Speaker 0 00:00:00 <silence>
Speaker 1 00:00:17 Welcome to the Cosmic Circle, the official podcast for the cosmic circus.com. I'm Ail Ruby, and this is episode 36. I'm so excited to talk with you guys today. We're venturing into the land of pink and talking all things Barbie. I'm joined by two of my favorite people as very special guest, John Anu Day.
Speaker 2 00:00:37 Hey, uh, my name is John Dotson.
Speaker 3 00:00:41 Hey, I'm Uday. Um, I am a fellow writer at the Cosmic Circus, and I'm super excited to talk Barbie because I really loved it.
Speaker 1 00:00:49 All right. So, dear listeners, before you go further, there will be spoiler. So if you don't wanna hear about the Barbie movie, cover your ears with some oversized pink headphones. Or just stop listening here 'cause we're gonna chat about it. Um, so first guys, I would love to get your big picture impressions of Barbie. Um, John, you literally just came out of the movie like 40 minutes ago you said, right? So you're totally fresh.
Speaker 2 00:01:17 Oh, man, you had to pick me first. <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:01:19 We can go through dates. It's all right. I just like
Speaker 2 00:01:21 No, no, it's all good. That was the, uh, I had a rollercoaster of emotions going through Greta Grow Aways Barbie. It's, there's parts that make you laugh. There's parts that will, um, make you think mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, and I got a little bit emotional at the end of it. I really did. Oh, I, I think, uh, it does not surprise me that it's upset a lot of dude bros out there.
Speaker 1 00:01:59 Yeah. They've called it subversive. Right. Or there's like, there there's a lot of terms that have been thrown around,
Speaker 2 00:02:06 Subversive. How, I mean, it's just mm-hmm. <affirmative> like, it's, it's kind of like what you might expect mm-hmm. <affirmative> for them to touch on. But I, I think there's a lot for little girls to learn from the movie. I think, uh, uh, Ryan g is a Gosling.
Speaker 1 00:02:28 Yes. It's Gosling.
Speaker 2 00:02:30 You know, everybody's talk, everybody's talking about Robert Downey Jr. Or Oscar. I mean, I think Ryan Gosling absolutely deserves mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I've got a nomination here. It's ridiculous. It's so good. Um, I have thoughts about how Match Bugs 20 is a theme song. Mm-hmm. Or a misogyny, which is both hilarious. And I think somebody out there needs to write a full blown essay about Match Wilds 20 in this movie. Is it so out of nowhere that they chose that? And it makes so much sense. Do you know what I'm talking to you?
Speaker 1 00:03:20 I'm looking up the song. I know, like I know the band and it's, I'm, it's Push. Right? That's the song
Speaker 2 00:03:27 I wanna Push You around. Yep.
Speaker 1 00:03:28 It's, I totally get it.
Speaker 2 00:03:30 And I will, and I will. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's clever. It's, is it, I don't know what else I can add to the conversation that hasn't been said. I guess, uh, one more thought that I had is that it feels kind of like a reaction to Roe v. Wade because the whole film is everybody in this Army land getting things taken away from them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, all the women are getting rights removed and it's like, things are reversing in that, in that culture. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it feels like it's touching on a lot of things. And Yeah. I, I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 00:04:20 There's so much there in what you said and brought up that I wanna like, go deep into like, later on too. But I think it's so interesting you said that, especially with the end of the movie, which we're gonna talk about later too. Just like, I think that's like so spot on. Uday, how about you? What did you think of Barbie? Um, and I'm gonna ask you, 'cause I know you see movies, you see many screenings. I don't remember like your record for how many times you've seen a movie, but I wanna know specifically from you, did you see Barbie multiple times?
Speaker 3 00:04:52 Not yet, but I, I wish I had, um, Barbie's, like the first social thing I've done since moving. 'cause like, I just, I moved to Orange County like three weeks ago, so this is the place to be for Hollywood. Like, I've been driving to LA to see family, friends like every weekend. And there's this gigantic Barbie poster that's like on the side of a building and I love looking out for it as I drive by. Uh, but no, I do like seeing movies multiple times in theaters. I will go see Barbie at least twice and probably stop there 'cause I don't have my family out here to go see it with. But yeah, like, I'm, I'm dying to see it again. I thought that it was really good. I think, I think Barbie's really interesting because it's kind of like what you expect, but then it's also nothing like what you expect.
Speaker 3 00:05:38 I feel like some of the themes were a little bit predictable, not in a bad way, just in a like, you know, it's, it's good that a Barbie movie touched on that 'cause I would kind of expect it to weigh, but then the way it touches on those things is so like, out of left field and it's so sophisticated and it, it was just fascinating to me because there were things going in that I was expecting to see, but then the way that they were given to me was just like, I felt like I was in the mind of a genius. I feel like Greta Gerwig is just like insane. And so was Margot Robbie 'cause she also produced this mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Speaker 1 00:06:11 And it, her co her company is Lucky Chap. Right? I think that's Margot Robbie's Yeah. Production arm. And you know, this was, this is the, the vehicle for Margot Robbie. Right. This was like her first big thing that was just designed totally for her. I think it's so interesting that you mentioned, um, like there were parts of it that were what you expected. Um, and some parts of it that were not, because, you know, this is not just another toy movie. Right. This is not, um, you know, it, it does take that and turn it a little bit, you know, the first half and all the marketing, I think made you think that this whole thing was gonna be in this pink world. Um, you know, that, that was, if you weren't reading spoilers, that was kept spoiler free. Um, but we, we probably know, knew, 'cause we, we live for spoilers.
Speaker 1 00:07:03 I think that there were parts of the movie to me that did feel a little bit on the nose. I'm in awe of just, first of all, the production design, the set design, like that blows my mind. Like, it's so brilliant and just cool and like, I want to live in a pink world. And like, just on the surface it looks so fricking cool. And I think there are moments in the real world and moments in the, um, the, in the real world for Barbie that were really interesting too. But, you know, there was just a lot of unevenness for me. I enjoyed it. I really liked messaging, but like, I dunno, some of it was slow and that I feel like I'm not the negative person and I'm almost the most negative on Barbie. I,
Speaker 3 00:07:47 I do feel like it was a little bit weirdly paced at times. I guess that's the one thing I would say. There were just moments in the movie where I was kind of like, oh, like I feel like it's not hitting quite as hard as it could mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But to me, like the movie Knocked the Important Moments out of the park to such a degree. Yeah. That, that, like, those little bit, like those little moments of unevenness didn't really bother me. But to me it's just like, that's what keeps the movie from being like a 10 out of 10 for me. And, you know, but I mean, it's still like a nine and a half or like at worst it's a nine. So it's, it's okay.
Speaker 1 00:08:23 Yeah. I'm so torn because I think that, so I keep thinking of America for her as, um, monologue as, you know, the mom talking about, you know, the really, um, like how, how as a woman we're supposed to live up to these standards that, you know, that they've created with Barbie all about this big important monologue. And I loved that. But you know, with my film critic hat on, like, I'm thinking, wow, this is really just like telling me everything. It's not like I, I felt like it wasn't, I mean the whole movie I guess was showing me, but just that, that bit kind of threw me a little bit. John, you're like, I feel like you wear the film critic hat much more than either of us. Well,
Speaker 2 00:09:02 No, I mean, no, I mean, I'm actually, I'm curious, is it, did it just feel preachy to you, or,
Speaker 1 00:09:10 Yeah, I think that's a really good way to describe it. Yeah. It just felt a little bit preachy to me. And I don't know if it's just because like, as, like, so I'm, I'm the only woman here on a podcast with two guys. Like, and I, I feel like, like it's almost a lived experience for many women. So I feel like that, like, it wasn't especially new, but that's fine. Like, I, I totally get it. What she was doing,
Speaker 2 00:09:36 Um, I guess in when I was thinking about it, um, the movie is a mess. A massive hit right now. Yeah. May look $150 million. It's
Speaker 1 00:09:49 Huge. Right. It's like people were saying the box office said the box office is dead and then no it's not.
Speaker 2 00:09:56 And I guess my thought is she was on the nose because she is hugging to kids that mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, that may not be aware of Yeah. You know, certain like individual experiences of a leader mm-hmm. <affirmative> generation. That, that's kind of what went through my head, been watching it. Um, I can understand, you know, being older and going, uh, come on. Yeah. Yeah. We, we, we know this.
Speaker 1 00:10:27 I think that's such an interesting point too. Um, because like does a kid isn't necessarily gonna know the patriarchy. Right. You know, they're not gonna know what that is. So maybe that was kind of, I think that makes sense. Like that's a logical reason for that to be there. So I think that works in that context.
Speaker 3 00:10:46 And I mean, I did see some interesting perspectives from women on Twitter because obviously two men are not the best people to talk about Barbie. Um, I think Barbie
Speaker 1 00:10:56 Can talk about, not everyone can talk about Barbie. Come on guys.
Speaker 2 00:11:00 I was
Speaker 3 00:11:01 Of course. But, um, but like you said, like, you know, we, we don't have that lived experience. Of course. And I think that, you know, I saw some other women on Twitter saying, you know, I thought it Barbie was a little bit surface level. I thought that the themes Barbie explored were like you're saying on the nose. And I found it really interesting that someone responded with Yes. But that doesn't make it like bad, like it mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's still like a great movie. Like it was still really enjoyable. Yeah. And they're like, it's really important to have those conversations because they're like even stating something that obvious, like, I totally see what you're saying about America Ferrero's monologue. I thought it was great. But you're right. It's not like, I mean, I struggle to call it like a basic sentiment mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but it is kind of just like, that is like the base of what life is like for women. Except the thing is like, every woman knows that, but like, not every man knows that. And not every little girl knows it either. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:11:56 I think that,
Speaker 3 00:11:56 And so I do think that Barbie would seem a little bit surface level, like to some people, but I also understand why it didn't go harder than that. And I mean, even just all of the tweets from others talking about how like their 10 year olds are asking them what the patriarchy is mm-hmm. <affirmative> after seeing Barbie. And, you know, I think that that's what's important about it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, and again, I feel like for most people that I see, I don't think that like the, like even if they find the themes to be a little bit shallow, I don't think that that's impacted their enjoyment of the movie. Oh yeah. It's just that they've realized that, you know, they're like, they're like, they're embroiled. Like I saw someone say that. Like they know everything about like, feminist theory and they're deep down that rabbit hole, but so many people aren't even, you know, like so many grown women aren't. And so that's why they think the movie's important. And I thought that that was a really interesting sentiment.
Speaker 1 00:12:54 I wanna be clear too though, like the movie was so much fun. Like even all that, the on the nose, like it was really fun. I would be so happy if we had so many more movies like Barbie, maybe not, you know, whatever Toy Mattel owned GI Joe movie. I mean, I guess there is a GI Joe movie or was, but what, maybe not whatever the next toy is movie. But I just think that like, I really liked it as a comedy and just in general. Um, okay. So, you know, this is just supposed to be our Barbie podcast, but I would be remiss if I didn't mention Oppenheimer. Um, and you know, this whole phenomenon, right? Known as Barbie Heimer, Barb Heimer, I'm not sure which it is 'cause I didn't look.
Speaker 2 00:13:39 Yeah. Barb Heimer. Barb
Speaker 1 00:13:40 Heimer. Okay. Did you guys, did either of you see both of them? Did was like a double featuring going on? What's the deal?
Speaker 2 00:13:49 I mean, I didn't do that. I watched Oppenheimer almost a week ago.
Speaker 1 00:13:55 Oh.
Speaker 2 00:13:55 Our theater had some of the problems that a lot of people had, but where ours was different is they tried to project a 70 millimeter, uh, print on the smallest screen imaginable.
Speaker 1 00:14:13 Oh.
Speaker 2 00:14:14 It was just, it was awful. <laugh>. And I can't, I can't believe they did that. Repressed.
Speaker 1 00:14:21 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:14:21 But I did see both. But like a week prior,
Speaker 1 00:14:24 You would think that they would like shut all you guys to the 70 millimeter imax uh, imax wherever there's like three of them in the US Right? Or it's,
Speaker 2 00:14:34 I think, I think it's Tom Cruise's fault. No, I'm in on serious because like, no one has every screen booked for the next quarter weeks. I think. So Tom Cruise went on like a higher rate about trying to get every green booked before all this happened. So I, I blame you Cruz <laugh>. It's all your fault.
Speaker 1 00:15:01 Uday, how about you? Did you see, did you do the double feature or anything?
Speaker 3 00:15:05 I did not. First of all, I could never do two movies like that in the same day. Like that's just, it's too much. Like people talk. So I mean, so I, I watch every Marvel movie multiple times in theaters, but there are people that I follow on Twitter that will walk out of a showing and then turn around and walk into the next one that they have tickets for. And I just don't understand how people can do that. And it's like, I love watching movies and you know, I love just sitting around and watching tv, but I could not spend seven or not seven, like, six hours in a movie theater straight. Mm-hmm. Like that would melt my eyes. I would be sobbing by the end of it because like my eyes would be watering so much. Yeah. Um, and then also just content-wise, I said this in the review that I wrote for Barbie for the Cosmic Circus, but I wouldn't wanna watch Oppenheimer after Barbie.
Speaker 3 00:15:56 Barbie gave me an existential crisis on its own <laugh> Barbie already like destabilizes your, like belief in humanity. Why would you want to go watch Oppenheimer after that <laugh>? So even though I didn't do the double feature, I firmly believe it should be Oppenheimer and then Barbie. Yeah. A day apart. So that you have like some time to digest Oppenheimer and then like before you can get too depressed, then you go see Barbie, which will depress you in a little bit of a different way, or, I mean, might depress you. I don't think Barbie's guaranteed to depress you. I think it's just gonna make you confront some thoughts. But I do want to see Oppenheimer. I was honestly on the fence about it just because I was, I've been so caught up with moving, like my two concerns were like, set up my apartment and then find someone to go watch Barbie with. Um, so I, I did not have Oppenheimer on my radar just 'cause life has been busy. If I was like at home, like usual, then I would've done like a back-to-back day kind of thing. So I made no plans to see Oppenheimer. I was busy this weekend doing other stuff, but then I've been seeing all the tweets and I feel left out. And so even though it's three hours long, 'cause on like Wednesdays
Speaker 1 00:16:59 Over there
Speaker 3 00:17:00 I was, I was like, am I even gonna watch Oppenheimer in theaters? But there is fomo, especially now that like both movies have overperformed so much at the box office. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. There, there is more FOMO than I was expecting. So, and honestly, I don't know if I ever could have really skipped it just 'cause like you said, it's become such a cultural phenomenon. So I think I'm gonna try going tomorrow. But the problem is that like at home in Michigan, there's an imax, A M C like 10 minutes away from my house and I have a M C A list. So that would've been great. And apparently it's a 70 millimeter imax. Oh. Like, or no, no, sorry, it's separate. They have regular 70 millimeter and then separate imax. Okay. But here in Orange County, which is like an hour away from la, which is where Hollywood is, I can only find two theaters that have either IMAX or 70 millimeter within like a 30 mile radius of me. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm an hour away from the movie business and like every theater doesn't have an imax. So I don't actually know if I'll see Oppenheimer tomorrow, but I hope to, I just don't think it's worth seeing if it's not in imax.
Speaker 1 00:18:02 I haven't seen Oppenheimer yet, so I'm gonna sit this question Totally.
Speaker 2 00:18:07 Well I could tell you that it's for the format. I was not expecting the kind of movie that, the kind of movie that it was because there's a lot of, it's like the social network.
Speaker 1 00:18:24 Oh. Oh,
Speaker 2 00:18:25 Like a lot of talking mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 00:18:27 <affirmative>,
Speaker 2 00:18:28 Which a lot of people go to IMAX for big spectacle and you know, and explosions and action. It's many scenes of people in rooms. Yeah. So it's pretty interesting. But I gotta tell you guys, I feel like, like I'm not like an outlier. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> because I'm one of the only people that was like mixed positive on Oppenheimer. Oh. So yeah. Anyway.
Speaker 1 00:18:59 Now John, did you do a review on that? I can't remember.
Speaker 2 00:19:02 I did. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I did.
Speaker 1 00:19:05 So and where is that? Because you have to plug your work.
Speaker 2 00:19:07 Oh, that's, uh, monsters and Critics. Perfect. You can find, find that Monster and Critics awesome. Where you can go there and disagree with me. <laugh> as hard as you like <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:19:18 But make it polite and write it, you know, in a, in a nice comment because we can all disagree, like respectfully. You know, I'm curious about the movie going experience for you guys. 'cause we're all scattered around the country. Were people dressed up at, at your Barbie showing like, you know, there was this big thing with Minions movie that like, people dressed up in suits. You guys see people in pink? Was there any like cosplay?
Speaker 3 00:19:43 I didn't really see any cosplay, but pretty much everyone was wearing pink. I mean, like, probably around at at least half, maybe three quarters of people were wearing pink. I felt a little bit out of place 'cause I had no pink <laugh>. Um, the, like, the brightest color I had was, um, I have like this bright blue Guardians of the Galaxy shirt. So that's what I wore. But I was really feeling the loss of pink. My coworker didn't wear pink either, but like, she kind of had a Barbie outfit on, um, like a jumpsuit. So she still did better than me.
Speaker 2 00:20:14 Uh, there wasn't very many people on my theater because I went to the unpopular movie theater, uh, to go watch it. Not intentionally. It was just right nearby. Yeah. So I just chose one that I could find. It was like a mom and daughter there and I think a few of other people. And that was it. There wasn't very many people. Yeah. It's Monday. It's Monday. So,
Speaker 1 00:20:38 And it was late-ish, right? Like it was after dinner time, maybe
Speaker 2 00:20:43 Like five 30. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:20:45 It, it's right at that weird time for my theater. There was a lot of pink. There wasn't really any, any cosplay, but, you know, it's not, I don't think it's as limited just to Barbie. 'cause when I saw the Super Mario Brothers movie, like, I, I feel like everyone in that theater had something Mario on or like something video game on, um, even the kids and like for the Spider-Man No Way. Home movie. A dude was dressed up in Spider-Man outfit. So like, I think it's just fun. Okay. So do you guys think that Barbie's super box office success? John, you mentioned it earlier, was it like 150 million is just massive. Um, does it mean anything for movies in general? And, you know, I just wanna point out as we're chatting that the am t t p the studios basically have like, we're at a time where they forced the W G A and and SAG to Strike. Are movies dead?
Speaker 2 00:21:40 I think it is. Um, you know, I've thought about this for the past couple months. You know, you see, you're, you're seeing comic book movie after comic book movie just fall on the tape, like really hard. And I don't think movies are dead. I think what you're seeing is people being tired of franchises mm-hmm. <affirmative> and they're wanting something new. And if you're going, if you're not making something new, then you need to go all out. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> to go. It's no longer, people are no longer like, since the pandemic settling for sub subpar entertainment mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I think it is, I think tastes are different right now. Especially in the, especially in like during inflation. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So,
Speaker 1 00:22:36 But I'm glad you mentioned that too. I'm curious if, if you think that cost of seeing movies in theaters has anything to do with it. So like, if you're gonna go like, it had better be great. Um, versus do, do you think like, that might be part of why
Speaker 2 00:22:55 It's possible? I just, I mean, you saw it last year with like Top Gun mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I mean, uh, there was like a conversation that I had with other people about this online and they were saying that, you know, people were just tired of going to movies. Well if, if anybody recalls everything everywhere all at once. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> was a low indie film.
Speaker 1 00:23:21 Yeah. A 24, right.
Speaker 2 00:23:23 A 24.
Speaker 1 00:23:24 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:23:25 And it stayed in the top 10 for weeks
Speaker 1 00:23:27 Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 00:23:28 <affirmative> for weeks.
Speaker 1 00:23:29 And it was, so much of it was word of mouth. Right. 'cause it didn't have a big like Yeah. Marketing, but it didn't have Barbie's budget behind it. Right. There wasn't
Speaker 2 00:23:37 Yeah. Word the mouth. And it was like, it was walls to the wall crazy on ideas.
Speaker 1 00:23:44 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it was a, a good movie.
Speaker 2 00:23:45 It it was a great movie. So to me it tells me quality is the new hype right now. And we should
Speaker 1 00:23:54 What I think we should all aspire for that quality as Yes.
Speaker 2 00:23:59 So that's why I thought, I'm curious what you do things.
Speaker 3 00:24:03 So to answer your question, I don't think movies are dead, but I think that if we want things to stay that way, then the A M P T P needs to like pay their writers and actors. Because Barbie is the perfect example of a movie that like, it's just like everyone is at the top of their game across the board. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like the acting, the directing, the writing, everything is just smart and unexpected. Even though, like I said, like, I think some things were a little bit predictable. They were still unexpected. Yeah. So that's not, that's not even a criticism. It's just that like, oh yeah, I figured they do that, but they did it so well. Like, what the heck? And and in terms of, um, like in terms of what John was saying about how we're seeing all these franchise movies like not perform well, like Yeah, it's been shocking to me how poorly like, the flash, like the flash completely flopped.
Speaker 3 00:24:59 Like, it, it's honestly hilarious to me how bad it's doing at the box office. Like, I mean, I, I'm not a fan of the movie in general, but you know, even, even when I am a fan of stuff, like to see something have like a record breaking, like Bad Run to me is just like kind of amusing in like a Oh wow, that sucks way. And I, I kind of feel the same way about, you know, like Indiana Jones is doing like surprisingly bad. Like I was expecting that to do a lot better. And then even the new Mission Impossible. Like, I thought it opened well last weekend and everyone was like, oh, it's not good enough. And then this weekend it's like dead in the water. And again, it, especially considering what a success Top Gun Maverick was last summer and how that's a genre of movie that people really like. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I think it's really interesting that all of these movies aren't performing at like, the level that they're used to. And also they're all like insanely long, like insanely long running franchises. Like this summer we had Fast and Furious 10 and Mission Impossible seven. Mm-hmm. And Indiana Jones five. Like,
Speaker 3 00:26:00 Let's, like, like do we need an Indiana Jones Five?
Speaker 1 00:26:03 And don't, don't, don't forget Marvel 23 or 24. What are we at now for? I mean, guardians, I love Guardians. We're,
Speaker 3 00:26:12 We're up, well, we're well into the thirties at this point, honestly. Are we, um, end game was 22. Yeah. Wow. Um, I think End Game was 22. I don't actually remember. Um, don't quote me on that <laugh>, but it's like, it, it's crazy. Like yeah. Like, but even with Marvel, there's so many movies, but they're not all the same thing. You know, it's not like the 30th Marvel movie starring Robert Downey Jr's.
Speaker 1 00:26:34 That's that is true. That's
Speaker 3 00:26:35 Yeah. It's like the seventh or whatever. But you know, like, there's so much variety in there within that franchise. Um, I don't want to annoy any, any Mission Impossible fans as someone that's only seen like the last third of Ghost Protocol, but I'm like, what variety is there in that franchise? It's just, oh no. Tom Cruise doing the same stuff pretty much in every installment. Right.
Speaker 1 00:26:55 What, what I really appreciate about Mission Impossible is just how, like, how much Cruise and the CoStar and just everyone involved with that, like put their whole, like everything they ha they leave nothing on the table. Right? Oh yeah. The stunts with just, they, they give it, they're all, there's nothing like half halfway done. And I think that's nothing is phoned in.
Speaker 2 00:27:18 Yeah. I I definitely get that five. I can explain Mission Impossible little bit. Just a little bit. I
Speaker 3 00:27:26 I didn't mean to pick on Mission Impossible. No,
Speaker 2 00:27:27 No, no, no. Let's
Speaker 1 00:27:28 Talk about it, right? Because it's like, if,
Speaker 2 00:27:30 If, if you were gonna pick on anything, I mean this is hard. What the thing to be, what Guilty about, um, if I may, mission Impossible, fallout was one of the best. Like, I know like, uh, John Wick four mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it was one of the best action films of like the, like the past five years. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there's sequence in sequences in there.
Speaker 1 00:27:57 And we talked about spoilers. Can we we could you can talk about this. Oh,
Speaker 2 00:28:01 It's, I mean, I mean like, even if I said it to you, like
Speaker 1 00:28:05 <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:28:06 If I said it, watching it is different. Mm,
Speaker 1 00:28:09 That's true.
Speaker 2 00:28:10 I mean, he's hanging up a helicopter and it, uh, it's, it's insane. It's insane. There's no reason why Bomb Cruise is Zola right now.
Speaker 1 00:28:22 <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:28:23 So I'm a big fan of that one. I think the problem with the new one is the gave away the biggest surprise of the film in every piece of the marketing. Hmm. Every piece of it. It's that motorcycle jump. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 00:28:41 <affirmative>.
Speaker 2 00:28:42 And then why, why did y'all do that?
Speaker 1 00:28:45 Well contrast that to Barbie too, right? That was with the pink stuff. Like, that was all we saw on the marketing. We didn't see the big twist where they go, you know, when they were in the real world.
Speaker 2 00:28:55 Exactly. Yeah. And so anyway,
Speaker 3 00:28:59 I was gonna say on the topic of marketing, like I think it's so interesting especially 'cause again, on Twitter people are like, oh, when was the last time there was this much marketing for a movie like Barbie? And you know, people are like, well, you know, like Marvel does like the same themed burgers and everything. It's just that it's not as much of a phenomenon for other blockbusters because Barbie is so coordinated, so on point. It is everywhere. Like they, they spent their marketing budget very, very smartly and they were so consistent with the pink, like Barbie in general, but, but specifically the movie has like the kind of like branding and marketing that like, you can't help but be jealous of. And I think that that's also a really interesting point. Like, what did Indiana Jones five and Mission Impossible seven do to convince people that didn't already like those franchises that they were worth seeing? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Because for example, I haven't seen a single movie from either of those franchises and nothing in the marketing of those movies made me have any desire to change that.
Speaker 1 00:30:00 I am shocked, first of all, that you've never, like, this is Brian levels of not having seen, and I'm sorry Brian, if you're listening to this, of like not having seen movies like no Indiana Jones ever.
Speaker 3 00:30:12 I played the Lego Indiana Jones video game when I was like 10. Does that count? <laugh>? Okay.
Speaker 1 00:30:16 Yes.
Speaker 3 00:30:17 Um, but yeah, I don't know. It's just like, again, it's like, to me, Indiana Jones five looks not like to me. You could show me a clip from Indiana Jones, 1, 2, 3 or four, and I'd be like, it's the same movie. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I mean, you can obviously tell that it's made with, you know, like 20, 23 techniques versus 1980 techniques. But I think that that's what this topic of like, people want fresh, original things come from. And someone also pointed out that Barbie had the biggest domestic opening weekend for any like, original movie, any movie. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> wasn't a sequel or a superhero movie. Um, I think it's
Speaker 1 00:30:54 The highest for a woman director as well.
Speaker 3 00:30:57 Yeah. It's the highest for a woman director because it's definitely the highest for a solo woman director. 'cause Patty Jenkins is like, was the previous record holder who were like 1 0 4 for Wonder Woman and then Anna Boden who co-directed Captain Marvel mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but Captain Marvel was like 1 53 and Barby ended up, yeah. And so Barbie would've beaten it anyway. But then final numbers on Barbie were like 1 62. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like, the way Barbie overperformed is crazy to me. Like just as crazy as all of those other like blockbuster entries underperforming in June. And again, I feel like it really comes down to the marketing. It's that it was new. It ran a, an amazing marketing campaign. But the other thing that I wanted to say is I, so I, I keep seeing that headline anywhere. You know, that it's the biggest opening weekend for a non sequel or non superhero movie.
Speaker 3 00:31:46 Um, but the other thing is that it's not really an original movie. It's it'ss. Barbara's one of biggest brands on the face of the earth. There are like, there are probably more Barbie movies than Marvel movies. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like, just 'cause they're direct to video. It's like, like those Barbie movies had a bigger impact on my childhood or as big of an impact on my childhood as I'm sure like Marvel movies are having on kids today. So I also think it's really interesting that, you know, it it, it doesn't even need to be wholly original like Oppenheimer. It just, it has to be good and it has to be new. 'cause that's the thing. Even if, even if Barbie is still on ip, it's still a fresh ip. It's not Mission Impossible seven.
Speaker 1 00:32:26 Now switching gears a little bit, um, I'm curious as to what you got. So John, you know, you mentioned Ryan Gosling earlier, um, and I wanna talk about him too, but I'm, I'm curious, curious, what did you guys think of of Margot Robbie as Barbie? Like, did she pull it off? Was there anything un like anything that was like, blew you away? Anything that bothered
Speaker 2 00:32:51 You? I mean, I mean, the role doesn't really require a lot, but I do think the last 20 minutes it, ah, man. Whew. Okay. So mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, it, there's, um, conversation between her and Root, the, the maker, you know, which has, uh, has a lot of spiritual mm-hmm. <affirmative> like parallels right there. But that entire conversation almost like made me break down. It,
Speaker 1 00:33:27 It's about the meaning of life. Right. That's the conversation. You're
Speaker 2 00:33:30 Yeah. Life and dignity and mm-hmm. Being human. And she just like slowly crumbles mm-hmm. <affirmative> as they talk. I, uh, that was great. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But I don't think the risk, risk of the film gives her very much to work with to give her a, um, like a blowout performance. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's just her requiring to be Barbie. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> for most of men. They give Ken a lot to do
Speaker 1 00:34:04 <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:34:05 And they don't give her very much to do until the end of it. At least that was my perspective.
Speaker 3 00:34:12 So, so I actually kind of disagree. Like, I do think that Ryan Gosling got more to do as Ken. 'cause I think that he just had a little bit of a bigger role. Like, not, not like, you know, in terms of screen time, but just in terms of like emotion. I feel like his emotions were bigger than, um, than Barbies. But I do feel like Margo Robbie, like, I, I do think she got like a lot to do because I think that even before like the big moments towards the end of the movie, I think she had a lot of subtle moments that she pulled off extremely well. Like to me, Robbie makes a bigger impression as Barbie than Gosling does it as Ken because she has subtler moments like that scene with her and, um, and the old woman on the park bench to me, like, I think that that's one of the most perfect scenes.
Speaker 2 00:35:02 I love this scene in entire movie. I love that scene. Don't forgot that scene. That's a great, yeah.
Speaker 3 00:35:06 This is, and Ken has nothing like that.
Speaker 1 00:35:09 This is a moment where she is acknowledged, like the old lady acknowledges that like, she knows she's beautiful and, and Barbie like, it's just accepted. Right. You know, and, and as, as women, like you aren't supposed to say that. Like, you're not supposed to say, you're supposed to say, oh I'm not. Oh, you know, like Yeah. It's kind of demur a little bit. Like, that's very profound to me. That
Speaker 3 00:35:29 To me that moment stood out for a couple reasons. First of all, because, you know, there is the whole thing where it's like beauty in society is not really something that's commonly associated with older people. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And especially in something like Hollywood where once you hit the age of like 45, it's like, okay, well you're aging out of roles mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which is just ridiculous. Um, and so, so there, so there was that part of it, you know, then there was also the fact that, I didn't even realize this until later, but it's like that's the first time that Barbie has seen somebody that wasn't young and beautiful
Speaker 1 00:36:04 Because everyone in her land is, is perfect. Yeah. Everyone in her except for weird Barbie, Kate McKinnon. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:36:12 But I mean, even, even weird Barbie is Kate McKinnon, like Kate McKinnon is still pretty <laugh>. Like you can draw on, on her face all you want. She still looks like Kate McKinnon. And so I thought that that was really interesting. And then it's, yeah, it's just the fact that she tells the woman that like, she's beautiful and it's like, it's so sincere, like to me mm-hmm. Like the word that best describes Barbie, the entire movie is it's genuine. Mm-hmm. Like, everything feels so genuine and heartfelt and like everything was so well thought through, but then Yeah, you're right. You know, instead of like Demurring or whatever the, the woman was just like, oh yeah, I know. And then laughed and then that was the end of it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so to me, like Ken doesn't have any moments like that. He's a great character and Gosling gave a great performance, but I do find it kind of shocking how like, no one's talking about like an Oscar for Margot Robbie. It's just like the afterthought of like, oh, we should give Ryan Gosling an Oscar and then like, I guess Margot Robbie because she did a good job too. And I kind of feel like it should be the other way around. Ryan Gosling did a great job. I feel like he should be nominated for best supporting actor, but I find it kind of shocking how that's like the only thing that people are talking about from the Barbie movie. It feels like everyone's glossing over Margo Robbie's performance a little bit.
Speaker 1 00:37:24 What do you think, John? I
Speaker 2 00:37:26 May respond. Well, Tuesday, number one. Tuesday. That's a very fair point. Very fair point. Because you know, when that moment happened in the movie, I even thought that was beautiful as well. Um, the only reason why I said that the script doesn't give her much to do is that, you know, 80% of the film has a lot of like, like Lego movie moments with her is kinda what I was thinking about. Um, where, you know, where the, where a lot of people tend to discuss him is he kinda like, is like front and center of the over the top mm-hmm. Performance throughout the phone. Do you all think it's unfair now that you pointed out? Absolutely. I think it's unfair. I think it's an unfair advantage. But y'all gotta keep in mind I just walked out of the phone. Yeah. I didn't even, I didn't even really have, it's on the digested. I literally rolled in the door, plugged in my microphone and we said record.
Speaker 1 00:38:32 So, and we are grateful.
Speaker 2 00:38:34 Yeah. <laugh>, I don't even like really have much time to process anything.
Speaker 1 00:38:39 Yeah. That's that I just watched.
Speaker 2 00:38:41 But that scene is beautiful. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's a beautiful scene. There's just a lot of moments like that, uh, throughout the mountain's, like little hutches of like sincerity mm-hmm. <affirmative> that just like hit off guard.
Speaker 1 00:38:57 And I think that that's the right word. And I think Uta you used it, John, you used it too. I think sincere, like best describes so much of, of these like the little moments and they're really deep and really like offer, you know, kind of offer like us as people, like a mom, um, a a mirror almost to think about and think about just things surprisingly deep for a Barbie movie. You know, again, you're, you're not expecting that. Um, and I think that just is fantastic. Um, so we've talked about, we've talked about Robbie and we've talked a little bit about Ken. Do you guys think Ken was a villain of the film or is it not Ken? Is it something else? Is it the Mattel execs or do you have any other thoughts about Ken that you haven't shared so far and Gosling?
Speaker 3 00:39:45 So one thing I wanted to say about Gosling just, I mean, I've seen people talking about like the whole, you know, the whole thing with like, oh, Barbie's a movie about women and like the thing that's getting the most attention is the man. Um, and I know, I know some people don't agree with that sentiment. I feel like it's a little bit true, but the one thing I want to say is that I feel like a lot of people defend that conversation, like all the acting conversation being about Gosling by saying like, oh, well he's just so perfectly cast as Ken and he's never had like a role this excellent. Um,
Speaker 1 00:40:15 But the nice guys, nobody apparently has seen the Nice Guys.
Speaker 3 00:40:20 Um, I have never even heard of it.
Speaker 1 00:40:21 So that's, that's Gosling's other comedy movie. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:40:24 Okay. I'll, I'll check it out. But I mean, I feel like all of those things apply to Robbie as well. Like Margo Robbie is a huge star. Mm-hmm. But she has never found her niche. Like we thought she found it with Harley Quinn, but she has not been able to, or I mean, it's not, it's not on Margo Robbie, but her Harley Quinn has not been in, in a successful movie since her first appearance. And, and I mean, yeah. That's, that's not Margot Robbie's fault. You know, there was a pandemic. Some of the movies just didn't land with people. But, um, but yeah, so I wouldn't, I wouldn't count, uh, Harley Quinn as like a huge success for Margot Robbie. Just 'cause people like me love her in the role. That doesn't mean that like, that's her niche. And I'd say it's the same for Ryan Gosling. He's also a big star. He's also been in a lot of stuff. So that's why I just wanted to say like, I feel like the defense of like, well, it's Ryan Gosling's, like Time to Shine. I feel like that applies to Margo Robbie as well. And on the topic of Ken, I do think that, I don't think he's a villain. I think he was like, he did serve the role of an antagonist a little bit. Um,
Speaker 1 00:41:29 Was it all for the horses? Is that the true It was
Speaker 3 00:41:32 <laugh> honestly, even that moment, it's like, I feel like that really, I illustrated that Ken isn't the villain of the movie. The villain is like the concept of the patriarchy. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because I really liked what the movie had to say regarding that. You know, like what the patriarchy does to women. We're all like, you know, relatively familiar with, but then also the way that the patriarchy traps men into like that cycle of thinking that they're better than other people or, I mean, I, I don't know exactly how to articulate these thoughts, but it's just that I, I thought what the movie did with that, like, with Ken saying that like, oh, I just thought like the patriarchy would solve my problems. Like his feelings of being inadequate. Mm-hmm. And then it didn't, um, I feel like, I feel like the Patriarchy was a better antagonist than Ken was.
Speaker 1 00:42:19 I think there's a guy in the movie, and I am blanking on if it's Arlan or Alan, just 'cause it's Alan Alan. Oh no, not the, not the, um, not the Barbie. Not that Alan, but the, the Mattel guy. Michael Sarah.
Speaker 2 00:42:33 Michael Sarah is,
Speaker 1 00:42:35 No, not Michael Sarah, the Mattel, the assistant. The Mattel exec. Yes. Who's like, I don't, I don't if he, so he, there's a moment right where he says that like, I don't have the power to do this. If I don't have any power, does that mean I'm a woman? And I
Speaker 3 00:42:50 Thought, oh yeah, if I'm a man with no power, does that make me a woman? He's the one that said that. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:42:55 Yeah. And I thought that kind of summed up, like summed up the, the villain essentially for this like that, that kind of thinking. And I think Ryan Gosling was like the antagonist and, and the vehicle for that to come through. But I think it was like you said more that thinking, John, I, I'm talking, what do you think? I'm just babbling away.
Speaker 2 00:43:16 Uh, I think, um, I think he's right that, um, the, the concepts of patriarchy is the villain because, um, you know, Margo, Robbie, um, Barbie and Ken in the film are innocent at the start. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then they get thrown into the world and that innocent is broken. The innocence is broken. 'cause he gets exposed to all these very unhealthy ideas and she gets, you know, people stare at her people. They do a lot of terrible things mm-hmm. <affirmative> where she gets in there. And I think kids, there's a very strong, which is why I was saying in the beginning, I think it is very good for her. You know, like I'm a niece. Like I'm a niece is like five years old. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I want to want to take her to this because it discusses what it's like to grow up. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, around a lot of unhealthy male behavior, male toxicity behavior. And whereas where people learn these terrible ideas where it's nurtured and how it, how people like Barbie pay for it mm-hmm. <affirmative> and how the innocence is gone right after. So yeah, I agree. Patriarchy is development of this. It's not akin to the ideas. I,
Speaker 1 00:44:47 You know, I did not think that. I, I just feel like we could talk about this movie forever, but I know we're getting close to the end of, of our, of our chat here and it's been wonderful. But guys, I have kind of a lighter question for you. Were there any favorite Easter eggs or references in the movie that, um, like made you laugh that like, laugh out loud? Um, I know that for me there was this Snyder verse joke that, that was so funny. Yeah. That was hilarious to me. Especially as like a nerd. Like I am. So
Speaker 3 00:45:17 I liked The Godfather stuff. I thought that like, film broke Ken was hilarious. Like that, that whole montage when they were like on brainwashing the Barbies, like from America Ferrera, like, you know, telling them like about women <laugh>, um, to like knock them out of the brainwashing to like how they were distracting the Kens. I just thought all of that was like really excellent. Um, so I, I guess that was like my favorite stuff. But I also really liked the little references to Barbie, even though I'm not like a Barbie super fan. I feel like I knew a lot of the references mm-hmm. <affirmative> because people have been doing so much work, just like based on the trailers and character posters. So it's like, I, like I recognized a Magic ear in Ken in like crazy Barbie's house because like, I had heard about him in one of like, these articles about the trailer. And I really loved Midge. I thought Midge was hilarious. Yeah. I, I wanted her to have like a, like some kind of like bigger role. But then I thought it was really funny how they just told her to like, get outta the screen every time she showed up. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:46:15 And Midge was kind of a really interesting thing too. 'cause Right. Barbie's been an astronaut. Barbie's spit, like President Barbie's done everything. But Barbie really hasn't been a parent. You know,
Speaker 3 00:46:25 Barbie has never been pregnant. Yes. I saw that. People said Barbie herself has never been pregnant. Barbie is Midge not like, yeah. Barbie's not a mother. Like Midge is a mother, but Barbie is, Barbie is everything. But, and honestly, I thought the commentary on Mothers was really interesting. 'cause it's like that whole concept of like, oh, you bring your daughter to Barbie and then you're sitting there and you realize the movie's about you instead of her mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I really loved that. And like John was saying earlier, like the whole thing with Margaret Robbie and Ruth Handler at the end, or Barbie and Ruth Handler, um, it's like she was ba she was basically speaking to her godmother. Mm-hmm. Like Ruth Handler is like God to the Barbies and she's also their mother. And that's, and then it's really interesting.
Speaker 1 00:47:11 And then at the end, in honor of that, she changes her name, right? She's Barbara Handler. Mm-hmm. Which was Ruth's daughter's name that, you know, full Circle Barbie had been named after. So that was kind of interesting. Um, and I know we didn't get John there on his Easter eggs or funny moments.
Speaker 2 00:47:28 Well first off, first off, I want to give it a shout out to Wheelchair Barbie for Yes. For reasons. For for reasons. Um, I still don't think Match Bugs 20 is just,
Speaker 1 00:47:41 And push,
Speaker 2 00:47:42 Lemme put it this way, I hate Matchbox 20. I can't stand them. So I think it's hilarious that they took a shot. Imagine just, yeah. I thought that was really funny. Of course. Uh, the slander cut, you know, that, that was a great, great moment. I mean, uh, I think y'all covered it pretty much.
Speaker 1 00:48:06 All right. And now we're down to the very end. Let's talk about that ending. John, do you wanna go, since you know, you had, you had some thoughts, you
Speaker 2 00:48:15 Um, I mean I might have like, you know, have my mission Impossible did reckoning with there already? I might have already gave it away.
Speaker 1 00:48:25 Oh, that's fine.
Speaker 2 00:48:26 The kin scene right before that, on top of the moment with the Ruth was kind of like a one-two punch. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, where Ken realizes, you know, there's a, a very strong relationship like parallel to what was going on at the, at the end of it where she says like, you could just begin. Like, you don't, you don't need, you don't need me to be here. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and I think is a, that's another important message for people that have gone through rough like relationships, you know, that have like feelings that they can't be themselves without the person they were with. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, and then that what that final moment just like between her and Red, like I, I don't know if I'm just sensitive I'm old age or, or what, but it got me,
Speaker 1 00:49:26 It was profound.
Speaker 2 00:49:27 Um, it was very profound. And, um, as you know, as, as it's been said already, it was unexpected and a lot of things that were expected. So. Yeah. Um, that's good. That about covers it.
Speaker 1 00:49:43 How about you today? Any last thoughts or things that you wanna share about Barbie that we haven't chatted about?
Speaker 3 00:49:49 I thought the ending was perfect. Like, I feel like that's like one of the best endings I've ever seen to any movie ever. Just everything with Ruth, of course, but then yeah, the final line, like, I thought that she got a job at Mattel, like, I mean, obviously you're supposed to think she's going to a job interview mm-hmm. <affirmative> 'cause of the way she's dressed and the way they're like, oh, you know, like good luck and everything. And so I thought that like the Mattel CEO e o had given her a job because I don't think that, like the CEOs were really bad people, obviously they wanted money, but, um, you know, I I, I did believe that he cared about Barbie, so I was like, oh, he gave her a job. How nice. He's gonna let her work her way up into the boardroom and then yeah.
Speaker 3 00:50:26 Then she's like, oh, I wanna see, see my gy my gynecologist. And I thought that that was like the funniest thing ever because yeah, she's human now, now she has genitals. Yep. And that's, and that's also like the kind of moment that I think really makes it clear how much Barbie isn't for kids. You know, like I feel like young girls will still get a lot from the movie, but I feel like anyone younger than 10. So I feel like any girl younger than 10, unless they're like wise beyond their years, and I kind of feel like any boy younger than like 11 or 12 isn't really gonna get a lot from the movie because it doesn't spend a much enough time in like Barbie land to really like <laugh> make it fun for like a kid that young. And, and you know, and with the, the thing with boys, the reason why I feel like boys would need to be a little bit older is because I don't think any 10 year old boy is considering what life is like for a girl. Mm-hmm. And, and maybe that's something that just needs to change in society. So maybe you should take them to go see Barbie for that reason. But I mean, yeah. 'cause it's like, if you think about it, how many kids will get the gynecologist joke? Yes. No. 10 year old boy is gonna understand that. And, but I dunno, I just, I thought it was so perfect. I thought it was like the perfect note to end the movie on and then the way it just immediately ends. So before you even have time to
Speaker 1 00:51:40 Fade to black, right?
Speaker 3 00:51:41 Yeah. You're like staring at the credits. And, and so many people that I've talked to and so many women like I've seen tweeting about it, have just thought that it was like a really perfect ending. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so I'm glad it's resonating with, you know, the target audience.
Speaker 1 00:51:56 And I think that is a great, uh, moment for us to have our own little fade to black. Uh, thank you all for listening. This has been the Cosmic Circle episode, whatever we said in the beginning, uh, and we were chatting Barbie. I'm Isla Ruby, uh, gentlemen, who are you? How did I get here? And where can we find your writing? Uh,
Speaker 2 00:52:15 Yes. Again, I am John Dodson. You can find me at John Movie Watch on Twitter. Uh, you could also find me on Blue Sky just in case Twitter. You know
Speaker 1 00:52:29 X You mean X? Yes.
Speaker 2 00:52:31 X is out of existence.
Speaker 1 00:52:33 We are fresh with the, with the news here. We are totally up to date, right?
Speaker 2 00:52:37 Yeah. So if I'm in there, I write for Cosmic Circus and I write for Monster and Critics. And I'll be covering Fantasia Fest all week.
Speaker 3 00:52:47 And I am Uday and you can find me on all major social media platforms at Golden Ninja 3000. I only write for the Cosmic Circus and I am not really working on anything right now, but I did just do a Barbie review and I don't do a lot of reviews, but I think it turned out really well. So please read it and let me know your thoughts.
Speaker 1 00:53:08 And, and again, I'm Myla Rab review. You can find me on Twitter at t u l I n Wrights, um, and because I just haven't set up anything else yet. Um, and you can find all of
[email protected]. Thank you and see you later.
