Speaker 0 00:00:00 <silence>
Speaker 1 00:00:16 Welcome back listeners to another episode of the Cosmic Circle, the official podcast of the Cosmic Circus. On today's episode, we will be discussing Marvel Studio's Secret Invasion. I know everybody has some difficult opinions, or some of us are trying to defend it, but we are gathered today to talk about it. My name is Brian Kitson, head writer at The Cosmic Circus, and joining me today is Ala Ruby Anthony Flagg and Uday Katara. How are we doing everybody?
Speaker 2 00:00:45 Hi guys. Ala Ruby. I am so happy to be here and I'm not hosting today, so it's
Speaker 3 00:00:51 All Brian. Hey. Oh boy. Hey, it is Anthony. I'm really excited to be here because, uh, it's three against one and that's always fun. And, uh, we don't always get this opportunity. So let's see what happens
Speaker 1 00:01:04 On a cage match. You know, <laugh>,
Speaker 3 00:01:08 I got you for one hour.
Speaker 2 00:01:09 I brought chairs, <laugh>.
Speaker 4 00:01:11 This is Uday. I feel like it is a cage match and
Speaker 1 00:01:14 I'm excited for it. Alright, so welcome to the WWE SmackDown Secret Invasion Edition. Um, and with that we're just gonna get started. So obviously it's been six weeks, six episodes, not six hours like they promised us. Um, and we're done. And we're, we're done with Secret Invasion on Disney Plus. So what is everybody's initial feelings about Secret Invasion? And Anthony, I wanna start with you. You know, don't, don't hit me over the head real, real hard, real quick, but give me, what are your initial feelings or your impressions of Secret invasion?
Speaker 3 00:01:48 This was probably the most forgettable thing I've seen in a minute is, is the first thought. Like, so my typical routine is wake up in the morning and watch it on my phone. I know major crime, but I'm laying there in bed with Kylo and then when I come home I watch it seriously and really focused on the tv. I didn't do that once. I just watched it in the morning on my phone, kind of just got it over with and maybe talked about it a little bit, but I mean, if that's kind of the reaction to it, it, it wasn't strong. Like the only real bit was, um, what, three weeks in a row with deaths. That was the only thing that really shocked me. And even then wasn't that great of a delivery,
Speaker 1 00:02:30 Just throwing it out there. You said it's the most forgettable thing that you've watched in a while. And The Flash was just in theaters? I don't, I'm
Speaker 3 00:02:37 Talking in just mar just Mark.
Speaker 1 00:02:40 Okay. From like
Speaker 3 00:02:41 Th Dark World or something, you know,
Speaker 1 00:02:44 I just had to clarify. You know, we've had some
Speaker 3 00:02:46 Some's Fair. That's
Speaker 1 00:02:47 Fair. Some, you know, smelly movies and theaters. You just gotta clarify. Alright, ILA, lay it on me. What is your thoughts?
Speaker 2 00:02:54 All right, so I have, I have a lot of thoughts, but I wanna build off of what um, Anthony said because I think for me it's so true and I, I can kind of illustrate that. So I went to watch the last two episodes of, um, of Secret Invasion, you know, this morning to catch up. And I'm think as I tune in, I'm like, oh crap, I need to watch the whole series 'cause I don't think I've watched any of this. And then I've looked at my, you know, my Disney whatever, Disney login page and seen, oh wait, I watched four episodes already. Like I just am not invested at all in it. Um, so I will echo Red thought that this is really super f forgettable until like the last 10 minutes of the last episode because that was cool. Yes. And I think we'll get into that later. Um, I was really disappointed by Secret Invasion, actually.
Speaker 1 00:03:49 Oh, straight through the heart. Twice in a row. Uday finish, finish it off Mortal Kombat this
Speaker 4 00:03:56 Third Times to Char. So I, I have not loved some recent Marvel stuff, you know, but Secret Invasion for me unlocked a new emotion when it comes to Marvel projects, which is just pure unadulterated hatred. Um, I have never felt that about a Marvel project before I put it on my rankings. I, I love the MCU U like even when the M C U was bad, it's still like a five outta 10, like quantum mania, five outta 10 secret invasion is the first thing to get a four. So I just think it's still wasted potential. I think that, as everyone else is saying, it's extremely forgettable and I'm just, I just, I don't understand how interesting concepts were executed so horribly that I don't care at all. And I don't think Marvel cares either, because they're immediately dropping all of these story threads.
Speaker 2 00:04:45 I don't know that I agree with you that they're dropping everything, but
Speaker 4 00:04:50 That that a little bit of an exaggeration. They're not gonna drop everything. 'cause we know scrolls are in the Marvels, but I think I strongly suspect they're dropping at least 80% of it, at least for the foreseeable future. And I think Secret Invasion just continues to be plagued with all of the problems of phases four and now five.
Speaker 1 00:05:11 You know, before we do go any further, obviously spoiler warning, I forgot to do that earlier. Sorry, everybody. Um, but you know, so we have three people who do not like it, and that's fine. They couldn't all be wrong. Um, but Marvel Secret invasions, I think is one of those shows that like the Eternals people hate it now and when they come back to it in a year, it's going to be
Speaker 1 00:05:35 Exaggerated. How much they love it Now. Everybody dissed the Eternals when it first came out and now everyone on Twitter's just talking about how it's the greatest, the greatest film and the best thing they've ever seen. And I think it's one of those things that it's such a change from the tone and that we've had of the M C U up to this point that everybody has been begging for a change. And then when there was so much of a change, everybody's like, whoa, buddy. Not that much of a change. And there's a whole psychological theory I can get into later, but, um, I personally liked it. I, is it my favorite Marvel project? No. Is it the worst Marvel project? No, that still belongs to Thor The Dark World. I think I gotta rewatch the Marvels the Nomatic universe. So give me like a three months.
Speaker 3 00:06:23 Um, no, that's valid. That's valid.
Speaker 1 00:06:26 Followed closely by Ironman three, but for a different reason. 'cause that film Justice. Oh,
Speaker 4 00:06:31 Okay. But Ironman three is amazing and Thor two is better than Thor one. So
Speaker 2 00:06:36 I disagree with you on Iron Man three. I think it's a Christmas movie. It's like, it's a classic. Um, but Brian, I wanna say I love your optimism that you believe that secret invasion will be on Disney Plus in a year and for people to watch at all. So I, I just, oh my God. Love that optimism.
Speaker 1 00:06:54 Listen, it's gonna get
Speaker 3 00:06:56 Willow.
Speaker 1 00:06:58 It's not going anywhere. It's not going anywhere. Nothing Marvel's going
Speaker 4 00:07:02 Anywhere right now. Honestly. If, if anything in the MCU U was gonna get Willow, I think it would be secret invasion. And I also just, I don't think it's just the tone that people didn't like. And to me the difference between this and something like Eternals is that even when Eternals came out, it had a lot of diehard fans and people weren't like hating on it, hating on it. I thought a lot of fans were just really mixed on it. Like mixed negative but not, um, as negative as they're being with Secret Invasion. I just feel like every single week on Twitter, I only see one person out of the hundreds that I follow defending this show. And it's only hit tweets on Twitter or like trashing on it.
Speaker 2 00:07:42 Brian.
Speaker 1 00:07:43 That one person is me.
Speaker 3 00:07:44 I was gonna say it's Brian, isn't
Speaker 4 00:07:45 It? It's actually not. It's someone else. So I guess that's two people out of the hundreds. See
Speaker 1 00:07:49 There's two of us, believe it or not, everybody in my family loves this show. All of my nephews, all of my sister, my mom, everybody's loving this show. This is hitting a lot of, of the spy vibes that I've wanted for, from like, I don't, I think that's better with the spy vibes than even, oh, this is being a really hot take. No, this is,
Speaker 3 00:08:10 You're gonna say Winter Soldier, aren't
Speaker 4 00:08:11 You? I'm about to leave. That's America
Speaker 1 00:08:12 Winter podcast.
Speaker 3 00:08:14 Wow.
Speaker 4 00:08:14 I'm leaving. Wow. Okay. Winter Soldier
Speaker 2 00:08:16 A nice senior friend.
Speaker 4 00:08:17 Winter Soldier isn't even one of my favorite Marvel movies. I think it barely hits my top 10. But those are fighting words.
Speaker 1 00:08:25 And with that, you know, you, you all have hurt my feelings with your negativity. So you have to say three nice things about this show. What did we like about the story? I want to know Ila, gimme what you liked about it. Please come on.
Speaker 2 00:08:38 I do, I do have things that I liked about it. Um, yes,
Speaker 2 00:08:42 So I liked Gaia. Um, yes, because I think she, and it's kind of couched in a little bit of a, a negative thing 'cause I felt like she's the only character who actually had an arc and who actually had any growth maybe besides Fury's wife, if you're kind of going back. Um, you know, she started with this hatred of her father and by the end, you know, she had kind of bought into her father's, um, worldview a little bit and you know, changed a bit. Um, so I thought that was really well done and I, I loved it 'cause it was character focused. Um, I really liked the last, let's say 10 minutes or so of secret invasion and not just 'cause it was ending. Um, I thought <laugh>, um, so derma, um, Mulroney is, is fantastic. And he was President Ritz in this. Um, and I thought his little turn right where he started to designate off world folks as like enemy combatants or something that was a secret invasion I wanted for the entire series that was like classic spy, um, spy show, classic, um, paranoia. Yeah, there was paranoia, there was something there and I, that was like what was missing the entire time. But I thought they did that really well. Um, and I liked the fact that, um, Fury's wife was, you know, she was, she was good basically, right? She all the time she had with him, um, meant something and at the end, you know, they go, go off into their theme of light, which is like a callback to the comics if I remember.
Speaker 1 00:10:17 Absolutely. Alright, Uday, what did you like?
Speaker 4 00:10:21 I think the best part of the show by far is, um, Vara and Fury. I thought that Vara was an incredible character. The actress, I believe it was, um, Charlene, Woodard, Woodward, sorry. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, she did an excellent job and I thought their flashbacks were really good. I loved the scene where they shot at each other. I just think that like Fur Fury and his wife are like the best. I feel like it's, it's one of the freshest and best things the M C U has done in, in a little while. Um, but I do think that they're just surrounded by intense mediocrity and so it's hard to, it, it doesn't make me enjoy the show as a whole at all when I have to struggle through so much of what I don't like or outright hate just to get to like things that I really, really love. And honestly, I guess it kind of reminds me of Wonder Woman 1984 in that way a little bit. 'cause in, in 1984 there were some things that I really, really loved and then there were things I really hated in the same project. And secret invasion is like that for me. But on, on both extremes. Like I, what I don't like in secret invasion, I hate so much more, but what I like in secret invasion, I love so much more.
Speaker 1 00:11:35 Okay, that's fair. Anthony, come on, gimme the good. He,
Speaker 3 00:11:41 This is gonna be the one you're gonna be like, really? This, this is the one I love the fact that Rodie was a scroll.
Speaker 1 00:11:50 Okay. Okay.
Speaker 3 00:11:51 I, I like that. Good. Somebody had, somebody had to be a scroll, right? Someone, somebody major that makes you go, damn right. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:12:01 They told us about everyone else. Right. They're like, they didn't show, like, they didn't, um, show it to us. Like they just flat out told us everyone was a scroll.
Speaker 3 00:12:12 But roadie as a scroll was probably my favorite thing out of all. Just because the implications for what he is missed out on now that he's been gone for eight year, I don't know, I'm not gonna pretend to know the math of with M C U timelines anymore. But that's a good amount of things he's missed if he missed a battle. What there at Endgame? 'cause it's um, assumed that that was after Civil war. 'cause he was still in the hospital gown when they got him out of the stretcher. So that means he missed some major stuff like Tony's funeral. Now he's gotta find out that Tony's dead and
Speaker 2 00:12:48 His wedding. What?
Speaker 3 00:12:51 Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:12:53 And Tony's wedding. Tony's wedding and
Speaker 3 00:12:55 His kid. Oh, and the Oh yeah. And the wedding and the kid. Oh my God. Yeah. I didn't even think about that. He's missed
Speaker 1 00:12:59 A lot. Okay. Okay. You know, I think that there was a lot of positives about this show and you guys hit all of them. You know, Gaia is probably the best part of the show. Um, her emotional journey with her father and even her mother who you don't see, but you see all the emotion from this as a psychologist. That first episode, I ate that up. That was fantastic. Um, Amelia Clark, fantastic actors, she killed it. I know that she's kind of one of those actresses that is in projects that you either love or you hate. There's not a lot of middle ground, so of course it's gonna be divisive. Um, but I thought she was fantastic and I loved the le Final Battle and the catharsis that she gets from killing graphic. I love the superpowers. I know that some people are making fun of like the tattoos of um, oh my gosh, Drax and how that's part of his D n a I thought it was a very, it's a very easy and interesting way to get people to know exactly whose d n a is rocking it. I'm not gonna fault it for that. I thought that the relationship between Samuel Jackson, uh, Snick Fury and uh, Priscilla, uh, Charlene Woodward was fantastic. They had great chemistry. The, the scene where they shot each other, I actually got chills. Like that was fantastic. That's exactly what I see in couple's therapy all the time. <laugh>, it was fantastic. Um, bullet
Speaker 3 00:14:22 Shooting each other,
Speaker 1 00:14:24 I mean, metaphorically. Right? Yeah. It reminded me very much of Mr. And Mrs. Smith. Um, the
Speaker 3 00:14:31 Scene in the ah, yeah,
Speaker 1 00:14:32 Yeah, yeah, yeah. At the dining room table, you know, where like he thinks that he's poisoned and she has the knife and like mm-hmm. <affirmative>. It was like the, like tension, but it was a little more dramatic. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I liked the darker tone. I liked a little bit more adult themes. The thing that I have to say, which goes back to what Ila said, is that this show could easily be taken outta the M C U and you wouldn't miss anything. There's nothing that propels the story forward, especially if the threads of the scrolls aren't continued on, which it does not sound like on some of the projects they are. I think that you'll see that they will start putting them in there. I think Kevin Fey's a lot smarter and he's not letting his, uh, his shield drop with letting things like this disappear. But we'll have to see.
Speaker 2 00:15:14 I think Brian, you brought up an interesting point too with, um, and I think even carrying that on a little bit further with, so there's a moment where, um, fury tells Ritz in that he's gonna be a one-term president. I think that's something that we like, we know is gonna come to fruition, right. Because of Thaddeus Ross and, um, captain America. Is it, it's Brave New World now. Yes.
Speaker 1 00:15:36 Yes. Brave New World. Absolutely. I mean, that's gonna have impact. I can't imagine that there's not some mention of it Come Brave New World. I think that there's going to be some mention, right? I think that you're going to see more. I think that once we get into Mi six, which we'll talk about the future a little bit later, um, or mi mi 13, depending on which, um, iteration they do, um, it's gonna be very important. I don't think that Sonya and I don't think that, uh, Gaia are going anywhere. I wish though they would've connected Gaia. I wanna know who her person is. 'cause I feel like there's a bigger story there. And I don't know if that was once filmed and taken out or, um, if that was just left on the cutting room floor of
Speaker 2 00:16:21 The writing. Do you mean do you mean the person, what if
Speaker 3 00:16:23 It just doesn't
Speaker 2 00:16:24 Matter that she like took over the body for Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:16:28 Uh, I think it does matter. You don't have someone as big as her.
Speaker 3 00:16:33 Fair enough.
Speaker 1 00:16:33 Which, but now we get to,
Speaker 3 00:16:36 I imagine that, well, Brian, here's my thing for, for someone who had to work in the shadows and everything that she's been doing, wouldn't it make more sense to have somebody who's more inconspicuous rather than anything?
Speaker 1 00:16:47 Sure. Makes
Speaker 3 00:16:48 Sense. That's just senses my thinking in this case because she's been trying to get around and infiltrate and that's what she's done and she's been low key this whole time,
Speaker 1 00:16:55 You know? Sure. No, that makes perfect sense. But now we get to turn the part that the three of, you're probably waiting for the, the chance to, to tear this, to stress, the chance to say everything that's wrong with it. And Uday, you're so lucky you get to start first. Oh, yay. What, what did you not like about secret invasions?
Speaker 4 00:17:19 We're gonna need another like three hours for that. No. Um, no, but you have, you have
Speaker 1 00:17:24 Three minutes. I'm not,
Speaker 4 00:17:25 So I'm not, I'm not even gonna go into it. Um, there, there's just, there's too much to count. It's easier to say what I did. Like, I will say one of the things I hated the most was Rodi being a scroll. Because I thought that idea was interesting back in like episode two. I loved episode two by the way. I think it's one of the best things that like the M C U has done on Disney Plus. But it's just like the writing in episode two versus the rest of the series, to me it's just like so much worse than the rest of the series. And so in episode two, I loved Roddy's conversation with Nick because he was being a little bit antagonistic. But I thought that he was making very fair points. That conversation did not make me think that Roddy was a scru.
Speaker 4 00:18:04 And then after that point, I just, I feel like all the scrolls were so sloppy. I didn't like the espionage aspects of the show 'cause I thought that they were very poorly written and executed. None of the scrolls acted like the people they were impersonating. Both the Ross and Rodie Scrolls acted extremely aggressive and out of character. I also don't think it makes canonical sense that Rodie was replaced in Civil War as a fan. I hate the idea. 'cause I think it ruins all of the touching moments that he has in end game with Tony and Nebula. But I also just think it doesn't make any narrative sense because Ravi says very openly in this show that he only, he was only radicalized like during the blip when Fury was gone. So why on earth would they have replaced an Avenger with a scroll in 2016, which was two years before he was radicalized?
Speaker 4 00:18:54 Or he wasn't even radicalized during the blip. It was after 2023 because graphic was one of the scrolls collecting the Avengers d n a after the Battle of Earth. So to me, if they, if Marvel tries to tell me that Rodie has been a scroll since 2016, it's just one of the clearest examples I think of them breaking their own cannon for cheap plot twists. 'cause I didn't think Rodie being a scroll was well executed. It wasn't explored at all. We never even, like, we only see that scroll for like two scenes. One when she's in the shower and then one when she's dead. I just don't think it mattered. I think it'll matter in Armor wars. And, you know, if Roddy has missed all of this time with Tony, I'm interested in seeing how that informs his story in Armor Wars. But to me, if you're gonna be replacing Avengers, we should, we should like dig into that a little bit more. I feel like there's so much left on the table there and so much missed opportunity. That's fair. Aila, what are you thinking?
Speaker 2 00:19:56 So we've hit on a lot of the points and I'm gonna focus on one thing. Um, I think like Uday. So I think that, um, secret invasion kind of wasted Maria Hill and I think that, um, she was like, so she was a badass woman and I think that's, you know, that was very cool and one of the coolest parts of, um, like, of shield of all of that. And, you know, she died fighting side by side with Nick Fury and he mourned a little bit. You know, there was that scene with her mother. Um, and you would think based on their closeness, their professional working relationship, just their friendship, that that would've been a little bit more of a motivator for him or that would've like, affected him in some way even though he's seen so much death and it didn't. And I was disappointed by that and I was disappointed by the death that they gave her.
Speaker 1 00:20:54 Okay. I can't fault either one of you for those. I mean, those are all great points. Anything to add, Anthony?
Speaker 3 00:21:01 Um, I, I feel the same way but about a different character and that's gonna be telos. I'm very upset that he died in this series. Like really? You're gonna kill off these two. I was already upset about, you know, Maria Hill, but now you're gonna follow it up with Taylor in the same series. Like not not great here. Not great here. I was, I was pretty upset about it all.
Speaker 4 00:21:23 All I actually want to are Sorry. Are you done? No,
Speaker 3 00:21:27 Go ahead.
Speaker 4 00:21:28 I I wanted to comment on that because I think that the M C U has been introducing so many characters in phases four and five. And part of like, the problem I think with these phases is there's no crossover, right? The Marvels is the biggest crossover we're getting. It's between more than two projects and having like so little crossover since end game, when you're introducing three times the amount of characters, it's, it's really, really hard to follow. And also I think losing Maria Hill is such a shame because she's the perfect example of a supporting character that Marvel just stuck her in a couple scenes in a few movies and made us care about her and made her have an impact on the universe and on the Avengers. And to me, like Maria being killed off in this manner when they could have instead built on her more at the same time that the M C U is in introducing so many characters and we have no idea when they're gonna show up next to me. It just really shows kind of how far the M C U has strayed from its original path. And not in a good way.
Speaker 3 00:22:33 If you knew even half of what she does in the comics, you'd be furious, man. You'd be raging right now.
Speaker 2 00:22:41 I disagree with you though on the point that there are like too many new characters in these new phases and maybe we don't necessarily care about them. 'cause I think that with the Disney plus shows, like for me at least, Marvel has made me care about these characters. Like there ha there have been very character driven series like Moon night, um, you know, miss Marvel Wand Division and Loki, you can talk about them all, but they focused on like their, their protagonist. There was a journey, there was growth there and I, I really cared about them and found them fun to even Hawkeye found them fun to watch. And this was just kind of, not that it wasn't Nick Fury's story, it was a mishmash.
Speaker 4 00:23:21 I do agree with that. And I just wanted to clarify. I didn't mean solo characters. Like there are three times the number of solo characters as well now that we have Disney plus shows. But I was referring more to supporting characters or even just the fact that even just the fact that pre and game, like pre-phase four Marvel had done like the introduce brand new character in a post credit scene like shtick. I think they did that maybe twice with Nick Fury and Thanos. And then in phases four and five they do it with Lea with Eros, right? Thanos his brother. Like they're just Hercules, they're just throwing stuff at the wall and you can't see where it's coming. And there's so much stuff coming out that like, we're not picking up these threads anytime soon. Right? Like we saw Kate Bishop two years ago and we have no idea when we're gonna see her again. And to me it's just, it's it's just too much. It's
Speaker 3 00:24:15 Been over a year with Moon badly.
Speaker 4 00:24:18 Oh it has. Wow. And I mean, and a year is fine. Even two years is fine, right? Those were the kinds of gaps we saw in the first three phases. But you knew they were coming back like there was a two year gap between Ironman one and Ironman two, but you knew Ironman two was coming and no one knows if Hawkeye season two was coming.
Speaker 1 00:24:37 Yes. No one knows. Anyway. So I, going back to the what we didn't like, I think that you all have valid points. I think that, I guess the question then is at least my opinion, yes there was, there was faults, but how much was impacted by the changes that had to be made for global things? And we're not gonna talk about those global things 'cause we're keeping a light and airy. But like obviously there were things that dictated changes. The episode links reflect that. Storylines reflect that. How far do we think that goes, Anthony? What do you think?
Speaker 3 00:25:10 It's like going back to how many projects do we need versus how many do we have sort of thing. And, and this is one like I didn't feel like we needed it. So kind of going back to the formula, like looking at the multiverse, I'm sure Alex is probably gonna listen to this and be like, oh you fool his child. But I just don't see in any capacity where this fits into the multiverse and why we told the story to begin with. I
Speaker 1 00:25:39 Mean, I think it doesn't go through, doesn't connect to the multiverse, but doesn't definitely connects to the cosmic side of the M C U. And I think that's what they were going for. They're really trying to build out each level. You know, remember those Marvel, uh, articles we did two years ago where we were building out the different levels. They're trying to make each level important, not specifically each character important. And that's where this story comes from. Let's,
Speaker 2 00:26:01 This is like the connect connection of the cosmic and the earth level. It's like the mm-hmm <affirmative>, the merging of both in a way.
Speaker 4 00:26:08 I also don't think every project in a saga needs to relate to what the saga is titled. I see a lot of people complaining about that online. Like, oh, secret invasion doesn't have anything to do with the multiverse. I don't think that's why secret invasion shouldn't exist. I think what matters is if the project is good, I, I think what the M C U used to be so good at was making good projects that built on each other and propelled the universe forward. So even though there were a lot of mixed bags in the first few phases, they still propelled the universe forward enough to kind of make up for that. And to me, projects like secret invasion don't do that. But I don't think it's lack of multiverse is the problem. Um, 'cause every, not every project in the Infinity Saga had an Infinity Stone. In fact, I think less than half of them related to the Infinity Stones and Thanos. But they built up the characters and that's what's more important.
Speaker 3 00:26:59 No, I get that. I mean, not that it has like variance or anything, but I just, I'm having a hard time seeing where this fits the mul over our multiverse. Like the only thing, and here we go to like, one point we're probably gonna talk about here in a minute. I'm sure of it actually. I see it somewhere on the list. But it's how Op Gaia is. So, I mean, can she just show up and kick Kang's ass like in one go? 'cause like, come on now that's stacked.
Speaker 2 00:27:26 Is she Killable even though Ravi was,
Speaker 3 00:27:31 But is he dead too? That's another question.
Speaker 4 00:27:35 Yeah, he has extra Miss. Why couldn't he just heal that giant hole in his chest? But
Speaker 1 00:27:40 I think it also reasons that we don't know what's gonna happen. Like when you introduce the Harvest as they call it, what kind of an effect does that have? Does it wear off over time? Because you know, we, we don't know, we also don't know what happened with Captain America when he was 90 years old sitting there with the shield. Was he still super strong? We have no idea. And the fact is that she could grow outta these powers or they could, they could nuke her really easily by saying like, oh, the effects swore off and she only has mild powers. Or she could only do one at a time. Or, I mean, there's plenty of different answers that can, they could come up with, um, to answer for her being so op. But she was op I mean, come on. She had every power under the MCU U
Speaker 2 00:28:25 I'm gonna jump in with a question that's not on the list. I'm sorry. I just wanna know which, uh, power you guys like the most, if any, that she had?
Speaker 3 00:28:35 Ooh,
Speaker 1 00:28:35 That's a good question.
Speaker 3 00:28:38 The magic was neat.
Speaker 4 00:28:40 Ebo. Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, not, not with Gaia, but I liked the Ebony Moth thing. Um, and then, I mean, hey Captain Marvel Powers, who doesn't want to have those?
Speaker 3 00:28:49 That was neat too. That was a good little section because Alex was saying that apparently Emelia Clark was one of the ones in the running two play Captain Marvels. So she finally got her moment later on in a little nod. Like, I like that it's kind of like a little respectful, like, hey, so
Speaker 1 00:29:06 I do love the ice powers when she formed the ice sword and stabbed them. I thought that was pretty dope
Speaker 3 00:29:12 Blame. Yeah, that was pretty cool. I
Speaker 1 00:29:15 Mean, there's so many. What about the Dr. Arm? Nobody mentioned the Dr. Arm of how much
Speaker 3 00:29:19 They loved it. I, I missed it. Like I said, I watched it on my phone, so I don't know. I didn't see everything that great. I like, but, but the punch, while she was still in Fury form was really cool though. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> that was really awesome. It was just like, huh huh And then bam and you know, just <laugh> flying. I'm like, oh, oh, he sent a fly. Oh,
Speaker 2 00:29:37 That's gonna
Speaker 3 00:29:38 Be, I didn't even knock that thing over. Like, that was just fun.
Speaker 2 00:29:41 That's gonna be an action figure somewhere.
Speaker 4 00:29:44 Yes. I like the Drex arm because I feel like it's gonna be a meme. I feel like people are just making fun of it right now. But then I feel like people are gonna start memeing it for like when they're ready to fight somebody and they're gonna send a picture of Emilio Clark, like beefing up one arm, <laugh>. So that, that's why I like it.
Speaker 1 00:29:59 I'm glad that we can all laugh about it. We're all laughing, right? I'm laughing. Um,
Speaker 3 00:30:04 You're smiling. At least smiling.
Speaker 1 00:30:06 I'm having a great sign. This is fun. You know, this
Speaker 3 00:30:09 Is fun. For who
Speaker 1 00:30:10 Us? Um, yeah, apparent. It spends a lot about me, doesn't it? Um, okay, so then what do we feel about, okay, no, we're gonna skip that one. We talked about the tone. We don't need to talk about the tone anymore. Let's move on to favorite character. What's your favorite character from the whole series? New or returning? I just want to know your favorite character. Anthony's,
Speaker 3 00:30:31 Sonya. Sonya. Hands down. Like if you didn't like Sonya then I don't know what the hell you watch, but Sonya, goddammit. So here's the thing. I've seen Olivia Coleman for like a long as time. I used to watch B B C America. That's how I got into Dr. Who. And then after that, they would be that peep show or that Mitchell Web show that they would do. She used to be a recurring actress with these guys and these guys are hilarious. So she would do comedy. So I was like, I can't wait to see her do something entirely different. And you know, she was what On The Crown or something? She's, she's been in other serious stuff, but I, I don't watch that. But I know she's has that capability. Any comedic actor can always land really well, serious roles like Robin Williams, Jim Carrey, think about those.
Speaker 3 00:31:14 So when they said she was gonna be on board with this, I'm like, oh hell yeah. And especially with the role she's playing, like Top Spy, like someone at the level or above Nick Fury, but the British version, like, you guys know me, one of my favorite things ever is James Bond. Like this is about the closest James Bond as you can get in the M C U. And it opened us up so many other things that I think we're gonna talk about, like Captain Brit and who knows what else. And the, the link up with Gaia is really exciting, especially the respectful way that she went about it. She goes, we're not gonna do this friend Bs. Like we're, we're, this is a handshake agreement. We're using each other, Sonya all the way,
Speaker 1 00:31:55 You know, you mentioned all her serious roles, but I mean, she's also in like flea bag. I mean, broad Church is serious, but she's got a very funny, she's like holding the family together. I mean, she can act anything. And I would also agree, Sonya's definitely the best because I mean, she wanted to be in the MCU u so bad that she like approached them and was like begging to be in the mcu. And she ate that shit up. She ate it. Every, every episode she was in, she was giving her best 110%. She was better than when she was in the Crown and she won an Emmy for that. So like, and
Speaker 3 00:32:31 Not just that, but the connection she has with the last name FALs Worth.
Speaker 1 00:32:36 Absolutely. I'm here for it, Sonya, all the way. Why is this Sonya the rest of you? No,
Speaker 2 00:32:43 No, it is totally. So for me it's, I figured, figured,
Speaker 3 00:32:45 I figured you liked Sonya. I knew it. I knew it.
Speaker 2 00:32:47 Yeah. Not, not hard to predict, but I know that there have been a lot of comparisons, um, for Olivia Coleman and her. She had like a spy spy role and the Night Manager, which was another, um, super big series. It was a, it was a very good spy series. Um, but she kicked ass there and she kicked ass here. And I just really loved that. I think it was so much fun. And I don't know what else to say that you guys haven't already nailed.
Speaker 3 00:33:11 I'm thinking, I'm sorry. I know this is totally off topic, but she could totally be the new m whenever they start with the new Von Series. She could be him. I would love that.
Speaker 2 00:33:19 He would be perfect.
Speaker 1 00:33:21 I'm here for it.
Speaker 4 00:33:22 Uday. So take us home. I have, I've never seen any of these comedy roles of Olivia Coleman's. I only know her from The Crown and I thought that she would be a serious British lady. So I, I mean, I didn't think she'd be that serious did because I think you could, I think you could tell in the trailers that she was like having a little bit more fun than other people were. Um, but I still wasn't expecting that from the series and I did really like her. I just feel like there wasn't enough of her. And so she's not my favorite character, unfortunately. Just 'cause I feel like that's okay. I didn't really get to know her. I feel like she just popped in and was great for like a couple of scenes in a few episodes. Um, but I did, I did love the concept of her being fury's like British counterpart.
Speaker 4 00:34:02 And I liked that you could tell that there was a history. Like to me, Sonya slots very effortlessly into the M C U. You can tell she has a history with Fury and I feel like she's just been running her own secret stuff on the side the whole time. But I think Vara was my favorite new character because I think she was explored a lot more. And I think, um, Charlene Woodward, right? She also did an incredible job playing Vara. And I don't know, I really liked that that was one of the only people, it was the only scroll besides I guess, graphic at the end where we learned why they took the form of the person that they were impersonating on earth. And so I just feel like there's so much depth to her character and it's so interesting to think about. And for me, Sonya doesn't have that same depth because we don't really know her yet.
Speaker 4 00:34:49 It felt very much like an introduction to her. But I will say, just on the topic of Sonya being Fury's counterpart, all I want, like all I want from the M C U is to get, if they're gonna keep doing Disney plus shows, give me a Disney Plus show where the three leads are Fury, Sonya and Val. I want, I want American Nick Fury, I want British Nick Fury, and then I want Evil Nick Fury. That's what I want to see. And if that's what Secret Invasion had been, imagining Secret Invasion as like a master chess game between those three people plus like the scrolls, I feel like that just sounds way more appealing to me. You
Speaker 2 00:35:25 Mean as a spy show, which it was supposed to be?
Speaker 4 00:35:30 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:35:31 Listen, listen, we don't have to get into the negatives now. We've passed those. That's done. Um, I'll say that I loved all three of the new recruits, I guess, you know, Gaia Vara, but Sonya man, Olivia Coleman could just be in every show and I'd be so happy. It's funny that you mentioned that you saw her after Dr. Who when she was my, I saw her Dr. Who as that was my introduction to Olivia Coleman. Then I watched Broad Church. Um, and then it kind of spiraled from there. And if you haven't seen the favorite with um, Emma Stone, you need to because she is phenomenal in that film. In fact, I think she won an Academy Award for it. I could be wrong about that. So, uh, I apologize if you did. She did. You should have. She
Speaker 4 00:36:12 Still Lady Gaga. I'm kidding. She didn't steal it. She deserved it. She deserved it. I'm kidding. Don't kill me.
Speaker 1 00:36:19 No, no, no. Okay. So what was our least favorite character? And again, this can be returning or new and I wanna start this one off because it's probably going to be,
Speaker 3 00:36:29 I think I know what it is and it's probably the same as mine.
Speaker 1 00:36:32 I didn't like Rodie.
Speaker 3 00:36:34 I thought Rodie
Speaker 1 00:36:34 Was, I thought Rodie was bad in this. Like, nothing against Don Cheadle loved Don Cheadle. He didn't do anything for me in this performance. I felt very like calling it in almost like everything was very blah. And I wanted more from it. And I wanted it to mean more and it didn't. And so maybe that's what's gonna get me, you know, mad people be mad at me, but that's okay. Did not fit here. Rodie was not great for me. Let's go first. Who has the big one? I'll
Speaker 3 00:37:06 Go first. Grab it. Go ahead.
Speaker 1 00:37:08 Really? Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:37:10 Graphic was terrible. I just, yeah. I I just, he is not a bad villain. I just didn't really care. I'm like, oh yeah, you got screwed over in the deal. He got played by a spy. Yeah. Sorry man. Damn.
Speaker 1 00:37:25 That's fair. That's, it's,
Speaker 3 00:37:26 That's fair. It's like, it's like, it's like the United States government kind of has like a track record of doing that, you know, like mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Speaker 4 00:37:32 Well, how is he supposed to know that? He, he was a, I I know I was, I'm sorry. A fresh immigrant. I underst he didn't that I'm just more con I I'm way more confused about the fact that I'm way more confused about the fact that the S scrolls were on earth looking for a home when Captain Marvel ended with her taking them out into space to find one. And in the entire universe, there's no home for them. Why can't they live on the moon? They're immune to radiation. Can't they just have a slightly lighter atmosphere? Just,
Speaker 3 00:37:58 Isn't it being occupied on the other side or some shit?
Speaker 4 00:38:02 No. Figy That's has told us very podcast. Clearly. That's podcast.
Speaker 3 00:38:05 Oh no,
Speaker 1 00:38:07 I I will just say this. I think that it would be a travesty if this isn't, Elise talked about a little bit in the Marvels because with the fact that they're gonna explore the fact that Monica felt abandoned by Captain Marvel for her and her mom, and they don't also bring up the fact that there was a whole war fought about the fact that she abandoned them, I think is, that would be a travesty. Because like I, they have every right mad at her just like has every, everybody should be mad at Cat tomorrow. That sounds bad, but like, you know what I mean? Like, why I agree. There needs to be some kind of explanation.
Speaker 2 00:38:41 Should smile more. No,
Speaker 4 00:38:44 I don't, I don't think she should smile more. I think she should be founding more because of what she's done to these people. But yeah, the MCU u has been establishing a very troubling trend of Captain Marvel. Just abandoning everybody.
Speaker 1 00:38:57 Absolutely. Isla, who was your least favorite character?
Speaker 2 00:39:00 I actually agree with you there, Brian. Um, I, I thought that Rodie didn't have, like, Don Tle didn't have a lot, um, to like act with in this mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, I think he, he did the best he could, but, you know, they're his, the character just, it was funky. Um, I, there was like no emotional connection to him, you know, he was evil suddenly. And we didn't quite see that twist as to why, and it, it, you know, just felt off and out of place. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 00:39:30 I will say that what's interesting about it too is that Rodie up to this point has been very comical. Which is why it's funny to think that it wasn't rodie and endgame. 'cause he tried to simulate killing a child and laughed about it, kind of, you know, and the, the rodie and this one was just super serious, su super dry. And I just thought that like, he did his best, but that scroll was just not doing it for me.
Speaker 4 00:39:57 Yeah. I, I do agree with that. I don't think Roddy's one of my least favorites just because I'm so checked out of it. I'm like, okay, scroll, what was her name? Ava or whatever. I'm like, whatever you're doing, I don't care. Um, I just thought it was hilarious that, yeah, Brian, you're right, he has been comical and he's been serious when he needs to be. And I feel like he's really had those nice moments and that's why I liked him in episode two. I liked that he had a spine and that he was standing up to Nick Fury. 'cause I thought he made good points and then after that it would just, it was so downhill. Because even in the finale, he's like, he yelling at the president of the US to like New Russia right now and calling other cabinet members idiots. I'm like, does that not tip off the president? That that's an alien and not the person that he's been working with for presumably? Well, I mean, I guess this president wouldn't have worked with Roddy for years, but, but whatever. Honestly my least favorite character, sorry, Brian was Gaia. Um, wow, that's a hot, I don't like Gaia or graphic.
Speaker 2 00:40:55 Oh no.
Speaker 4 00:40:55 And here's the thing, I don't, I don't hate Gaia. I just, she's my least favorite character because I really wanted to like her. And it, and I, I feel like it should have been so easy to make me like her, but I don't think she had an interesting character design at all. That's, that's one thing that just makes it worse. I don't think she had an interesting emotional storyline. I do agree that she was kind of the only person with an arc, but killing her mom. Offscreen, lazy, bad writing, stupid, um, flash, like gimme a flashback. At least I thought her beef with graphic was poorly fleshed out. Like, I, I think, I think the concept behind her story arc was interesting. I just don't think, think it was executed well and I just don't care about her. And so people are like, oh, where's she gonna show up again? Is Fike gonna drop her or is she gonna like fight Kang? And I honestly just could not care less. Like the only interesting thing about her to me is the deal that she makes with Sonya at the end.
Speaker 1 00:41:50 And that could
Speaker 4 00:41:51 Have been any scroll making that deal.
Speaker 2 00:41:53 I have so many questions about that deal and I'm really surprised we haven't mentioned it yet. 'cause there was like an army full of pods.
Speaker 3 00:42:00 We, we'll,
Speaker 1 00:42:02 We'll we're gonna get to the future, I promise, because I have questions too. But let's hope that maybe in the next project shows up and you like her a little bit more because I, maybe there just wasn't enough material to work with. That's
Speaker 4 00:42:14 What I think. Like I don't
Speaker 3 00:42:15 Pay you so
Speaker 4 00:42:16 Something I just, I want more.
Speaker 1 00:42:18 Do I know something? You know something?
Speaker 3 00:42:19 I know lots of things. Something.
Speaker 1 00:42:21 Um, speaking of knowing things,
Speaker 3 00:42:22 When she shows back up, know when, when she show back up Brian when she show back, oh, he knows about the moon. I know he knows about the moon. He is the only who told me about the moon.
Speaker 1 00:42:31 And so what about these effects? Let's just talk about it quickly. We don't have to go into depths of it. I feel like most of the effect budget was put into that final battle. We know where the $200 million went. Um, what do we feel about the battle? What do we feel about the scrolls? What is our thoughts on these special effects? I thought they were fine. I know some people were complaining about them. I feel like Drew would have complaints with him. 'cause he is our FX guy. Um, that's not a, that's not a slight against Drew. He's just the guy that knows about FX more than me, who watches the Flash on television and thinks it's great. I didn't have a problem. <laugh> Ila, what do you think? Did you, did you like the fx?
Speaker 2 00:43:07 Yeah, they didn't bother me. I actually, I thought they were fine. Um, I, you know, and you mentioned the budget and it was what, $200 million? The most expensive Marvel mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, I guess television show yet. And I thought, um, just so I'm, you know, I have a screenwriting background. I come from um, like a, a television producing background and I just assumed that most of that went to reshoots because as we know, there were extensive reshoots for this
Speaker 1 00:43:32 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Absolutely. And in fact, one of the things we know that was in it that did not make it was we know that Martin Freeman had a beard and was dressed up, meaning the president. And that did not make it in. There was behind the scene footage that was released, I wanna say it was by Perez Hilton. I could be wrong, but he has a, he has like a, what is that called? Uh,
Speaker 3 00:43:56 Chinstrap.
Speaker 1 00:43:57 Chinstrap. And it's like white hair and he's dressed in a tan suit. He's going to meet the
Speaker 3 00:44:01 President's. Yeah, that's Perez. And
Speaker 1 00:44:04 They did not talk about that at all, but we all know it was filmed. So they, we know things were filmed and just gotten rid of
Speaker 4 00:44:10 You're gonna make me like show less.
Speaker 3 00:44:12 That ain't new.
Speaker 2 00:44:13 It could pop up later. That's something that, you know, they <crosstalk> in
Speaker 3 00:44:17 Assembled sometimes
Speaker 1 00:44:19 <laugh>. Yeah. Oh
Speaker 4 00:44:19 Yeah. I love, I love assembled for seeing the, because you can sometimes clearly see what got cut like Balder, the Braves dead body and Multiverse Madness.
Speaker 3 00:44:28 Oh really? Absolutely.
Speaker 4 00:44:29 Yeah. You can see it in one of the, the um, maybe it wasn't assembled, maybe it was a stunt video, but I thought it was unassembled where you can see his body impaled on his sword.
Speaker 3 00:44:37 Wow, I didn't know that. Huh. That's cool.
Speaker 1 00:44:40 Rue what about you? What'd you think of the effects?
Speaker 4 00:44:43 I thought they were fine. I don't get why everyone thought they looked so bad. I think that Gaia with Drax, his arm looks bad because it's nonsensical. You know, it's just like your brain is never gonna think that Amelia Clark has an arm that large and that gray coming out of her, not gray, smaller body, you know? Um, but I, I didn't think that they were bad. I also feel that part of it is the daylight. I think things look worse than daylight. And isn't it notoriously harder to render like effects in daylight? Yes. Because you've talked about the flash a little bit, Brian. Like I thought Batman didn't look great in the daylight, but Batman always looks great at night. And so to me like Gaia glowing, I think the effects were fine. I think the reason I don't really like the shots is that I feel like the glow would stand out better if it was at night. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, but yeah, as for the whole battle, I thought it was fine. I thought it was kind of dumb because the show had been so grounded and then it just becomes, I have every power in the universe and you have every power in the universe. And then when it was just getting going, it ended. And that doesn't mean I don't like it though. Like, I thought it was fun. I thought it was dumb, but I thought it was fun and I mean at least it was fun.
Speaker 1 00:45:53 That's fair. What about you Anthony?
Speaker 3 00:45:56 Um, the only real thought I have about it is I liked it overall, but if I think back to somebody we know, Mr. Perez, that's something that Free Guy did it better and I kind of agree a little bit.
Speaker 1 00:46:09 That's fair. You know, they did their best. Let's just say that.
Speaker 3 00:46:14 <laugh>, I'm not saying it looks bad, I'm just saying free Guy did it better and I agree with them, them sure.
Speaker 1 00:46:20 To round out then our conversation. We're gonna look towards the future and this is what Ila has been waiting for. Um, how, you know, where do we think these storylines are going from here? What questions do we have? Where do we wanna see these characters pop next? All the above. Uday we'll start with you. What you thinking?
Speaker 4 00:46:42 Oh, yay. So for me, last 10 minutes of Secret invasion, most interesting part of the show and makes me like the show less because I think that those concepts should have been introduced like at least halfway through. Like Ritz's whole speech should have been at least an episode seeing the effects that that had on society. I did really like Fur's line about him being a one-term president. 'cause as Ila said, we know that's true. And as someone whose most anticipated movies in the entire M C U coming down the pipeline are Captain America, brave New World Thunderbolts and Armor Wars. I'm really excited to see the impact that Secret Invasion has on those. I'm gonna write an article about this tonight, so hopefully it'll be out by the time this podcast airs. But I really think that Ritz's speech is going to set the stage for Captain America for, because it was originally called New World Order.
Speaker 4 00:47:35 And to me, you're certainly in a new world order when people are gunning down human beings in broad daylight thinking that they're aliens. And to me, the world is just in so much chaos right now, now that that paranoia has been introduced, not knowing who to trust, that I think it's the perfect time for the government to assemble the thunderbolts. I feel like Ross is gonna campaign on the fact that we need new protection and he and Val are gonna create the thunderbolts to, you know, to make it seem like the government is doing something for its citizens, even if the team is being sent on, like missions that aren't necessarily about protecting America's citizens. And I also think that now that Sonya and Gaia have teamed up, I think that, um, Ross and Val are gonna be in the market for their own superheroes, especially with the Harvest d n a out there. And I feel like that's gonna lead to Red Hulk and maybe Century if rumors are to be believed.
Speaker 1 00:48:34 Okay. Who, who else has who, who else has some thoughts? Anthony shaking his head no. Okay, we're gonna skip Anthony. Noah, thoughts on the future of this ala take us away.
Speaker 2 00:48:46 So I think Uday hit on a lot of things. Um, I'm really excited to see about the ones that had been in those like stasis pods and what they had have dealt with, right? Because I think, you know, they've gone off and lived their lives. Um, except for now the, the poor British prime minister who, you know, was the victim of the vigilante. Um, I'm really roadie. I, um, I, I'm excited to see what happens with him in in Armor Wars. I want to see like how he deals with having missed out with so much on so much stuff, right? Because we've seen characters that, um, that were blipped mi miss out on so much of, of the world and life. And I'm kind of curious as to be, you know, as, as what that will be for him. Um, I really liked Ritz's speech because it sets up so much, um, so much interesting political stuff going forward. Um, I think it, um, as, as Uday said, as I said, you know, it, it just was some of the best parts of the show. Um, and I really can't wait to see what's going on with um, Gaia and Sonia because you know, they have all these pods, what's in the pods or these soldiers, what's going on? And I would like to see their alliance and ultimately how their alliance, um, is tested. And probably they're at odds with each other.
Speaker 1 00:50:10 I'm so excited for the pods. As soon as I saw those, I was like, what is that? Like my first instinct was are these all super scrolls? But like how did Sonia get them and where did they come from? And like right
Speaker 2 00:50:23 There, where are the people?
Speaker 1 00:50:25 Yes. Like right there in that moment I was like, this is what I want. And I always wanted m i six 'cause of Captain Britton. I've always wanted the team. Um, I didn't know I wanted Sonya. I want Sonya, I want her in everything. Put her in every Marvel project. Make her the new veil. Let's give her a veil. Um, but Une
Speaker 4 00:50:46 Don't give me that. No. Oh, not a val hater.
Speaker 1 00:50:51 But I was so intrigued by that. And I love the idea of them using each other and at the end they can all turn on each other anyways because I think that's very realistic and I think that this deal that they have is going to propel it. I think that's where we're gonna see Kitt Harrington pop up next actually is gonna be with m i six. Oh. Um, because as we know, he is probably not showing up in Blade.
Speaker 2 00:51:13 Poor Ben. I'm sorry buddy.
Speaker 1 00:51:15 Mm. It's not happening. But I think that makes Blade showing up in
Speaker 4 00:51:19 Blade.
Speaker 3 00:51:19 He'll Live
Speaker 1 00:51:20 Is Blade happening. Let's, let's ask the serious question.
Speaker 4 00:51:24 I seriously doubt it. It's
Speaker 2 00:51:25 Been a lot of years
Speaker 3 00:51:26 I doubt it.
Speaker 4 00:51:27 Yeah. Like any kind of excitement I had for that was dead like at least three years ago.
Speaker 2 00:51:33 Wow. Put
Speaker 1 00:51:34 That on the blade anyway. Sorry. Bad joke. Um, I think that there's a lot of potential for what this is gonna happen, where we're gonna see these characters next. I don't know. I think that the next time we see Sonya and Gaia are gonna be on their, in our own project, a project of their own, um, though if they showed up somehow in like thunderbolts, like unexpectedly
Speaker 3 00:51:55 Bullets, I was thinking Yeah, because I could think anything would be more realistic. 'cause that'd be like an international sort of thing. 'cause look at the team that you're putting together. So you have Task Mask, who's Russian, uh, you have Guardian who's Russian, uh, red Guardian, sorry. Then you have Bucky, who's American. Who else is on the team? Ghost? Who's American? Elena. Elena. Who's Russian American, just like Natasha. Um,
Speaker 2 00:52:24 And Ghost was mentioned in, in this finale, right? Yeah. Well briefly on the, you know, the computer screens
Speaker 4 00:52:30 And Gaia used her power once.
Speaker 3 00:52:32 That was really cool. Yeah. Yeah. Just skipped that stone Twice.
Speaker 1 00:52:35 Twice.
Speaker 4 00:52:35 Oh, twice, sorry. Yep. Before she did that. That's how forgettable the finale was.
Speaker 3 00:52:39 Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 4 00:52:40 Um, but also like, speaking of being in Thunderbolts to me, like, well the fact that the fact that po that secret invasion does not have a post credit scene is shocking. Um, and also another missed opportunity. I firmly believe that the post credit scenes of both Hawkeye and Secret Invasion should have been Val, just like a tiny bit of connective tissue to make us feel like something is being built, especially for secret invasion. I think it would've been so perfect to see Val like reacting to the President's speech and I don't know, like picking up a, a dossier of like her, of her people like US Agent and Yelena and whoever else she's got coming down the pipeline.
Speaker 3 00:53:19 Or she could have been talking to a scroll and recruiting one. Mm-hmm. Imagine her with a scroll, a super scroll.
Speaker 2 00:53:28 I've seen people online say that the Marvels trailer was essentially the post credit scene for Secret Invasion because, you know, fury is Fury beamed up, and then we see him in the Marvels trailer, you know, on, in s um, dealing with stuff
Speaker 3 00:53:46 And on Planet Earth talking to Kamala.
Speaker 2 00:53:48 Yes, that's true too.
Speaker 3 00:53:49 So, I mean, he's, I mean, clearly you could bounce up and off of Saber. It's not like it's super hard either, so mm-hmm. <affirmative> I in my, sorry. But in my opinion, it's not indicative of anything if it's that simple, if it's a, it's a light beam.
Speaker 4 00:54:01 Yeah. I also thought he was making a lot, like a huge deal about leaving Earth and I'm like, I just, I don't even know what to say to that. But, um, but yeah, I, I just, um, I I don't think the Marvels trailer really acts as a post credited scene to secret Invasion. 'cause I don't think, it looks like it has a lot to do with secret invasion. I mean, even Fury's look is totally different. He looks exactly the same in the Marvels as he looks in the first three phases of the M C U. They didn't even like keep his beard or let him keep the eye patch off. So, and also Vara Vara should just be in the Marvels. Like I would take the tiniest little crumbs of connection, like I'm saying, throw Val in a post credit scene, throw Vara just like, at least in the background of the Marvels, right? Like, why isn't she standing with Fury and Saber? And if you haven't seen Secret Invasion, it's just like, oh, hey, that's Fury's scroll wife. Make it a joke. But,
Speaker 3 00:54:51 Or you could see Fury walking away from having coffee with her to go talk to somebody at, at the deck there. It doesn't actually be huge.
Speaker 4 00:54:58 Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:55:01 Who knows if it gets delayed, they might just throw it in there when everything, when the strikes are over.
Speaker 3 00:55:05 <laugh>. I know this is totally kind of weird, like diversion, but I want to mention something because the fact that we haven't mentioned it is kind of the point is the fact that Rick Mason, he popped up and people were confused on Twitter. They're like, who is this guy? And it's like, wow, Don already forgot who the hell he was.
Speaker 4 00:55:24 I, I think it's fair that people didn't remember him, but to me that's the perfect kind of cameo. I saw people on Twitter saying that this is like the M C's lup shito moment, but to me it's not because what Rick Mason isn't, to me, a Glu Shito is someone who like your captain is supposed to pause and like clap. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:55:41 Like Captain Marvel would be a glove shito.
Speaker 4 00:55:43 Yeah. And to me, Rick Mason popping up is just like, oh, haha, there's the guy from Black Widow for, for that kind of tiny bit role. I think it's nice to get someone we've seen before rather than some background actor.
Speaker 3 00:55:55 And I made sense for him to get that. I like that camera shield thing. So I mean, it, it did connect. I just, it's just kind of the thing that this show made things so forgettable that like, people were even confused about this dude showing up overall. I'm just mean as a series. Like no, no one really talked about it. I,
Speaker 1 00:56:11 I think part of that though is that there was a lot edited out and who knows what it would've been like if we would've got what we were supposed to though. You know, something that I wanna say though is, you know, everyone talking about no post credit scene and how the postcard scene is like the trailer, but I'm viewing the series a little different. And maybe this might change people's opinions a little bit. I don't know. I wouldn't grab this off my shelf. This is all the comics for the Marvel Sinek universe for the first 10 years. They are all the, the, uh, the, um, like the prequels, what's
Speaker 3 00:56:43 Inspiring? Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 00:56:44 <affirmative>. Yeah. They are the interludes and the prequels and the part ones. And they're all filling in parts in between the movies and they're telling little stories that have no impact on anything. But it is serving as like introducing the story of concepts. Yeah. I, this is how I'm viewing secret invasion. Okay. It is the comic that they're not making anymore. 'cause they're not making a lot of these interludes anymore.
Speaker 2 00:57:06 The $200 million comic.
Speaker 4 00:57:08 That's what I was gonna say. Do we need a $200 million interlude? Especially when I paid 200
Speaker 1 00:57:13 Bucks for this, did
Speaker 4 00:57:15 You pay 200 million bucks? Because where is the, also, where's the connective tissue again? I do believe secret invasion will be referenced in the Marvels. I don't think they're gonna drop it. I think, you know, the crease scroll, peace treaty, whatever, I think that's gonna be addressed in the Marvels. And honestly, I would love it if Dar Ben in the Marvels the villain with the accuser hammer. I would freaking love it if she was just like Ronan Round two. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> where Ronan got annoyed that the Cree were making peace with Zandar. And Dar Ben is annoyed that the Cree are making peace with the scrolls and shows she's going after Carol. 'cause she's like, why are you like taking away my like genocidal right to the universe? You know? And so I think we'll get little connections like that. I don't know. I haven't read the links.
Speaker 4 00:58:02 Um, but I don't know, I, I really, I really think that those small connections will be there. But to me, like with the amount of nothing that happened in Secret Invasion, but with the interesting concepts that were introduced, it feels like a prequel. But to me, we're not getting like the meat of the story. It's just like gonna be a little side plot at most in the Marvels. And that's honestly why I feel like Captain Marvel two should have been like Civil War, like a Mini Avengers movie and have that be the second half of Secret Invasion if they weren't going to do an Avenger Secret invasion movie. But I also struggle with that 'cause I really like how the Marvels is looking. And I think it's a very interesting original story. So
Speaker 3 00:58:42 Isn't this gonna be the biggest gap between Avengers movies, between the, the end game and the next one?
Speaker 4 00:58:50 Yeah, it is. Yeah. And
Speaker 3 00:58:51 It's like seven years, like the biggest gap we've had.
Speaker 4 00:58:54 And I do think that there's crossover coming. I've talked extensively about how I think, uh, about how I think Brave New World and Thunderbolts and Armor Wars, if you put 'em all together, I feel like they're gonna be an Avengers movie with the level of crossover that happens there. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 00:59:09 Probably.
Speaker 4 00:59:09 But to me, that's not a substitute for an Avens movie. Um, but, but I mean, let's see.
Speaker 1 00:59:17 And with that, I think we're running out of d so we'd love to continue the conversation with all of you listeners. So check us
[email protected], or you can find us on Twitter or other social medias at my Cosmic Circus or our new Cosmic Circus podcast, which is not very new, but I'll keep totting it as new at Cosmic Podcasts. Thank you again so much for tuning into the Cosmic Circle. My name is Brian Kitson and you can find me on Twitter at kitson 3 0 1. Thank you. I love for pointing out that it is not Twitter anymore. It is X I'm sorry, on my phone it still says Twitter, so we're gonna go with it. Um, but like I said, my name is Brian Kitson and you can find me on Twitter at kiton 3 0 1. And thank you so much for joining me. Everybody. Before you can go, where can people find you? Give us your ex name.
Speaker 3 01:00:07 My <laugh> my ex name would be Nightcrawler, but the, the handle I use on X <laugh> is Rodo underscore,
Speaker 2 01:00:17 And I refuse to refer to it as X, but I'm ala Ruby. They're called
Speaker 3 01:00:21 Seats.
Speaker 2 01:00:22 Oh gosh, I'm ala Ruby. You can find me at T U L I N rights on Twitter, um, and the cosmic circus.com.
Speaker 4 01:00:31 Um, I'm uday, you can find me on all major social media platforms, including X at Golden Ninja 3000, uh, and yeah, of course, at the cosmic circus.com where I will be writing about the future of secret invasion.
Speaker 1 01:00:45 Thank you again, listeners. We can't wait for our next trip through the cosmos.
