affirmative>,
Speaker 2 00:28:34 You know, what I was shocked about is that going into this film and just from the trailers, I thought that Helen Miran was gonna be the big bad. And that like Lucy Lou was gonna be like the forgotten sister. You know, those were kind of the roles that I saw it as. And so when it turned out to be that Lucy Lu's goddess was the one that just like, became, became the, the big bad and like took over and just was, you know, willing to kill her sisters, I was shocked in that aspect. 'cause I did not see that coming prior to this film. And once we started the film, I was like, oh, she's got a lot of rage there. She got a lot of anger. And the more that that played out, I was like, oh, wow, this is, this is an interesting take. And I loved it. She did a great job. So absolutely props to all three sisters. They did really great.
Speaker 1 00:29:19 There were moments too, I thought you could see where it was kind of building, like, I think Karen, Helen Mirren's character, like pulled her hair back and is dismissive of her. And you can kind of see that just starting to spiral for her. So I thought that was kind, those were kind of nice, uh, choices.
Speaker 2 00:29:36 Absolutely.
Speaker 1 00:29:38 Um, so, you know, we, we, we talked about some of the things we didn't like. Is there anything else that really bothered you in the movie? Things that you have to get off your chest, um, things that were your least favorites that you, you want the entire world, all, all 12 people listening to, to hear. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:29:57 How much time did we have? <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:29:59 <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:30:01 Go
Speaker 3 00:30:02 Wonder Woman mm-hmm. <affirmative> and that it's not gdo, but some random actress and they just put Gdo face and voice over it. Like we heard that, uh, apparently Gdo shot some scenes for Shazam before, uh, acumen two cameo. But what, uh, I think it was yesterday, uh, some people released the behind the scenes, uh, photos and there's some random actress dressed like Wonder Woman. So I wonder why they did it, why they even brought, uh, wonder Woman Back. I don't know. It's like such a missed opportunity for this character. I really liked the first joke, uh, when they, I think, yeah, it was, uh, in Billy's Dream. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> when he's on a date with Wonder Woman. It was really great. It was a really great joke, especially when Shazam showed. But after this, it felt like, I don't know, I was really, really disappointed with it.
Speaker 2 00:31:06 I agree. And I thought that they definitely, she would horned it in to try to be like, look it, we are a part of this bigger mall, you know, world. But it didn't make, it didn't make a ton of sense in that aspect. And I think what would've been better was to have a moment where the Gods, whatever Gods are still left, actually bestow the powers back to, uh, Rachel Ziegler's character. And then she gave the staff. 'cause I think that would have more emotional resonance with the film adding Gail Gda in there. And it wasn't even her, it was just, it was a really weird scene that didn't quite fit. And it leads to one of the parts that I had the most problem with was this ongoing joke about like, these young children being in love with older women. And like, it was very Okay.
Speaker 2 00:31:53 Normalized. And I just thought that was the wrong betrayal. Mm-hmm. Like the wrong joke to have. Because if kids are seeing this, they think it's hilarious or they think it's okay. And then we have a problem where we're gonna see a lot more kids pursuing older women when they are underage. And I don't know, it just felt very odd. And I, I, I actually credentialed a little bit with those and I was like, this was not the movie to have those jokes in. Not that you should ever make jokes about that, but not a family film where you're bringing your, you know, teenagers.
Speaker 1 00:32:21 Yeah, I agree. I thought that. I, I think if it was reversed, if it was, if it was a male superhero and, and a young girl, I think that joke wouldn't have been as acceptable. And I think that's a, you know, that that speaks to a larger conversation that we like as people should have. Why do people feel like it's okay to make that joke? And that was, um, I, I, I cringed you, that was totally problematic for me. Um, I thought that, I think Gal Gata Super or Wonder Woman, um, yeah, this felt a little bit weird too. Like, so are you saying that in that first scene where, you know, where we see in the dream, where we see her turn around and then it's the Wizard's head? It wasn't her
Speaker 2 00:33:02 No. In the last scene. It wasn't her.
Speaker 1 00:33:04 See, that's interesting. 'cause I had read that getting that last scene shot was like problematic. And the director had to direct her over Zoom and stuff. So did they just superimpose her face over a, um, a double then
Speaker 2 00:33:18 They deep faked it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:33:19 Oh yeah. That, that was weird. And that, that's even weirder. Um, I know that they, so they, they tried to use Wonder Woman in the marketing, right? I think she was in the trailer. And I think that was, again, to get people to see the movie. They seem to be very focused on trying to get people to see the movie, which I understand, and from what I, from what I understand to the Wizard joke, um, where the Wizard has, you know, has Wonder Woman's Body and, and the Wizard's Head, obviously, it was kind of a nod to the first Shazam where you didn't, Superman was in it. They had, initially they had intended to have Cabell in there, but they couldn't, so they just had the darkened, like they, they had headless Superman instead. So I think that I read that that was in intent to be kind of, um, a callback to that.
Speaker 1 00:34:08 So that was weird. Um, something that re that bothered me too was Rachel Ziegler's character. Um, so it was kind of instant love for with Freddy. And I know there was like that, that, so that's a trope in romance and you know, it works when it's done well, but I just felt like that she's, she's 6,000 years old, she's seen some stuff. Why is she like, falling in love and, and risking everything, this relationship with her sisters to be with this teenage boy? That really bothered me. Um, and I just didn't, I didn't get that instant love there and I thought was weird. So yeah, <laugh>.
Speaker 3 00:34:46 Yeah, it was weird. Really weird for me to, I mean, when I saw it for the first time, I mean, I thought it was just a, a ruse from her. She was just trying to, you know, to force Fred to, I don't know, to sell, sell out Shazam or something. But in the end, when she lost her powers, and I mean <laugh>, she reunited with Freddy, I thought, okay, I mean, if she lost her powers and she was meant to become human for the rest of her life, it was okay. Uh, it was acceptable, it would work for me. But when she got her powers back, I mean, just immortal again, so, so like what, in 50, 60 years, Freddy will die and she'll look for another teenage boy or something. She, she, it'll be Steve Trevor all over again. <laugh> <laugh>. And which mentioned about the, the headless ka headless Superman. It would work with Wonder Woman if, uh, they didn't include her at the end. The headless superheroes would work for me. It, it would be such a fun thing for Shazam, like, you know, it would be his, this se this franchise would be recognized for including superheroes without Faces, without Heads, <laugh>. And it would be really funny for me. But right now, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:36:07 So what did you, um, so we, we've talked, you know, about the post credits, you know, what we've talked about, whether or not we think they, um, you know, they're appropriate in the context of the family film. We've talked about what it means, um, in terms of their filming. And I just wanna know, are we, are we all joining the Avenger Society, the authorities? So society, what, what's, what's our deal here? What are we doing? What did you guys think of that? <laugh>?
Speaker 2 00:36:35 Um, we're joining the Avengers Society because that sounds dope <laugh>, um, after Black Adam, I don't know if I wanna join the Justice Society 'cause they seem kind of, uh, not great. <laugh> <laugh> and who knows what's going on with the, uh, the, the, oh my gosh, the J ss a <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:36:55 Um,
Speaker 2 00:36:57 It's not great. It's not great. Um, ju Justice League. Yeah, no, I we're not going there either. So, you know, let's go Avengers Society all the way. What about you?
Speaker 3 00:37:06 Uh, I would pick course Avengers Society. I would not pick J s A because they let the, the God die. I mean, Dr. Fate is, is a God and they let him die. So no, I don't wanna die <laugh> Justice League. Uh, no. They're full of incompetent people. Only flash can save the world. They like, okay, flash, save us. Go back in time. So, no, uh, author the Authority. Um, I'm lawful good. I'm not a villain. I don't want to kill people. I'm not homelanders. So, so yeah, so, so Avengers <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:37:44 Yeah. I, I think I'm just gonna ignore them all and just go hang out in Gotham and just pretend none of it exists. Um, okay.
Speaker 2 00:37:52 Why Gotham Gotham's not exactly a great place.
Speaker 1 00:37:55 It's got Batman. You can't go wrong with that. I mean, you can, but yeah. The, the Batman now is Okay.
Speaker 2 00:38:03 I was gonna say, I have a, I have seen six episodes of Gotham Nights to argue that it's,
Speaker 1 00:38:07 Uh, well, we, I mean, we're, we're not gonna do Gotham Night spoilers, but that's another episode.
Speaker 3 00:38:14 What's there to Spoiler <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:38:17 And with that, where were we at? Not <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:38:20 <laugh>. All right. So back to Shazam. Um, okay. So I, I did wanna talk about a couple specific things and you know, one of the things I wanna talk about is the wooden dragon. Now I read that the director actually went to the folks who did the dragon from, I think the dragons from Game of Thrones to create the dragon for their movie. Um, what did you guys think of it? Was it, was it cool or did you, did you think it looked crappy?
Speaker 2 00:38:47 I actually was impressed with it. I was not, I was surprised with how small, small the budget was compared to some of the Marvel films, how well the C G A actually was. And the Dragon was, I thought, pretty impressive though. I will say that they had a lot of the scenes in dark areas, which as Drew Reed would tell us, means that they're trying to cover up imperfections a lot easier. Um, I mean, the whole final battle took place at night mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And the only thing lighting it up was the lightning. So, you know, I think that's part of it, was that there wasn't a lot of necess of it necessarily in the daylight. But it still looked good to me, even when it was, I had no complaints about that.
Speaker 3 00:39:25 Yeah. Also, for me, it looked really good, especially for the budget, just as said. But, um, I've got a really, really big problem with STR because it didn't feel real or alive for me. It was like mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it was just a statue. It was, you know, it was revived or something. And, um, so I guess it was okay, especially just as you mentioned, what Drew would say, darkening things up, covers the, the really bad cgi. I, so, so I think it was not the issue, it was planned, but I would wait, I don't know if some V F X artists, you know, debunked it or something.
Speaker 1 00:40:12 I thought that they used, you know, again, like Drew said, that that trick to, to kind of hide any imperfections. I think that bit of movie magic kinda worked well for them. Um, at least in my opinion. I think that I thought the dragon looked cool. It reminded me of the dragons from Skyrim. Um, 'cause I haven't seen Game of Thrones and I just enjoyed that. Um, I'm glad they didn't make it a fire dragon and instead it was a fear dragon. 'cause I, you know, my, my weird brain would have issues with having a wooden dragon that could fire, although I suppose the fire could catch anything on fire. Um, but yeah. Moving on. So another thing I wanted to just chat about briefly was the product placement in this movie. Um, there have been some conversations online that have called it a little bit gratuitous. Uh, did you guys think it worked? Did you note it as you were watching it saying, Hey, they probably paid for that? Or what did you think?
Speaker 3 00:41:09 Yeah, I, to be honest, I really don't have a problem with advertisement like this unless it's forced. Because when you pay for a, for an ad in a movie, you have to let the director to, you know, or the writer to perfectly put it in the movie. But if it's forced, like you, you need to force a joke. Like it was, I don't know, uh, Darla put Skittles in Mary Jeans. Yeah. Or something like that. I think. It wasn't po it wasn't funny. But when the unicorn unicorns showed up, it was really funny for me. I mean, it really worked. So it depends. But I really don't have a problem with a promotion like this.
Speaker 2 00:41:50 Do you know, I I, I did notice it and sometimes it kind of brought me out of the film. But the reason why is because, I don't know if you guys remember the show Bones, but Bones did it all the time with their car. And they're like, look at this cool feature on this car. And they would stop and they'd like, touch the screen <laugh>. And so for me, when they would, they did the Gatorade and they did the Skittles. And um, I think I did not catch this one Ila, but you pointed out about the hotels and I, I was just, but with the Gator and the Skittles, I was like, they mentioned Gatorade a few times. They mentioned Skittles. They made it a part of the story, which it didn't really work. And so I was just like, you're trying to shoehorn these in because obviously you needed money for a budget because your studio isn't doing well. Um, it, it felt very shoehorned in and I wasn't, it was kind of annoying. I wasn't, I was just like, they needed to maybe do it a little bit easier. Um, I don't know. I didn't like it.
Speaker 1 00:42:46 For me, the thing that really stuck, well, the really thing, the thing that stuck out was the Skittles. And I actually didn't mind it. Um, just because I remember the commercial, I, I don't remember when it was maybe early two thousands where they were talking about Taste the Rainbow and just mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I don't think I've seen that commercial in many, many years. So that was kind of a nice little, um, bit of nostalgia. And I also think it worked story-wise, taming the Unicorns with Skittle. I was like, yeah, I can see that. That makes sense. It's a comic book. Um, something that was interesting to me is, so the final battle happened at Citizens Bank Park in Philadelphia. I've been to Citizens Bank Park many, many times. So as I was, as they were going around the stadium, I was like looking, seeing what advertisements were on the wall and trying to figure out, okay, who's actually paid for, for their thing to be included in there. And I think I saw NovaCare and then some other fake brands. So that was kind of noticeable for me. Um, but yeah,
Speaker 2 00:43:46 I didn't think about that one.
Speaker 1 00:43:48 Yeah. And I mean, I have many other thoughts about the stadium and how like, okay, you're actually filming in the stadium, but then why are you making it not look anywhere like where the stadium is? But that's just me being an angry Philadelphian and we don't need to talk about that now 'cause we're gonna run out of time. Yeah, I
Speaker 3 00:44:04 Mean that looks like the same, the same case scenario as with Marvel movies. You should in Atlanta to look at like New York. Yeah. New York, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:44:13 Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 00:44:13 <affirmative>. Yeah. Um, I wanna also ask about Steve. Did you guys like Steve?
Speaker 2 00:44:20 I love Steve. He was probably the best part of the film for me. He was just the one part when he shrugged, I literally lost it. I was like crying, laughing so hard. <laugh>, he was just like such a sassy little pen. And, um, I wanted more than him. However, I think that they took the writing of the letter jokes a little too far mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but besides that, Steve himself was awesome. Like when Helen and Miran was reading the letter that Steve wrote, that was hilarious that 'cause that was the first time we really had that, um, that gag. I thought it, I thought it was a great addition. <laugh>.
Speaker 3 00:44:54 Yeah. It was very funny. I mean, it was just simple joke, but, but it worked.
Speaker 1 00:45:01 Yeah. It's hard not to like Steve. Um, I do think though, like, like you said, Brian, I think that maybe they took it a little bit too far when they kept having him like write literally, apparently they've never heard of proofreading. Um,
Speaker 2 00:45:14 But yeah, it also brings up one other question though too. Um, you know, with Billy talking about how they all had to do it together and not at all, why were two of the individuals able to like, walk away so much that one found a secret library and one was cataloging doors. It, that, that felt a little interesting to me. 'cause it's like, if you're all being Suzanne together in that room, how'd you find the Secret Library? Nobody noticed that the whole Cavern opened up. So that, that was my one thing about that.
Speaker 1 00:45:41 Yeah. They did seem to know about the doors though. They, they, yes. Seemed to know that that was his hobby and his thing. And it, it reminded me of Monsters Inc. So that was fun. Um, and just seeing what the different doors did too. I thought that was neat. Is there anything before we, you know, we end for the, for the chat that you guys really need to share about Sam, any final thoughts, things you wanna get off your chest? Hope for a sequel? Anything under the sun?
Speaker 3 00:46:10 I don't know if it's enough time for me to share, share this theory that I had that I sent you about the se Wait.
Speaker 1 00:46:16 Yeah, it was a good theory.
Speaker 3 00:46:18 Okay. So basically, if you remember, uh, the, there was a flashback with, uh, Dr. Savannah in this film. I think it was in the first first two acts. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, uh, there were, they had, uh, the suits from this movie, not from the first movie. So I thought why they didn't change them. Maybe it's because this movie, Shaza Fury of, uh, Shaza Fury of the Guts is happening after, uh, the event of the Flash, uh, after the flashpoint. And if, you know, if you know what Flashpoint, uh, does, then, you know, it changes everything and puts some things back, changes some into different, okay. Basically, um, those suits, I think they changed because of the Flashpoint <laugh>. Uh, and um, I don't know if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, oh my God, I I forgot the word. <laugh>. <laugh>, sorry. Uh, they're under Earth. Yes. Uh, so if the Flash changed the events, uh, of the first Shazam, maybe, uh, this Shazam ha this story of the Shazam happens on the, it is happening on the another Earth Stand of the Earth from the first movie. I don't know if <laugh> if you follow me, but, uh, no, no,
Speaker 2 00:47:46 That makes sense.
Speaker 3 00:47:47 It does. Yeah. What what I mean by that is that Sha and Fur of the Guts is now maybe is now in the new D C U and the story happens in the new D C U or maybe on another Earth we don't know. But, you know, that would explain why the suits were in the flashback where the ones instead of the old ones.
Speaker 1 00:48:06 Now, do you think we could see a connection then somehow with the upcoming Flash movie and Shazam? Or is that just too in the weeds?
Speaker 3 00:48:14 Yeah, I mean, from what we know about the Flash and all the other cameos or whatever, it's, it's really possible. Especially, I don't know if they, they probably cut the, the ending scene of the Flash, but I, I won't mention it right now, but there was some connection, uh, with the Cham. So, so, so I think it's possible, but I don't know what James Con will do. 'cause we still have a around three months till the Premier. So, so they could easily change the whole, maybe not the whole, uh, third act of the movie, but, but some of it
Speaker 2 00:48:52 Must,
Speaker 3 00:48:53 I get very confused. <laugh>, I get really confused right now in my own words.
Speaker 2 00:48:58 No, it's okay. I think it's a good
Speaker 1 00:48:59 Theory.
Speaker 2 00:49:01 As I say, I think it, I think it makes sense, especially because they never clearly tell you when this film takes place or where it takes place. We just know it's Philadelphia. Um, but there's no indication of like the, the con the whole con connective tissue to it. So I think that makes a lot of sense. It could be in the flash world, um, which would be interesting because of what we know, what we potentially know is gonna happen down a flash. What they could easily move the Shazam world away and reboot it without having to deal with anything. But, um, I guess that remains to be seen in a few months and we'll be able to talk about that in, on that podcast.
Speaker 1 00:49:40 Well, thank you guys. Thank you guys so much for being here and for chatting Shazam Fury of The Gods. Um, you can, you can read more about it at the cosmic circle. Do circus.com. Um, where can you guys find, where can anyone find more of your writing or,
Speaker 2 00:49:57 Uh, hi everybody again, this is Brian Kitson. Um, you can find me on Twitter at Kitson 3 0 1 and my writing at the Cosmic Circus in here on the Cosmic podcast. So, um, the Cosmic Circle podcast, which we put out quite a few times a month, so I look forward to always talking with you guys. Then I'm
Speaker 3 00:50:16 Vic again, and you can find me at, uh, Eric Salka on Twitter, and you can read my articles on the cosmic site. And once again,
Speaker 2 00:50:26 Sorry for the confusion, <laugh> at the end. You are not, if nothing was confusing,
Speaker 1 00:50:32 It made sense. And it's given us a lot to think about. It
Speaker 2 00:50:35 Sounds better on paper.
Speaker 1 00:50:37 No, I'm, I'm looking forward to reading you writing about it, frankly. So, no, he's,
Speaker 2 00:50:42 He's gotta finish writing about his Dr. Art, Dr. Who article first. 'cause I've been waiting patiently for that <laugh>. It's almost, it's coming. It's coming guys.
Speaker 1 00:50:51 So check the cosmic circus.com for, for all of our updates. And you'll hear us without the bloopers there. Or you'll read us without the bloopers there. I'm Ila Ruby. You can find me at T u L A n Rights do, uh, at Twitter. And you can also find us all at cosmic podcasts on Twitter. Have a great day, everyone.
Speaker 2 00:51:10 Bye.
