[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back, listeners, to another episode of the Cosmic Circle, the official podcast of the cosmic circus. On today's episode, we are going to be talking about Marvel's hall h presentation from this year's San Diego Comic Con. I know everybody was excited for it. There was not all that much excitement after from a lot of people. A lot of people were very stoked. There's a lot of confusion. We're going to talk about it. My name is Brian Kitson, head writer at the cosmic circus. And joining me today are once again the infamous, or famous, depending on what you want to say, Anthony Flagg. And, of course, we have Alex Perez. Welcome back.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: Talk to you 1 hour later.
[00:00:43] Speaker A: 1 hour later I'm slightly more caffeinated. Slightly more caffeinated. Maybe just a little bit.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: Just hydrated, man. It's water.
[00:00:51] Speaker A: So let's get into it. Before we get into it, though, as we just let our other writer know, udaydeh, there is going to be a spoiler warning. If you don't want to be spoiled about possible spoilery things from the future of the MCU, or at least the rest of this next phase or so, you probably want to get out of here. But if you stayed around this long, you know what you're getting yourself into. You want to be here with us. We want to be here with you.
We're all here for Alix. This is the Alix show, and this is Alex's world, and we're all living in it. No, I'm just kidding.
So you've been properly spoiled. I think that's enough spoiler warnings. So we're going to dive right into the first project that was talked about there, which was Captain Brave new world. We did have somebody on the floor that was there.
That was, that was kind of in, that was kind of in talks with, with you. Alex, do you want to kind of give, like, a rundown of, like, your impressions of what this project was I in that moment?
[00:01:54] Speaker C: Like, you mean when they, when they showed it at, at the hall or.
[00:01:58] Speaker A: Like, yeah, yeah, I'm just giving you the floor.
[00:02:01] Speaker C: No, I don't want to, I don't want this show to just be me ranting for an hour. Good Lord. Lord knows I do that already on Twitter, and everybody gets pissed at me for it.
[00:02:12] Speaker A: But, okay, let's put this. We weren't there. None of us were right. For the two of you. What was your impression of what we saw on Twitter, what people were talking about? It seemed like the big draw of this project was when Harrison Ford walked out on stage and was doing the Hulk impressions, which might be my new screensaver, who knows?
[00:02:34] Speaker B: That was pretty awesome.
[00:02:35] Speaker C: That was awesome. Even at that age, to do that, you know? And I'm just. I just want to say, like, whenever you look at Harrison Ford talking about Star wars, he always looked so bored when talking about these films that he, like, the. Especially in the new trilogy. But then, like, you see him come out for Captain America and he's just so pumped. I was like, what am I looking at?
[00:03:03] Speaker A: But 82 years old. I was like, this man has energy. I thought he was falling. Like, I swear, I'm swearing on someone's grave that when he was doing press for one of the other Star wars movies, he was falling asleep during the interviews, you know?
[00:03:16] Speaker C: You know what I think? I'm just. I just think he's. I think he's just happy that he's doing something else for a change. Because normally, whenever we see Harrison Ford, it's always about, like, Han Solo or Indiana Jones. But now that he's entering a new franchise that he hasn't really stepped in before, now that he's like. It's ironic, though, because this isn't his first time playing president.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: I was thinking the exact same thing.
[00:03:39] Speaker C: So it's like you're. You're going to do a president again, but you're this time. And he's like, all right.
[00:03:48] Speaker A: Literally, though, when he. He was like, I would have grown a mustache if you guys would have asked. And I, like, he was just so excited to be there. Like, I love the last Indiana Jones film. That man felt like he was calling in half that performance.
[00:04:01] Speaker C: Literally. I would have never guessed in a million years he was going to show up, because he doesn't do this sort of thing.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: No.
[00:04:09] Speaker C: And he just showed up and I was like, holy crap, he must. Either he's really invested in cap four or they are paying a buttload of money.
[00:04:20] Speaker B: You know, it's a tiny bit off topic, but just focused on him. I've noticed Ford has started to come back to liking doing movies ever since he died as Han Solo, because even when he did, like, the tv show shrinking, he seemed pretty enthused about it. And it's not like that movie. That show is, like, super exciting or anything. So it's just nice to see that enthusiasm from him. So, like, think back. Think about a few months from now when he's doing press for it. It's probably going to be a lot of fun.
[00:04:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:04:48] Speaker A: I want you to know, I know of somebody who worked on shrinking and they said that he was so passionate about that project. He was so excited. He was, like, being the ultimate cheerleader of that show. And they said that made them love that show even more because Harrison Ford was so into it. And I, when they said that, I was like, that's interesting, because that's not the energy I've gotten from him in the last decade. But back to Captain America Brain, I was gonna say civil war. That's. We are past that.
Brave new world.
We got a trailer. We got some footage. We got in this footage. While we didn't see it, it showed Harrison Ford transforming into the Red Hulk. Am I right?
[00:05:27] Speaker C: That is correct. He transformed into the Hulk while giving a speech. The scene does play out in the trailer. You can kind of see it. It's like when he's walking onto a podium that's in front of, like, the White House, he's kind of, like, walking out, and at that same moment, there's, like, soldiers that start pointing guns at them. That's kind of like the. That's kind of like what plays out. We see him transform into the Red Hulk, but we also saw, like, the clip of the president talking about the president. Like, I've acknowledged Harrison Ford as my president.
President Ross talking about.
About the celestial tiamat and how the island that kind of, like, protruded out the ocean, how it currently holds a rare mineral which they are dubbing adamantium. We all know what that is. I am not going to lie. I am thoroughly surprised. And the thing that the reason why they were, like, mentioning this was because, you know, every single country in the world is currently trying to get their hands on adamantium because, you know, they're kind of playing off what happened with.
[00:06:38] Speaker B: Black Panther and vibranium.
[00:06:40] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. And Black Panther that everybody wanted to get their hands on. Vibranium. France, but France and the US, technically, the US built their own machine using MIT resources. Not me. Calling out the Massachusetts Institute of Technology of villainous. The MCU. Not on my bingo card, but I love it anyway. And it's still. There's still gonna be a villain. Ironheart, but kind of, like, going elaborating. They were. They're playing off that storyline of, like, currently the world, though. The world is so tense with heroes and all of these.
All of these characters that are kind of coming in, and they kind of want to have their own defense. Not defense, but kind of like their ways of defending themselves in case any of these heroes kind of turned evil. So they're trying to find any sort of mineral or material to kind of help them defend themselves from that. And vibranium was the first option that failed. And then now that this island suddenly came out with the celestial and the celestial being revealed to be entirely made out of adamantium, now everybody in the world kind of wants to get that. And what's interesting is we nearly start World War three in this movie, and you can kind of see it because there's kind of, like, the mission that they send.
They send what's his name. They send Sam on with the new Falcon, who was played by Danny Ramirez, Joaquin Torres, and they're on a mission at Celeste on. On the celestial island or Tmut Island. I don't know what they're calling it. And it's a mission where, like, the United States is kind of, like, going on a race against Japan, which was interesting. It was interesting to see, like, Japan be portrayed as the villain nation in this. In this scenario. Kind of interesting because it's like, oh, they're calling back to the old World War two days. You know, the imperial Japan was, anyway, history buff there. But it's kind of, like, interesting how they're playing that out, and then, you know, there are those tensions to kind of get those minerals and try to get to adamantium first and claim that island, which then leads to the creation of that summit, you know, well, the summit where a prime minister was there by who's played by the actor, who from Shogun. And we kind of see that, and that's kind of just how the plot just continues to develop. You know, the United States tries to make this summit with Japan to kind of, like, get the peace talks going and just see how they can evenly distribute this material across the nation and across the world, which is kind of like what Harrison Ford's pitching. But obviously, the United States wants to keep this adamantium for themselves, and the movie just goes on from there, and it's just this. I do agree, and I think Kevin Feige hit the nail on the head when he said that Braveview world goes deep into, like, how they're going back to their roots of grounded spy thriller with the Winter Soldier, you know, the second Captain America film. And I think he hit the nail on the head, but I think he hit it a little bit too hard, because if you take the plot from Winter Soldier and you copy pasted it onto Brave New World and just change the characters, you're pretty much about to get the exact same movie. Except there's not really. Well, it's exactly that. It's literally just copy paste that, because you're going to get the start of fricking brave new world with serpent society, and you have that separate mission which has the same, if you remember Winter Soldier, what does that start with? A separate mission with Steve Rogers, Natasha Romanoff fighting Batroc Philipper, a villain from the comics. And then this movie is now going to start with, what them going on a mission, apparently in Mexico, at least it was filmed in Mexico. And it was, it's going up against the serpent society, who are not necessarily, like this big, necessarily the most important villains in the part of the story. But it's, it. They're literally just copy pasting and rearranging the winter Soldier to make a new story. And I feel like that's such a very safe move.
But then they add the element of the hulk in, and it's like, all right, that I can. We can play ball with this, but it. But they're, they're going, I can already jump for this movie comes out in, what, February next year? I can.
[00:11:27] Speaker A: For Valentine's Day.
[00:11:28] Speaker C: Yeah. I can literally jump forward in time. And I can already see the review saying that this film was a copy of a copy paste mix and match of the Winter Soldier. If they still keep everything that they've pretty much been doing, which is kind of what they've been doing, and they don't really seem to have any plans to change that. Uh, but, you know, there was one thing they, I think it was Anthony Mackie who said, like, the, the events of the Incredible Hulk are not pertinent to this movie. And nothing, like, nothing that happened in the incredible Hulk kind of, like, matters.
Um, debatable, I could say debatable.
[00:12:09] Speaker A: I mean, because we are getting the leader who was from the end of that film.
[00:12:13] Speaker C: Yeah. And, you know, he's kind of involved with Ross and Red Hulk. And, you know, there's also Betsy Ross who's going to come back, you know, so there's that.
You know, particularly what I find interesting about the leader is the leader is kind of just like trying to.
Let me, let me see if I can.
Let me see if I can try. Kind of explain how it goes. Because you have the serpent society, who is the leader is trying to start World War Three, essentially, which is we.
[00:12:58] Speaker A: Just got confirmation of who was playing the leader of the serpent society at this panel, which was quite surprising, too. That's not who I thought would be playing him.
[00:13:13] Speaker C: Right. So it, it felt like a waste.
[00:13:16] Speaker A: Let me put it that way.
[00:13:18] Speaker C: That, and the thing is, it feels like a waste. Because it's so weird, though, because a lot of people were confirming that he was George Washington Bridge, you know, and you know, George Washington, like, sure, uh, there have been instances of character name changes. It doesn't matter. That's not. I'm not particularly one, I'm not gonna lie. I didn't know exactly who it was. I was hoping it was Bushman, mainly because, like, you'd expect someone like Giancarlos Esposito to kind of, like, have a longer, a longer time showing up in the MCU. But I'm not, I'm not one to know exactly what kind of this details are, but, you know, the serpent society's kind of goal. They're the ones who kind of steal adamantium from Japan, you know, in, in the. At least that's the premise. I was told, you know, they kind of steal the adamantium from Japan, you know, Sam kind of has to stop them with, uh, Joaquin to kind of prevent world war three. And you think, oh, serpent society is just this random organization. No, they were hired by the leader, you know. You know, and there's a. It's just, it's this thriller that keeps taking lots of twists and turns and tries to be this phase's Winter Soldier. And I'm not sure, at least reading about what sources have told me, I don't know how exactly that might play out.
Could be interesting, but I need to see it to kind of, like, have to kind of understand it. And, you know, I don't.
Yeah, I'm not going to give away the ending, but I just read comics. Folks read comics about the red hole, and that's all you need.
That's all you need.
[00:15:16] Speaker A: Let me ask you this, Anthony. Is there anything of the brave new world portion of this panel that made you excited for this film? Because I have to say, I was actually watching a Hallmark movie at the same time. And literally, it was just like, eh. And I kept watching. There was, like, nothing that I was like, oh, like, I need to stop and, like, pause it and think about this film. You're like, yeah, it's cool to see the red Falcon there. I was kind of disappointed with Esposito's role announcement. I was thinking it was gonna be something bigger, something juiciere. What were your thoughts on this portion?
[00:15:47] Speaker B: Honestly, the only thing I'm truly excited about is to watch this movie and say, oh, I've been there. That's about it.
Because I really liked during the trailer when they showed them fighting by the cherry blossoms that gives you a timeframe of when this is happening, because they only bloom during, like, March and April. So I'm like, okay, so this happens in the spring, you know, just so you know, Alex. So if you want to use that information for whatever reason.
[00:16:13] Speaker A: I will say. I will say that, like, they're.
They definitely showed Red Hulk in that first trailer, and they're showing. That is the biggest draw of this film, is they're trying to get people to come because of the Red Hulk.
[00:16:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm excited for Red Hulk. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm definitely excited about adamantium. I mean, it's a cool metal. There's a lot of different applications. It's not just used as skeletons. Right.
So I'm curious to see what the Japanese come up with. I'm curious of what the Americans come up with in this movie. If. If they get to use it in the movie.
[00:16:47] Speaker C: Yeah. And the thing is, like, I don't think. Well, I'm not going to answer the question of whether or not they use adamantium, mainly because that is a spoiler.
What I'll say is they manage. They've managed to synthesize the material.
[00:17:02] Speaker B: Right.
[00:17:02] Speaker C: But, uh, it. It's just the use of it, you know, like, when. Whenever you have this rare type of material, obviously everyone's going to want to get their hands on it. And, and it. It leads to tensions, right? Because Japan's, like, the first one to kind of synthesize it, but then certain society comes in, steals it, and obviously, that just leads to tensions with the United States. And they try to make this summit to make peace, you know, and essentially, they're just like, trying to start World War Three, which I'm going to also go on a very big leap here because I know there's, there's a couple of follower of our followers on Twitter and on social media, brave fire specifically, who asks me every day without fault about World War Hulk and just anything about the Hulk in general.
You know, I. This is the problem I have with the multiverse saga in general. How are we supposed to cover all of these stories in a span of two years before we get to secret wars? Because you have.
You have the storyline of the world war tensions. You have the storyline with the Hulk blood. You have that you have to deal with, which is supposed to lead into a world War Hulk style project. Like I have been told many, many times, we're gonna get Red Hulk fighting Bruce Banner at some point. Like it's going to happen, but how it's going to happen within the next two years. It's just. It's impossible. You know, it's impossible to get a world War Hulk project at this point in time. And, you know, even if they eventually do it past secret wars, I feel like the interest for that project is going to just immediately evaporate. Like, it's going to be another black Widow situation where everybody wanted a black Widow movie, but they decided to do it, like, four years too late, and they released it in 2020, and it's like, okay, why are you releasing this now? We've. We don't care. She's dead. What. What's the point of this? And it's like, okay, we've established Florence Pugh and Red Garden. Great. But the movie suffered, because this is a movie that people wanted to see a long time ago in theaters, but instead of doing it chronologically, they decided to do it out of order. And the same thing goes with World War Hulk. Like, if they do this project after secret wars, it's going to. It's going to falter because, like, people are not going to. Like, I don't want to sound mean, but people are not going to wait to have another four years. I'm going to wait four or five years to see this type of project developer.
[00:19:56] Speaker A: In fact, this is one of the things people have been complaining about, like, the things that are not paying off as it is. Like, you're getting all of these post credit scenes that just aren't going anywhere, and you're waiting years, and you're spinning out. The only way that they could have solved this problem was they could have pushed out secret wars and had more projects or have more projects in a year, which is not feasible. And they chose neither, which is something we're gonna talk about as we get a little bit long, you know, farther onto this. Cause there's.
It's coming in two years. Like, we are headed straight into secret wars, and we're not slowing down, and there's just not enough time for all of the stories that they have, and I think it's gonna really suffer.
But this leads us into, you know, so we had Captain America, brave new worlds. We've all the things that came with that. That portion of it, and we went straight into thunderbolts, which I will say I did stop and pause because love Florence Pugh. There's not a project that she cannot do that I won't turn up for.
I think she is absolutely phenomenal in this role, and I will, and I am excited for thunderbolts. I am not excited for Captain Brave new world. I am excited for thunderbolts. For Lawrence Pugh. Anthony, what about you? What are you feeling about this portion of the panel? You excited for thunderbolts?
[00:21:15] Speaker B: I am excited for thunderbolts. I am not excited for Red Guardian, but everything else I'm excited about.
[00:21:20] Speaker A: Okay, valid.
[00:21:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I know.
[00:21:23] Speaker C: I know you're not excited for Red Guardian.
[00:21:26] Speaker B: Yeah, he's a little annoying, but it's okay. I'm still excited for it overall. Like everybody else, I'm really excited. Like, you know, they dropped that little bomb that Bucky's a congressman. Like, that's very interesting. I can't wait to go into that whenever that comes around. And you know, the rumor of, uh, sentry. Very exciting, Bob.
I'm sorry, Bob, but when they said.
[00:21:52] Speaker A: That, I was like, come on.
[00:21:54] Speaker B: I don't know. I like, I like. I like ensemble things. So that's why I like guardians. That's an ensemble thing. Avengers.
[00:21:59] Speaker C: And this, when they said. When they said Geraldine was Mel, I was like, oh, my God, please stop. It's like, listen, yeah, I know what you're doing. And I said this a really long time ago when. When I. God, I don't want to say her name wrong. You want me to say for you, adepyo IO.
[00:22:20] Speaker B: Deborah.
[00:22:22] Speaker C: Whatever. I'm confusing. I'm confusing one actress with another. But yeah, IO, right, IO was cast as. Thank you, redhead. When Ayah was cast as.
As Valentina's secretary, literally the first thing that came out to me was, oh, she has pink hair. And I was like, it's freaking Melissa Gold. You can't tell me otherwise. And. And I was like, yes. And I got carried away because I tweeted on twitter, yes, little songbird sing.
I was like, I was. I was just. I. Listen, I love songbird. My first exposure to Songbird was, this is going to be a deep cut, but if anyone's ever played ultimate alliance two, bro, Songbird is. Songbird is a very powerful character. And it's thanks to that game that I got into civil war, because the game covers the events of civil war and then just spins off into a very random story about, like, nick fury and nanites and an alien invasion. And it's just a very weird storyline. But anyways, it covered civil war, and that's kind of where I got into civil war. And then after civil War, I got into thunderbolts, and then after thunderbolts, I got into, like, dark rain and. And secret invasion and just how everything kind of, like, went in there. So that was kind of like my my big introduction into comics, just reading that, like, playing that game. So obviously, like, Melissa Gold, it's like an awesome thing. But then I heard, like, obviously a, you had to cut out because I o sorry, IO had to cut leaf because they're filming the bear. And understandably so the same thing with Stephen Yoon.
But I've heard that they're both gonna eventually be recast for other potential roles. You know, there's, there's a high chance that they will be recast as other characters, so there's interest for them. There's still hope, you know?
But the, when, when I saw Geraldine called Mel, I was like, oh, this is, this is songbird. And it's not like we're gonna see, I don't think we're gonna see her, like, with her full extent of her powers, but it's just going to be teased, you know, because the thing with thunderbolts is we're going to learn that the thunderbolts and sentry are not the only super powered individuals in this universe. The same thing is with the Avengers. We're going to see a couple of interesting things that the government has kind of been doing on the sidelines.
And, you know, with Val as the head of the CIA, it just becomes even more shady. And it's funny because in a way, they're making the United States a villain at this point. Oh, it's like, well, yeah, well, the shoe fits.
Well, if the shoe fit, I'm not, I'm not necessarily from the United States, so I can't comment.
But, well, it's a mix anyways. Uh, but, you know, there was a, there was one thing that was very interesting to me. We find in the trailer. You know, they're kind of like, it's, we kind of already get this sense that Valentina is setting them up for, is setting them up on this suicide mission by giving them all the exact same mission. You know, that's kind of what we see in the trailer. Like, every single one of them gets recruited for an individual mission, and eventually, when they realize that they've all been assigned to the same mission, it's a setup, you know, and this setup is, you know, fine sentry.
Obviously, that goes well.
And, you know, shenanigans ensue. At this point, I would have just placed thunderbolts kind of like, as an r rated movie to kind of give it a little bit more leeway, kind of make it more fun for the audience. And just because all of these characters, if you think about it, they all have r rated potential, you know? And I think that's probably, like, what's going to be one of the biggest misses with this movie is, like, they're making a PD 13 and they're limiting what these characters can do in a sense, because, like, imagine, for example, a character like ghost who can just phase through freaking somebody. Yeah, just phase through and just rip them in half or something, you know, error. And it's not like saying that r rated violence, it automatically makes a movie good. That is not what I am saying, in any case. But I, like, I feel like giving these characters in r rating would have. Would have let more leeway into how these characters are in the comics, you know? And that's my sense. And that's, like, my two take. That's my take on it, because this movie really is just Marvel's take on the Suicide Squad. And this is essentially Marvel Suicide Squad. And I just wanted to do well because Florence Pugh is absolutely amazing, and so is, like, the Red Guardian and Taskmaster, and all these characters kind of, like, deserve the opportunity to shine on their own. Bucky, I feel like, is a miss for this movie, mainly because he's not really in it as much as he's being promoted. He's being promoted a lot. But, you know, as, as red kind of teased with this whole he's a congressman thing. He's busy. You know, you can't just necessarily leave Congress and go be winter soldier all of a sudden, you know, there. There's gonna be a lot of eyes on you. But these characters, like, there's. There's potential in this movie to kind of make it absolutely fun. And I know that there's a couple of things that are gonna be very interesting. There's one thing I did want to mention.
Marvel clearly does not know how to handle Taskmaster.
No, just, I saw what Taskmaster looks like, you know, in. Because there. There's a couple of things with, like, the concept art. Some of these characters still keep, like, the look they have in the concept art, but there are very drastic costume changes for some of them. Like, Red Guardian has a very different costume from the one in the concept art. We kind of saw that at Comic Con, which is, like, red and yellow.
There were Taskmasters costume.
It looks. It has more of the comic accurate look. It's going there. It's getting there. She has the hood. You know, it has. It's kind of like a shield uniform in a sense. It kind of gives that look, but they really don't know what to do with the mask. You know, because the mask really, like, if you. If. If I had to describe the mask, how it looks, imagine.
Imagine if any of anyone has ever seen Red Hood from DC comics, just the way that helmet looks. That's exactly how Taskmaster looks. And the skull is just like, nah, it doesn't work, you know? And I thought to myself, you know, the Taskmaster design in black moot Widow was acceptable, but it wasn't necessarily 100% comic accurate. It was just kind of weird. And then in Thunderbolts, it just looks bad, brother. It's just. That's my take on it, but I'm not gonna let that distract me from this movie. I know it's gonna be 100% fun.
There is one theory I did want to say, because I don't know 100% how this is going to happen. I do know that there's currently a very, very high probability that a character, that one of the thunderbolts is going to die. And I talked to Brian about this. Brian knows what I'm talking about. The. The Marvel curse, that I don't think anyone has ever noticed. But it kind of makes sense how a father figure always dies in Marvel sequels.
It's very weird, but it's a thing when you think about it. Black Panther, Wakanda forever. Uh, you had queen Ramonda die in Guardians of the Galaxy, volume two. Peter lost both of his dads. He lost ego, and he lost, uh, and he lost his daddy. I forgot the name. Yondu.
He lost Yondu in, uh, in Avengers age of Ultron. We don't really see a parent, a father figure die, but, uh, you know, Thor.
[00:31:17] Speaker A: His father dies in Thor three. His brother dies. His brother dies in the second one. His father dies in the third.
[00:31:26] Speaker C: Yeah. No, but it's all.
[00:31:27] Speaker B: His mother dies in the second one.
[00:31:28] Speaker C: Yeah, in the second. There we go. The mother dies in the second one. You know, and cap two, there wasn't really a fatherly death. Well, Nick Fury. Peggy died in the third one.
[00:31:40] Speaker B: No, third one. Okay.
[00:31:41] Speaker C: You know, but in the second one, Nick Fury dies. Quotation marks. But he obviously comes back. But it. Quotation marks. Nick Fury died in that one. Iron man two. We're talking about Tony's dad's death. You know, there's a lot about, like, the history of the father and all that. And you also see the dad of Ivan van Gogh, the. The villain from Iron man two. You see Ivan die at the beginning of the movie. So Marvel usually has these things to kill a parental figure in the second moon, in the second part and, like, in the sequel of their franchises, Spider man two. Actually, now that I think about it, Spider man two, you saw the death of freaking.
You were talking. They were talking about the death of Tony Stark and the grief that comes with that.
[00:32:33] Speaker B: And man made us, too.
[00:32:35] Speaker C: In no way home on may dies. Yeah, but that's like a threequel. It's always like the second one. I'm talking about the cur. I'm talking about the curse of, like, Marvel movies and how a parental figure always dies in the second movie to kind of boost the plot. And it happens a lot. And my theory is they're gonna do it again in thunderbolts, and I feel like Red is gonna be very happy about this.
[00:32:58] Speaker B: They're gonna kill. I don't want him to die.
[00:33:02] Speaker C: They're probably going to kill Red. Guardian. I'm just saying they're probably.
[00:33:06] Speaker A: Red, why are you. Why are you twirling your mustache there?
[00:33:09] Speaker C: Leave me alone.
[00:33:15] Speaker A: What's interesting about these two films, though, that, back to back, is that phase five has been a lot of the multiverse, and we're ending with two grounded stories of, like, our street, like our, like our, like our global superheroes. I think it's interesting because what it leads into next, which is the phase six film, the next one that we saw footage of, which is the Fantastic Four, would now call Fantastic four first.
[00:33:42] Speaker C: Steps, which I think was an absolute mistake. It should have been first family, but go nuts. Marvel.
[00:33:50] Speaker B: I understand what they're referencing. I get it. It's a natural.
[00:33:53] Speaker A: Is it like a moon?
[00:33:55] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:33:55] Speaker A: The first steps on a moon. Yes.
[00:33:57] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:33:57] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, come on.
[00:33:59] Speaker A: Explains why the working. The working title is Blue Moon.
[00:34:02] Speaker B: Yes. I was gonna say, like, come on. Now.
[00:34:06] Speaker C: I know they're going to space. I know they're going to the moon, and I know. I know the whole thing. The thing is, it's not.
It's. It's like it was right there. Marvel's first family. It's, like, right there.
[00:34:21] Speaker B: I like it. I like it a lot. But of course I do.
[00:34:24] Speaker C: Oh, no. But I'll probably grow out of it. You know, I will say this.
[00:34:30] Speaker A: I was thinking that what it should have been. Cause I got the space reference, too, but what my brain went to, it should have been the Fantastic Four. A giant leap, because, like, one giant leap for mankind, and then that's what the film is gonna lead to, them leaping universes. To me, I was like, that was like, the better space reference there.
[00:34:49] Speaker B: Save it for the sequel.
[00:34:51] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:34:53] Speaker C: Save it for the sequel. The sequel, them adapting to another universe. Sure.
[00:34:57] Speaker A: Anyway, so they did not start filming this film yet. It does not start until Tuesday, apparently. But we did get some test footage.
What are our thoughts, boys? Because I've heard some mixed reactions. Seems like everybody seems to like it. But I think there's something that Alex pointed out that's very interesting about it.
[00:35:16] Speaker C: I thought it was a generated at first, I'm not gonna lie to you.
[00:35:20] Speaker A: It looked AI generated.
[00:35:22] Speaker C: I don't. I don't wanna. I don't want to lie. It really looked AI generated. And because I thought to myself, how the hell did they film this so fast? They started this week, you know, how did they get like them in costume and then it shoot all of these different sequences? And I'm pretty sure that most of this is just test footage. You know, test footage of them like auditioning and stuff like that.
[00:35:44] Speaker B: Chemistry tests for sure.
[00:35:46] Speaker C: Yeah, no, but there's.
Yeah, cuz it's probably. It's probably that. And I will give credit. One of the things that I love the most about Fantastic Four is I know that I knew the moment that they teased in, and everyone's arguing me with this all the time, like, no, it's. It was a music reference. They weren't referencing them about being in the sixties. Back in doctor strange two. Yes, they were. It's the reason why I literally wrote the article about why the Fantastic Four should be written. Should be in the 1960s. Literally not even a month after Doctor Strange two came out. Because we knew this was going to be the plot. But what we were not sure about was whether or not they were going to involve the multiverse or it was going to be, you know, set in 616. And then everybody just kind of forgot about them. But, you know, which we talked about.
[00:36:41] Speaker A: So I like we very early on, we had that conversation multiple times over.
[00:36:47] Speaker C: Multiple.
[00:36:48] Speaker A: Like that. This, like it was, it was happening. The sixties was like set so long ago.
[00:36:53] Speaker C: It was. It was so long ago that we, that we knew about, like this being said in the sixties.
And, and I was always intrigued about that notion because what intrigued me about it at first, when I heard about it being said in the sixties was, oh my God, they're going to talk about the Stark Expo. They're going to talk about Tony Stark. We're going to see Howard, we're going to see Peggy. You know, we're going to get that chance to see them again.
Yeah. No, and not. I mean, Hank Pym at that point, I don't think he was. I don't I think he had left shield by that point. I can't remember. The ant man movie time.
[00:37:28] Speaker A: Yeah, he left in the eighties.
[00:37:30] Speaker C: He left in the eighties.
[00:37:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:32] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. The mission was set in the eighties when. Yeah, when.
When freaking God was the name of Evangeline?
[00:37:41] Speaker B: It was a cuban missile crisis, I believe.
[00:37:43] Speaker C: No, what's the name of Evangeline? Lily.
Oh, my God. What's the. Janet. Janet. Janet Van nine. I remember it. Okay, guys, listen, I was in the hospital a few days ago, so my mind is still very tricky, and I had a massive headache yesterday, but I'm still working through it. Guys, it's okay. Yeah. Thank you.
But I was excited about it because they were gonna. They could have talked so much about, like, that particular era, you know, the cuban missile crisis, John F. Kennedy, all that stuff. And, you know, but them doing it in another universe, it kind of makes sense. And.
And the reason why they're doing it in another universe is, before we get into that, I did want to praise the particularity of getting Matt Shakman to do this movie after what he did with WandaVision, you know, and the way that he shot it with, like, the four by three ratio, the styling, the way he. The set design, everything that he did with WandaVision for, like, the first two episodes, it really made him the perfect candidate to direct this movie for the particular vision Marvel wanted to do. And then also this. This free reign of kind of like, you're going to get to do the Fantastic Four in a futuristic setting with.
With a sixties retro vibe. Honestly, I just. I love it. With Marvel going retro again, you know, I'm hoping we get to see some TVA styling. You know, the way that they had, like, that orange retro, but, like, this time, just give it a Jetsons vibe. Just, I love how this movie is giving me so many Jetsons vibes. But beautiful. Yeah. And listen, the fantastic car flying into haulage, one of the best things I've ever seen in my entire life. That was. That was goaded. That was absolutely like, we are going to flex our budget here. The holes. With a fantastic car flying in at Holly, I was like, damn, that's dope. But there is one thing that I didn't want to mention with this movie being set in another universe, and that's that Marvel is taking this movie to have the chance to show the audience what exactly can happen when a universe is about to end.
I'm not going to give too many spoilers on what that means, but just. Just think about how the possibilities of having another universe be introduced and just being given free reign to kind of explore what happens in a universe where it's not. Like, if this universe isn't the main one, the chances of it being destroyed are so much higher. Like, the chances of Marvel letting it be like Kapoor.
It works. And, you know, introducing Galactus at this point, very early on, is a. It's bold, but not unexpected. And the reason why I say this is, uh, you guys remember this character from Doctor Strange two called America Chavez, right?
[00:40:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:58] Speaker A: Never.
[00:40:58] Speaker C: What's her. Never heard of her. Me neither. What's her particularity in regards to the multiverse? Aside from the fact that she can travel to different universes, she's the only one of herself. Exactly. And the same thing I'm hearing goes for Galactus. Galactus is going to be the only individual from. In the entire multiverse. So this is the one. There is no Galactus variant. This is. This is him, period.
And, like, it gives. It gives me a very interesting.
It gives an interesting take to this character because it allows this. It give. It makes Galactus just this much more menacing, because you can immediately think to yourself, holy crap, this guy has absolutely destroyed other universes. Then if that's the case, if he's ever needed to feed his hunger. Right? So just the implication that he's the only one of his kind in the entire multiverse, and he's existed for a really long time just feeding off planets across not only one universe, but various, it really makes him just this incredibly powerful entity in the Marvel universe. And the implication for the Marvel multiverse overall, it's just. It's really great. And I'm glad they kind of waited to show off Galactus up until this point.
[00:42:28] Speaker A: I will say what I like about them doing in a different universe as well is not just like, can you see this whole world end? But it does introduce these characters without needing to try to explain it all away. Like, you know, because I remember when they first got the mutants, people were like, oh, you could just say that Hugh Jackman was there with Captain America back in the, you know, the forties, and, like, it was. It was just a thing, you know? And like, this. The way. The same way they did with Deadpool. It was. It exists in a different world. That's so easy and so complex, and it makes the story simple without having to backtrack and try to explain what people are going to be questioning about these characters in this world.
It's smart. It's just, like, a really smart, logical way to get them to this piece of the multiverse.
But this does lead. So we got this footage. We got to see the car. I love the futuristic feel. But the big announcement of the night was directors of our two next Avengers, a renaming and a casting.
So we're gonna get into that. The Russo brother.
[00:43:37] Speaker B: We do.
[00:43:37] Speaker C: But before we do.
[00:43:40] Speaker A: Go ahead, go ahead. Go back, go back, go back.
[00:43:43] Speaker C: I'm not done about Fantastic Four. I just go on.
I just know this is just a minor thing. It's not a spoiler or anything, but Michael Guillotino coming back to score Fantastic Four. Have you heard that score? Have you, like, it's the first time I've ever heard, like, a superhero's name be introduced into the theme. But just the choir going, fantastic four, it's like, bruh, that is.
Michael has done some incredibly good scores for. For marvelous. He literally composed the opening music for every single Marvel Studios film from 2016 onward. So, like, the opening credits that we hear the dun dun dun dun dun. That's him.
And obviously, Spider man, all the Spider man films, the score is fantastic.
And I did, like, the variation he did with the Spider man theme for the Marvel Studios logo for that one. However him come, and also, obviously, werewolf by night and all the stuff that he's done. I will say, though, him coming back to do Fantastic Four is just fantastic. And just the way he handled it with, like, Sci-Fi vibe and orchestra, you can kind of hear a little bit from it. When in, on Thursday, when they did the drone and they had, like, galactus coming in, you heard a little bit of Galactus's theme, and then you had the Fantastic Four logo show up in the sky and with the fireworks, and you just heard that music blaring, and it was like, oh, that is sick. That is absolutely sick. But now. Now we can transition to the next portion of the show, because it's important to note that the Fantastic Four will return for these next two movies.
[00:45:30] Speaker A: Yeah, both of them. And, in fact, I think they even said, or I should say, that I saw tweets that said in the hall, they said that the characters of Captain America, the characters of Fantastic Four, and the characters of thunderbolts are all coming back for both of these.
[00:45:44] Speaker C: That is correct. The Thunderbolts are expected to come back.
I 100% is going to be Yelena and Bucky Barnes. I don't think the others might come back, but Yelena and Bucky Barnes, 100% guaranteed, are going to show up. Cap four.
You have Captain America, you have Joaquin Torres.
I don't think Isaiah Bradley. Excuse me. Isaiah Bradley is going to be in. In this one. I don't think Red Hulk is gonna show up in this one, either, but. And then Fantastic Four, you're 100% getting all four of the. You're getting all four of the family. You're gonna get Franklin, so. Oh, yeah, that's actually a spoiler. Franklin Richards is in Fantastic Four, and the future foundation and I. That's going to be. The future foundation is going to be fun, because it's. Fantastic Four is not an origin story, per se. It's like, all right, here's a little bit of origin story. The Fantastic Four exists, and then, boom, jump start into the future, and the Fantastic Four no longer exists, and everybody's just kind of doing their own thing, and they only come back when Galactus decides to show up and destroy their world. So spoilers. Hey, but that's why we're here. That's why we're here. But, yeah, future foundation is going to be a very, very interesting plot point for this movie, in particular for Fantastic Four. And it's also going to be a very important part of the multiverse. If anyone's ever read secret wars, you know what I'm talking about. But anyways, moving on. Now we're. Now we can dive into the beautiful final announcement of the night from San Diego Comic Con.
[00:47:32] Speaker A: Yeah. So we have the two films back to back. Avengers films, May 2025. In May 2026.
[00:47:40] Speaker C: No. May 2026. And May 2027.
[00:47:42] Speaker A: You're right. That is. That is correct.
[00:47:46] Speaker C: Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I really don't want more avengers next year, please.
[00:47:51] Speaker A: But we. We originally thought. We originally knew it was going to be king dynasty and secret wars, and now there's been a name change. There's going. It's going to be secret wars still in the 2027. But 2026 is going to be doomsday with Doctor Doom, played none other by none other than Robert Downey junior. That was the big kicker of the night.
And, Alex, I know you're going to have a lot to say about this, so I'm going to give. Give us 1 second. Okay.
[00:48:19] Speaker C: That's okay. Yeah, you guys go ahead.
[00:48:21] Speaker A: First, Anthony. This was supposed to be the big reveal, the big hoopla, the big. Like, this was what people came to for Hall H. Did it do anything for you?
[00:48:33] Speaker B: I'm gonna be honest. No one. No one cares about my thoughts on this. They only want to hear what Alex has to say. No, no, I really. I really don't have much to say. Because I, I was getting prepped to, to follow everything along, and I fell asleep and I woke up at midnight. So, like, everything had already happened. So I was, I spent, like, probably an hour trying to get caught up on everything. And I'm like, damn, that's. It's something I would have never, ever, ever expected. Like, it was not even something I had, even as a joke, would I have said it? So it was, it was a lot to, uh, that information was a lot to process in one go because that, like, it was really a triple way of me. I mean, one, right. Uso brothers two, Robert Downey junior is back. Well, hold on. He's not Tony Stark. He's gonna be Victor von Doom. Oh. What? You know, like, all that at once was a lot to process.
[00:49:26] Speaker A: And buried in that news, too. We found out that the writer is no longer. Michael Waldron is no longer the writer either.
[00:49:34] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that too.
[00:49:35] Speaker C: Yeah, that was confirmed.
I think it was.
[00:49:38] Speaker B: That was like two months ago. Yeah.
[00:49:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
But by Nexus point news, the folks at Nexus point news, they kind of COVID that information. So, yeah, it was interesting. And now they got, uh, what's his name? Christopher. Yeah, they got one of them. They didn't get both. That, which is interesting to me. It was confirmed that the writer for both of these films is only Christopher McFree. It's not, it's not the duo this time around. So I don't know what happened there. But, yeah, I mean, maybe he's there. You know, I I know a hundred percent, though. Avengers, doomsday, unless they, unless they took out parts of their script, it's gonna be another Deadpool scenario where it's just gonna be writers and it's just gonna be a bunch of writers enlisted. You're gonna see Jeff Loveness at the top of that list, followed by Michael Waldron. And then this is, this is tough.
[00:50:35] Speaker A: I want to, I want to say about the Robert Downey junior thing, is that. Correct me if I'm wrong, Alex, you told me, you told me, like, a month ago he was coming back and it was going to be in a villain role. And we were kind of bouncing around ideas of how it was going to play out. And I do remember being, like, interesting. I don't know how it, I don't know how I feel about it. I don't know how it's going to play out. And I think I still felt that way last night when I said it. I, like, I didn't feel excited. I didn't feel like, like, anxious or like, upset. About it. I just felt like, it's weird, but I guess we're rolling with it.
[00:51:09] Speaker C: I need to, I need. The first thing I need to mention about the reveal was when they were, when he was about to take off his mask. I need to find video to see if, like, if I was hearing right before they took off, before he took off his mask, somebody in the hall screamed, Jared Leto.
[00:51:31] Speaker A: They did.
[00:51:32] Speaker C: And there was this moment of like, fuck, no.
It's like, it's like time froze in that moment. And I was like, fuck, no, that's not gonna be. They wouldn't dare do Jared Leto. And then Robert Downey Junior and then my, my brain immediately imagine being in front of an explosion. You know, when an explosion goes off, especially a nuke. A nuke goes off, and all you hear is just like, the tinnitus. It's just that. That's exactly what that felt like. There was no audience cheering for me. It was just a absolute shock. You could see the dolly zoom going into my face. It's just like, what in the absolute f is going on?
That was, it was wild. So you're, you're right in that we. I did discuss, and I've been discussing this for a really long time because I knew Robert was going to come back for secret wars. The thing was, when I, when I talked about what he was gonna be for the longest time, I was told he was going to be a villain goal, because that's kind of like what they wanted to do. They wanted to kind of have this, this hero of the universe, you know, because that's what he's revered at. In 616, they see Tony Stark as this giant hero who managed to save all of humanity from the threat of thanos. And it's kind of like one of those points where everyone knows that story, but just the thought that now a variant of him who has that exact same face is now the biggest threat to not only that universe, but the multiverse in general, is, is perhaps a very. It's a very interesting concept. And I always thought to myself that, you know, he would have been the villain for Avengers five, but as superior Iron man. Never in my wildest dreams did I think to myself it was going to be Victor von Doom. Never in my wildest dreams did I think, this guy is going to be doctor doom. And I know that a lot of people have literally, let's be honest, a lot of people give me a lot of shit all the time on Twitter and on social media. And I'm fine with most of it, most of it, because there's one thing I will not stand for, that's disrespect on my platform. Like, I will not, I do not tolerate people going up and saying, oh, you're a liar, or you do things for clout. I, I could be making money off my Twitter and I don't, every time I log in, all I see is like, you're missing out on ad revenue. And it's like, that's not why I do this. I don't do this for money or for cloud or whatever. I do it because I'm a nerd and I like explaining things to the public because if I don't explain it, there's a high chance people are not going to be able to understand it. And that's my take on it. You could agree with it, whatever. The thing is, the first person, and I'm going to say this, and I'm going to, and I give credit where credit is due. The first person who gave us the red flag that Robert Downey junior was going to come back, as do, was Jeff Snyder. Yeah, he wrote it. He wrote it on his blog and he even, he himself didn't believe it. He didn't believe the rumor to be true. And then immediately after what I remember, like, that was the first thing that came into my mind. Like where, where is Jeff Snyder now? And then, like I see his tweets and the first thing he says is I am releasing everything that source said right now.
Like, that's a bad idea. But then he, like in the, in those conversations, that very source which he posted said that the variance that we see of RDJ is Doctor Doom is Tony Stark. It's not Victor von Doom, it's just Tony Stark as Victor von Doom. And it's Tony Stark as Doctor doom. Which is why I refer to the Tony Stark variant as Doctor Doom. It's going to, it only makes sense for it to be Doctor Doom and not Victor, mainly because I feel like Victor should be someone else. I don't want, I don't want it to be associated that way. And if it's Victor at the end of the day, that's fine. Okay. I mean, sure, it sucks for casting purposes, but eventually they're going to find another Victor von Doom. The thing is, if anyone who's ever read secret wars understands, you know, what we're getting into, I don't want this to be, my issue with Doom coming in now is we're only going to get two projects with Victor Von Doom or Doctor Doom in this case, we're only going to get two projects with Doctor Doom, and that's it. And, you know, and you could say no, but he survives at the end of the secret wars comic, you know, when the universe is rebuilt and he has a beautiful face now and Reed gets the last laugh by taking away Doom's pain and making him beautiful again, you know?
Yeah, but like, the whole point of having Doctor Doom, I would have had Doctor Doom, like, lead him up to be this big, this big villain of an entire saga. The same way they built thanos from avengers one, which I feel like was the thing they were trying to do with Kang. They set him up in Loki and they continued with Ant man and the wasp, Quantum mania, and they were trying to set him up more and more and more. And now just, they course corrected over the entire thing. And as of right now, I want you to understand, like a lot of people have been asking me, what are they going to do about Kang? King is gone. Him and all his variants and the council of kings, they're gone. And it was implied at the end of Loki that, like, at the end of Loki when, and in season two, when they're saying that the TVA is rounding up all of the variants, that's it. That council of kings thing where they're all showing up at that stadium, we're just supposed to assume now that all of these variants of Kang have vanished and have disappeared. And that really pisses me off because, like you said, it's a post credit scene that leads to nowhere.
And it's like they could have recasted this character. I get it. They want, they didn't want to recast Kang, particularly because no actor in their right mind would willingly touch this role with a ten foot pole, because afterwards they would have to deal with all the backlash regarding Jonathan Millage firing and all of this since. And because that's the thing that trades do. Trades look for clicks with all of these types of articles and, you know, and trying to, like, spark up drama because that sparks abuse, which sparks up money, you know, and, and I get that no actor in their right mind would have, you know, no agent, because actors could probably think like, oh, this role is perfect because I'm in Marvel. But no agent or manager would have recommended them to join as the recasting of Kang, mainly because of the whole backlash that Jonathan Majors had. And these actors were 100% going to be asked about that regardless of the outlet.
So they just decided, you know what? Let's course correct and let's go with doom, which is just so lazy. It's lazy. That's because I love Doom. But again, it's lazy. You're just giving, sure, you're going to do secret wars accurately now, but at what cost? You haven't built up Doom. You're not going to introduce him in Fantastic Four because at least to what I, to what I'm understanding, Doctor Doom isn't even in Fantastic Four. Victor von Doom doesn't exist in that universe. We don't, we're gonna get an inkling at some point, maybe as a post credit scene, but for all accounts and purposes, Victor von Doom doesn't exist in the Fantastic Four universe as of yet. This stuff could change. They could introduce him. Now, this is stuff that has been, like, mentioned prior to the whole, you know, recast and Jonathan major situation. So this type of thing could change. Now, they might introduce Viktor von Doom. We don't know, but it's, but this.
[01:00:04] Speaker A: Is why they should have pushed out secret wars.
We needed time now. We need a time to have Victor von Doom be a villain.
[01:00:14] Speaker C: And honestly, secret wars with Doctor Doom, I mean, fantastic, literally, God Emperor Doom is just one of the, one of the best villains in the comics, but you're only going to get him for two movies. And then what are you supposed to do with Doom after that? You know, it's like, sure, bring him back as, as a villain in another Fantastic Four film. But you're gonna put my problem with Doom introducing Doom now and doing secret wars with him is you're going to introduce Doom at his peak.
You're going to put him at the, at the highest peak of his power. Introducing him at the highest peak of his power that whatever actor comes after Robert Downey Junior to do Doom in any future installment is going to suffer because the character is going to be, is going to be compared to Doom at his highest and they're going to do the same. It's, it's going to be another Hulk situation. We're like, oh, Edward Norton's Hulk was stronger than Bruce Banner and the trash that is smart Hulk, you know, and I, it's gonna happen. And it's what, it's what makes me mad about this. And it doesn't let me enjoy the fact that we're gonna get doomed. And, you know, the other thing is there's so many different stories that need to be set up beforehand because we need to understand that as of right now, leading into secret wars, and I mean, not even secret wars leading into Doomsday, the Avengers are not assembled at all. We don't even know what the Avengers roster is, because right now, the only, the only people that we know that exist within the Avengers are wong, the sorcerer supreme. Right. He's in there. Doctor Strange. He's in the Avengers. But guess where he is? He's in the dark dimension with Clea. That's one storyline that we have to address. In Avengers five, you have Carol Danvers, who is currently investigating the source of the bangle because she's trying to bring back Monica Rambo, which was supposed to be the entire point of an Avengers versus X Men storyline because it was supposed to. The idea that they, one of the ideas that they had proposed was the Avengers. Kind of like going on this multiverse thing. But it's, it's not necessarily like then going to get Monica more of showing what an incursion happens.
And because, you know, Monica is currently trapped in another earth. This earth involves the X Men, and this earth is currently Earth 10,005, according to what my sources are saying, which is the same universe Deadpool and Wolverine are set in. And the idea that Deadpool and Wolverine was trying to set up, you know, is in Deadpool and Logan's mind, they were trying to put the sacred timeline as the bad guy. You know, you have Paradox, who's offering the. Who's offering that Wade the opportunity to be a part of this universe. But at the cost of what?
What does Wade have to do to get to the. The sacred timeline and be a part of the Avengers and be a part of this entire group of heroes? His universe has to die. That's. That's the entire premise of, like, Paradox's mission of trying to get Wade to join the sacred timeline. So in Wade's mind and in Logan's mind and all alder variants mine, the sacred timeline is essentially just the. The main universe in quotation marks, but they all think they're the main universe. Like, they all think that Deadpool and Logan think that the universe they live in is the main one, and they have to protect it. The same thing goes for Electra, and the same goes for blade, and the same goes for gambit. You know, they all have to protect their own universes from incursions. And now the next incursion that was supposed to occur was Earth 616 and Earth 10,005, which is because of Monica existing in Earth 10,005 and her 616. You know, I'm not going to say DNA, because that's not the terminal, but her physiology existing from Earth 10,005 and from six one six entering to 10,005, it was going to lead to an incursion, and it's supposed to lead to an incursion which is supposed to have, you know, the avengers facing off against the X Men because they're all. They're not trying to fight each other for. For the purpose of, like, trying to eliminate each other. Like, in the comics. It's not an Avengers versus X Men scenario per se. It's just them trying to protect each other's universe. And in order to do that, they have to defeat the other one. So that's kind of like the gist of it. And then you had Carol Danvers trying to find Monica Rambo and using the bangles to try to figure out if there's a way to reopen the portal that connects both of these universes. Bruce Banner is supposed to come in and react to what's happening in brave new world. Now the government has access to his Hulk DNA, and now a billion versions of the Hulk can be synthesized and created at will. This was his number one fear. And this sets up another storyline, World War Hulk, where you have Bruce Banner and Jess and Jennifer Walters. Yeah, Jennifer Walters coming back in and joining with the Avengers to kind of handle this folk situation. You know, that's another storyline. What I'm saying is there are so many storylines that could have been done beforehand before getting into doomsday, before getting into secret wars and trying to join the Avengers together, because at this point, the Avengers are not aware of each other's existence because they're all in different groups and they're all separated. You have Sam Wilson with Joaquin Torres and Isaiah. You have Shang Chi with Katie in another corner of the universe. You have Spider man, who is literally out in New York, but no one knows who he is. You have Daredevil, which is in the exact same scenario. And they're supposed to be handling the. The kingpin versus mayor. The kingpin is mayor thing. And it's going to be addressed in Daredevil born again, which is like, Fisk becomes mayor, vigilantes get outlawed. He's after Daredevil, and he's after Spider Mandev. You know, and there, these are all storylines that are supposed to be addressed at some point within the next two years, and it is impossible. They're not going. They're gonna have. They're gonna address Spider man for sure because Spider man four is coming up, and they're gonna start filming relatively soon, in a couple of months. And great. They're gonna handle the vigilante storyline and the symbiote storyline, because, yes, the symbiotes gonna show up in Spider man four. You guys can relax. It's not. The venom thing was a. It's a. It's a play. Don't. Don't stress out.
But you have that. How are they gonna do Avengers Avenger Carol finding Monica? Are they gonna address that in Doomsday?
Doctor Strange being off in the dark dimension with Clea, who's supposed to somehow find Dormammu? Are they going to address that in that scenario? And then you have the. The whole Fantastic Four coming in from their universe into 616 at the exact same time. You're mixing a lot of different stories together, which is going to be very difficult for one movie to do. And that's my main concern, because you're introducing doom, you're introducing the Fantastic Four, you're introducing the X Men, you're introducing the story, the different storylines. And it's. It's stressful because I can't picture them doing this clean in the next two years. Unless the next. Unless we get, like an Avengers 4.5.
Like, there's a couple of dates before the May.
May 2026. I have to look them up. But there's a. There's. Yeah, yeah. I don't remember the dates particularly. I think there's.
[01:08:30] Speaker A: There's one before doomsday, and then there's two between Doomsday and Avengers. Uh, secret wars. I don't remember the dates either, but there is one is believed to be blade, but it almost. It almost doesn't fit. It almost like the story. Like, why introduce another storyline if we're like, you have other stories that you almost need to.
[01:08:53] Speaker C: And the thing is, there's. They're gonna introduce Blade, and then there's also Marvel zombies. Because Marvel zombies, you have Blade, who's also, surprisingly, the Fist of Khonshu, blade, moonlight, everybody. And it's just like, it's so much stuff happening. Not to mention, we're gonna get what if season three before we get Doomsday and secret wars. And that's just another thing you gotta take into consideration, because you're gonna get, uh, you're gonna get Watu and you're gonna get Captain Carter and you're gonna get Kahori. You know, you're gonna get them in the secret wars. And there's so many things that they want to do for secret wars that to me, the May 2026 and May 2027 dates are so. Are so weirdly positioned because to me, it just seems like they just want to get the multiverse saga over with. They don't want to deal with this anymore, and they're just like, listen, the month, they even made fun about it in Deadpool and Wolverine. Like, the multiverse thing is just kind of suckish. So we're like, can we just be done with it?
[01:10:03] Speaker A: The gays had it right with, with wizard of Oz.
[01:10:07] Speaker B: That line was great.
[01:10:08] Speaker A: It's true. We knew about it years ago.
Um, it does. It does feel like, I mean, I don't know how you felt, Anthony, when you saw it, but when I saw that they kept that date, I was there like, oh, they just want this to be over.
[01:10:22] Speaker B: That's exactly what I thought. I was like, man. They, uh, I kind of get it as one of those things. Like, it's a, you know, band aid sort of situation. You peel it off slowly, you just rip it off and get it over with.
I guess they're just going to rip it off.
[01:10:35] Speaker A: Like, they want the reset. Like, they want that fresh world that they can play in, that they have all these characters now. They have everything. Everything about Spider man and his world, basically. You know, like, they just. They wanted to be over with so quickly and sweetly and just move on with their life. You can't blame them.
Alex, what, what do you, what do you think needs, like, what is it absolutely needs to happen, then, before we get to secret wars and we have three movies that we don't know that, to answer it, if you had to pick your pieces, what pieces do you put in those puzzle pieces?
[01:11:09] Speaker C: Like, three movies before Secret wars? Yeah.
[01:11:13] Speaker A: Like, what is, like. And your idea, like, what are those pieces that, like, what are those movies that have to be there for secret wars to go off with, like, some kind of cohesive semblance of an ending?
[01:11:25] Speaker C: The thing. The thing is, they, they're still doing so many things. Like, for example, we're supposed to get a vision series in 2026, and we're supposed to get Wonder man at some point next year.
[01:11:37] Speaker A: Daredevil season two.
[01:11:39] Speaker C: Daredevil part two.
[01:11:40] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:11:40] Speaker C: We're gonna get born again, part two. And it's like, it's just so much of a mess at this point, because even if I tell you what I think should happen now, they're just gonna add more things that it just really doesn't. It wouldn't add to it. And it's funny because they're like, oh, we're gonna go with two to three movies a year and maybe two shows a year, you know, and yet somehow, you got all of these projects leading into 2026, and, you know, what would I do? What would I do? Okay, first and foremost, if we're gonna fix. If we're gonna in, the first thing that needs to happen, 616 needs to get their avengers in order. I don't care if it's the main avengers or if it's the young avengers, because I know that they're. They're trying to set up the young Avengers, but I don't want this to be like, let's have the Avengers on one end, and then the young Avengers are just the rookie sidekicks that show up for, like, quippy jokes in 15 minutes. Like, I don't want that. I want the young avengers to have their own story, their own proper introduction, which I heard was supposed to, like, tie into a certain avenger that a lot of people really, really, really like. And she has a lot of spans. A lot of them follow me on social media and, you know, often.
[01:13:07] Speaker A: Are you talking about a scarlet witch?
[01:13:10] Speaker C: Oh, my God. Don't say her name out loud.
[01:13:14] Speaker A: We summon them.
[01:13:16] Speaker C: I can already feel them rumbling in my room. I heard a disturbance in the scarlet witch horse. You know, and it was funny because we saw the Scarlet Witch and Deadpool and Wolverine, technically, like, on the statue, and it's like, that's interesting. So that's where the Wundegor mountain fell. It fell right into the void.
Anyways, leading away from that subject.
Leading away from that subject. No, I don't take my words seriously, folks. Don't. Don't take my. Don't take my.
[01:13:50] Speaker A: It's 1040 at night. We can't be held to what we're talking about here.
[01:13:54] Speaker C: No, not that. It's just because I know that what I know, they are all desperate for crumbs. You know, they all want. They all want things. And the thing with that is, the thing with Wanda is, right now, I know they want to bring her back. The thing is, Wanda's just very, very dead, and they really want to keep it that way for the time being. And it really sucks, because Elizabeth Olsen is just fantastic. And I know that she's going to come back, definitely will. But I don't see it happening as a part of 616, rather just a part of the multiverse, if she shows up before secret wars, and if not, then literally just as part of the reset that happens after secret wars, because the whole thing with secret wars is just, they're going to reset the Marvel universe and the Marvel multiverse and just kind of do a soft reboot, and there's just going to be. It's a continuation, but there's going to be variances. Some characters are going to come back. Some characters are going to be incorporated. Some things are going to be changed. And it literally leads into this conversation. I think I had it with you, Brian, a while back. That was about what did the original Marvel universe look like?
Because we know that the sacred timeline is a timeline that he who remains created. And there's this theory. There's this theory. You can see my air quotation marks, right? There's this theory that I wrote about how he who remains in Kang kind of created the sacred timeline without the Fantastic Four and without the x Men so that they could ensure that he could, you know, eventually rise to power and nobody could get in his way, and he could create the tv and all this stuff. So now that. Now that they're all going to be incorporated into the sacred timeline, uh, and they're going to be incorporated into 616, eventually, you know, we're essentially going to get what the main Marvel universe is supposed to look like prior to kang tampering and with. Tampering with the universe. So it's going to be interesting because we're essentially going to get what the Marvel universe is always supposed to look like from the very beginning, even from. Even from Iron man and the Infinity saga, which, like, these are the movies that people have grown up with for so many years. And it's such an. It's such a controversial idea that, like, the universe that we've seen and grown up with for so many years is not the. The original version of it. Now we're gonna see what this universe is supposed to be after secret wars, with the X Men, with the Fantastic Four, with the mutants, with Spider man, with the Avengers. And we're gonna get all of these interesting stories that I hope, you know, eventually we'll be able to continue and thrive. But, you know, if it doesn't end well, I could just very well say secret wars is, like, Marvel's big blast hurrah.
Before going in and just starting fresh with this new universe.
[01:17:18] Speaker A: Any last thoughts from either one of you about we saw on hall h, what's coming up? Good, the bad, the ugly?
[01:17:26] Speaker C: Anthony, you talk, please, because I need a lozenge.
[01:17:34] Speaker B: I'm glad that they focused on at least some of the short term for future. Short term future, like the upcoming films. And I guess I appreciate that they just kind of outright got the Avengers out of the way. The only thing I'm a little can confused and a little disappointed on is we didn't get a slate update. But I understand why they did that because they probably didn't want to disappoint anybody on any movements or just pauses. I mean, like, it's I hate to say it, but it's been five years and still no movement on blade. So, like, I can't imagine them coming out yesterday and saying, oh, by the way, this movie is still being worked on. It's coming. We just don't know when. So I get why they didn't mention it. I'm hoping D 23.
[01:18:23] Speaker A: D 23, baby.
[01:18:25] Speaker B: 23 says something. I'd assume they'll have some clarity there.
[01:18:30] Speaker C: We're going to get to, we're going to get two interesting panels that I think, well, there's a couple of panels that I think fans should really look forward to in the, in this year particularly. I know there's going to be more, but the ones I can talk about directly are D 23. You know, we're going to get a Marvel animation update and we're also going to get Marvel Studios update. And for D D 23, I'm expecting it to be a whole lot more about the Disney plus shows that are coming up. So Ironheart, Agatha, Daredevil, we're going to get updates on those a hundred percent. I know that's coming because I know that Daredevil has a trailer already. Agatha has a second trailer already, and Ironheart has a trailer already.
Wonder man. It's possible that they may announce it, you know, officially. Officially. Because, you know, it's, it's, it's been, it's been a while and it's, and they already have stuff ready for that.
[01:19:28] Speaker A: So I know that we're done filming, correct.
[01:19:31] Speaker C: It's already done filming. And they've already been doing post production for a while, you know, and I just, I just need to see what Josh Gap does in this show. Okay. That's all I need. Because just the idea of the man who brought Olaf to life is now in a Marvel production. It's like, what are you doing?
This is real quick interesting.
[01:19:51] Speaker A: I saw a Broadway musical with him in it back in December, and I have never laughed so hard in a musical that I cried. I laughed from start to finish. And if you didn't love Josh Gap before seeing Gutenberg the musical, I'm not telling people to go look for the slime tutorial of Gutenberg the musical on YouTube, but you probably should because it is hysterical. He can do no wrong in my eyes. I'm so excited for him to be in Wonder man.
[01:20:18] Speaker C: Yeah. So, yeah, there's D 23 now in August, in two weeks, which is going to be interesting for a lot of people. August 10, I think, is the date. I can correct me on that. But, yeah, we're going to get also Marvel animation. We're going to get a Marvel animation update. We're going to get updates on your friendly neighborhood Spider man. We're going to get updates on eyes of Wakanda. We're going to get updates on X Men 97, season two. And we're also going to get an update on what if season three. I know that they have a Marvel zombies trailer ready. The thing is, I don't know what the hell is going on with that show. I don't know if we're gonna get it, if we're not gonna get it, because the thing has been in limbo for so long. Like, listen, I. They recorded voice lines for Marvel zombies, and. Listen, I can. I can tell you, listen, by the time that we get Marvel zombies and we listen to the voices, Kamal. Kamala Khan is going to sound so young in that show. And it's not because, you know, Ivan Delany, like, changed her voice for the show. No, no, no. It's just that this was filmed a lot. It's. It's about to be, like, two, almost three years since they recorded lines versus Marvel zombies, and the thing still hasn't come out.
[01:21:40] Speaker A: I was gonna say, if I remember correctly. Correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't Chadwick Boseman actually record some lines for it before he passed?
[01:21:47] Speaker C: I don't know. I know simu Liu recorded lines in, like, 2021, I think.
No, 2021 or 2022. I don't remember. And it was.
And I remember that it was like, oh, I finished recording my lines, and. And it was like, yeah, it was 2022. Yeah, I remember. Because 2021, that's when Shang Chi came out. And then it was. It was in summer when he. When he talked about, like, how he finished that. So it was. It was, like, around 2022, he had finished his lines. So it, like, think about how long it's gonna be before we actually get Marvel zombies. But I'm. I hope that we get the actual update, you know, because we're gonna. This is the first. Even though it's only four episodes, it's the first Marvel show that's, like, animated show that's going to be tv ma. So it's gonna be very, very, like, gruesome. And I.
[01:22:39] Speaker A: Sure.
[01:22:40] Speaker C: And I really want to see it, because we're supposed to, like, mahershala Ali recorded his lines as blade, you know, and that's also collecting dust. And, you know, at this point, like, we kind of need to see what's going on.
It's been a minute. Yeah, I kind of want to see how that goes. And then also, apart from D 23 in August, there's also D 23 in November, which is going to be in Brazil. And I can confirm there's going to be panels about a lot of stuff at D 23 in Brazil because it's essentially going to be like Disney's version of CCXP or that place. And it's going to be held in the Zen. It's held in a very big coliseum in Brazil. And, and I can confirm from sources that work in that particular field down there in Brazil that there are panels that are being planned, and there is a marvel panel that will be that weekend at D 23.
And they've already prepared signs saying that no panel at D 23 in Brazil will be allowed to be recorded or photocopied at any point. You know, and that these panels cannot be recorded for any reason. So I am expecting some announcements in November, but at this point, what they could be, I have no idea. So, yeah, those are going to be some of the things that fans may want to look into as to how we move forward from this point.
[01:24:26] Speaker A: Sounds like we have a lot of good things to look forward to in the next couple of months. And as we go into September with Agatha all along and into February for Captain America, brave new world. But we also are pushing almost 2 hours on this podcast, so if we go any longer, Lizzie's going to kill us. Yeah. So with that being said, we are running out of time. We ran out of time 50 minutes ago, but we'd love to continue the conversation.
Check us
[email protected]. or you can find us on twitter or other social medias at my cosmic circus or our cosmic circus podcast, twitter at cosmicpodcast. Or if Lizzie sees how long this is, you might see us looking for jobs. I'm just kidding. Thank you so much for tuning in to the cosmic circle. My name is Brian Kitson, and you can find me on twitter 301 Alex anthony, it's always a pleasure. Before we can go, where can the people find you?
[01:25:19] Speaker B: They can find everything I
[email protected]. dot hey.
[01:25:22] Speaker C: Oh, yes. And you can find me on Twitter on Alex from Cc. And you can also find me on the cosmic circus writing my articles. You can also check out our discord. Just don't tag me a lot. Apparently, that's a rule. I didn't know about that rule that you can tag me, but, yeah, don't tag me a lot. And you can also listen to us on these podcasts. Us?
[01:25:49] Speaker A: Absolutely. And of course, besides just the cosmic circus website, we also have cosmic circus Broadway. So if you like Broadway, follow us along. We are doing great things over there. We have so much going on in the cosmos, and we just can't wait to take our next trip through them with you. Take care, everybody. Bye.
