[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome back to another episode of the Cosmic Circle, the official podcast of the cosmic circus. Today we're discussing the latest Star wars tv series on Disney, the Acolyte. My name is Uday Kataria, one of the writers at the cosmic circus. And joining me today are fellow writers Cam and Vic. Can you guys introduce yourselves?
[00:00:21] Speaker B: Hi. Hi, guys. It's me again. You might know me from other podcasts, such as the Doctor who ones and fallout tv show. I'm back for more.
[00:00:32] Speaker C: Hello there again. Let's talk about Star wars, because there's so much to talk about, and I can't wait.
[00:00:43] Speaker A: So I do have to issue a disclaimer. I'm not a huge Star wars fan. Honestly, before last week in the Acolyte finale, I didn't consider myself a fan at all.
I know a lot about the franchise thanks to the Lego sets, and I've watched everything post Force Awakens because one of my best friends loves Star wars. But I've only started to love some parts of Star wars in, like, the past year, thanks to Ahsoka. And now the Acolyte. And I do want to remind everyone that there are spoilers ahead. So we have two huge Star wars fans on this podcast. I'm sure they can fill in some of the gaps for us, but I just want you guys to know that I might not know everything talking about.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: So.
[00:01:26] Speaker A: First off, the acolyte is set a hundred years before the prequel trilogy. It's when the Jedi are at the height of their powers. I know that it's in the fading days of the High Republic era.
Did you guys enjoy getting out of, like, the Skywalker saga time period? Because I know I definitely did.
[00:01:43] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. Especially out of, like, the in between episode three and four era, which seems to have dominated most of Disney outside of the mandalorian. But no, it was very, very exciting to just sort of see a completely new era, especially like, bringing the high Republic onto the screen, like, in little bits the way it did, which I found very good. So, yeah, it was very nice to have a bit of a refresh of what we know as Star wars, which I enjoyed.
[00:02:16] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I was very happy to get out of Skywalker saga because I was so tired of, you know, writing a story that revolves around the Skywalkers in one way or another.
And here we've got. We finally got something that's set way before this era, to be honest. I really hope that the series will be set like, 500 years before and a hundred years before, but it's okay. I got through it, through with it. And it's really nice to see that Jedi are, you know, their. Their ego is really boosted. It's like going out the scale, and we can see how they're starting to become those Jedi from the Skywalker saga. And it's really nice to see how it all happened, how it all started, thanks to this series.
[00:03:13] Speaker A: I agree with that. I must confess, I find the Jedi very boring.
I'm into Star wars for the Sith stuff. I watched Obi Wan Kenobi for the Inquisitors. I don't care about Obi Wan at all. And so the acolyte was really interesting to me because it was sold as the first sith kind of tv show, but I was interested in the Jedi for the first time. I feel like the Jedi at the height of their powers and, yeah, like Vic was saying, with, like, their hubris and their ego and everything, like, starting to get the better of them.
That was super interesting to me, and so I would really like to see more of that in the future.
And so kind of jumping off of that, what was you guys favorite part of the show? Like, it could be a character. It could be a plot line. Vic, why don't you start us off?
[00:04:00] Speaker C: First of all, I'm gonna say that I've been waiting for the show for the last four years, since when it was announced, and I've been hyped all this time. I never doubted it. I never said it looks like it will be boring or anything.
So I just want to establish that, because I might be prejudiced, but coming to the. My favorite part of the show, it's hard because I just can't pick one. I love this show as a whole, because each episode has everything that I wanted to see, and they all give us one thing or another that matters in a way, till the finale and it all pays off. We can see how the already established characters in the universe, like Vernestra, are quickly introduced to new viewers, and we can already see how she is about us.
Or rather, I say, the biggest egomaniac in the whole Jedi order.
But I can pick one thing, because everything is so good that I don't want to pick one thing over another. It's. It's just a perfect show for me. I don't see any bad things about it in it, or I don't want to say anything that anything was horrific or terrible, but maybe when we get to another parts, I'll find something. I'll think of something that I don't like. Orlando, prefer one thing over the. Over the other.
[00:05:54] Speaker B: Um, I presume it's me now, so I will speak. Um, yeah, my favourite part has got to be, obviously, chimea Quimier, however you want to pronounce it. Let's not get into that debate. But, I mean, just manage a sinto, you know, what more can I say? But just the absolute best part of the series by far. Like, everything post episode five just brought the whole show up to, like, eleven because of him and, like, everything to do with him. I just really enjoyed, like, his whole character arc. Like, the way he went from one twin to the other, just like, you know, interweaving all that, like, learning that he was Venestra's ex Padawan, which just, like, blew open the door for me, being like, oh, my God, I'm desperate for a season two. I just absolutely loved everything to do with him. And, like, just the whole, like, you know, killing all the Jedi, like, the cool mask. Yeah, I can't, like, praise him enough. I just think, you know, one of the best sith in probably since Darth Vader, I have to imagine for me.
[00:06:59] Speaker A: Anyway, I would totally agree. My favorite part was not just a Khmer. Or I guess he's still technically called the stranger. Like, we're all just calling him, but in the titles, they, like, just call him the stranger. So I guess maybe we'll find out his real name if we go to season two.
[00:07:15] Speaker B: Probably Grogu or something.
[00:07:18] Speaker A: That's what I was thinking. I'm like, he's the next. The child.
[00:07:20] Speaker B: He's the next.
[00:07:23] Speaker A: But no, I. It wasn't just him, it was his relationship with OSHA. Because in episode five, it's like, yeah, we could kind of tell that, you know, they were doing the twin swap and everything, but it was just really well done. That's how I feel about this show. I'm like, all of these ideas. This is actually exactly how I feel about the rings of Power TV show where it's like, the showrunners have these ideas that, you know, we come up with as fan theories and we're nervous about them because we're like, oh, like, are you really going to execute that well? And then they just execute them perfectly. Because I was like, oh, the sith guy is just going to be Manny Jacinto. Like, okay, that's the most boring choice possible, but I guess it could be cool. And it was really cool. Like, episode five, I thought, was amazing. I totally agree. The show went up to eleven after that, and it wasn't just his, like, giant, sweaty arms.
[00:08:14] Speaker B: It was like, that helped. That helped. Yeah.
[00:08:16] Speaker A: I mean, it's even that it was like Leslie Hedlund said, where she's like, oh, he's gonna kill your favorite characters. But she had this quote where she's like, you're betraying the characters, too. Cause, like, just Jackie just got stabbed three times. But all you can think about is, like, get out of the way. Like, I want to see her behind the mask. And so I thought that that was done really well, and I love where Osha is going to, and I'm just really excited about that. So moving off of that, off of, like, the twin stuff, did you like the twin twist with Osha and Mei? I know it was, like, poorly hidden in marketing because I feel like everyone knew that there were going to be twins by the time the first episode came around. But how did you feel about that? Because it's kind of a soap opera y thing to bring into Star wars.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: Yeah, really? Like, that. They didn't spend the whole season with the first episode where it's like, oh, you know, osha and may, like, who's the real murderer? Kind of thing. Like, they got that out of the way super quickly. Like, oh, there's twins like, that separate. Like, there's no miscommunication for a whole season or anything, which I really enjoyed, but I really did. You know, Amandla played them both. I thought really, like, obviously, Mei and oscillator were very different.
It worked. Like, the whole twin swap worked. Like, when they were swapped into the different twins, kind of to get. May wanted answers. I mean, you could, like, even Sol could tell it was may still, but it worked for what it needed to be. And then at the end of the season, with may not remembering anything past being eight years old, I thought that is sort of a very interesting way to go because it's kind of a bit naughty of the Jedi order to kind of use her when she obviously needs help and stuff. And, like, is she going to end up being evil again, or is she going to end up, like, maybe being a Jedi? I think it'll be really interesting to see where she goes.
And then, obviously, on the other end of the spectrum, like, OSha started off a little less interesting, but got far more interesting towards the end.
So it was really interesting to see how she. Powerful she becomes. Like, even more so than Mei now. She's got her own lightsaber and everything. So I think that was really well done as well.
[00:10:38] Speaker C: I'm gonna say that at the beginning, I was very skeptical about this, because I already knew where this is going. Like, there's definitely gonna be some obvious twist in the end. They're gonna swap switch places at some moment, and I wasn't very happy with it, but the way they executed it was okay.
I didn't mind it, especially when we learned that Saul always wanted to say sorry to Mae for not rescuing her. And in a way, he does it on the ship, even. And just like you said, he knew all the time that it was may, but he didn't care until this particular moment when she wanted to escape.
The whole idea about making Osha and Mae the same person but in two separate bodies, it's something that I think will be explored further in the season two, as they were created by the force. And as Leslie Hadland already confirmed, it was Plagueis in the last episode that had. That made a cameo. And I think that's this is where the fun begins, because that way, we'll get the small intro to how Plagueis was studying the.
I don't know how to say this, but creating life using the force. Oh, okay. That would be the best explanation. And how he thought it. The serious. But I wonder how they'll explore the whole idea between having Osha as the fallen Jedi, who is now training to be a Sith acolyte, and Mei, whom, thanks to. I'm having flashbacks to knights of the old Republic, and I'm not gonna spoil why for the people who didn't play a game, that game. But if you play it, playing it, then you'll know where all of this is going. And I wonder how they'll explore it. And if there will be a choice, if Osha. If Mai will have a choice which side she'll pick in the end, when, when, or if she'll have her memories restored.
But I think that making Osha and May, the main characters of this show, instead of Seoule, who was main character in the beginning but was supporting in the second half of the season, was a very good idea, because that way, they gain more.
More positive arguments in their defense, in my opinion, in the end, rather than. Than that.
[00:13:35] Speaker A: I was raised on pretty little liars, so I love a good twin twist. So I was, like, really happy to see that come into Star Wars. I definitely wasn't sold on it for the first few episodes either. Like, the first two episodes of the acolyte, I was intrigued by the story, but I really wasn't liking, like, the editing of the show or like, the pacing of it. Something was off to me, and part of it is, like, Cam, you said that, like, they kind of switched where OSha becomes the more interesting character by the end of the show. I feel that so hard, because for the first, like, four episodes of the show, I'm like, osha sucks. I'm like, I'm sorry. She's fine, but I'm bored. Like, her sister is so much more interesting. And then by the end of the show, it's a complete opposite. I'm like, may, what the hell are you still doing here? It's not about you anymore.
And so just, again, like, being able to successfully do that in, like, eight episodes, I think, is really impressive. And I do want to shout out Amanda Stenberg's acting. I've seen people be really nasty to her on social media, and they're like, there's, like, this whole thing this past week of, like, oh, she can't act. And I'm like, okay, I'm sorry that you guys are blind, because from the beginning, like, it's just the subtle things, like the body language between the characters, the way they talk. I feel like I've never seen someone so good at playing twins where they feel like two completely different people.
[00:14:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:54] Speaker A: Like, I can't believe it's the same actress. Like, you could tell me Amanda Stenberg has a twin that's playing the other twin. And so I'm really impressed by that, and I really appreciated that. I don't know how I feel about them being one consciousness split into two bodies because they don't feel like that at all. They're such different people. I don't get that thing about how you're the same person in two bodies because they're very clearly like, different people. So we'll wait for a potential second season. But speaking of, like, immaculate force conceptions, what did you guys think about the coven of lesbian force witches? I love them. I thought that they were, like, the best part of the show.
[00:15:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I think both flashbacks together work a lot better than just watching the first one. For me, like, I felt episode three, I was like, I want to see where this goes. But with both of them together, it was sort of a lot better. Like, you learn a lot more about why they're on that planet with the vergence and the force and everything. And, like, the. All the interviews afterwards with Leslie talking about how it used to be some mining place and, like, the miners dug too deep, as they usually do, and all of that fantasy cool stuff, like, you know, when the dwarves dig too deep in the Hobbit or whatever, but yeah. Now I really like, I've watched them both back to back since then, and it is sort of like a whole better, much better complete story. Like, I really like Mother Anna Sayer. I thought she's very interesting.
High Republic readers will probably realize how sort of similar they are to the path of the open hand, which is like this other force cult that exists, like, 200 years before this, who hate the Jedi using the force. I thought that was sort of quite similar. Like, maybe there could be some connections there.
But, yeah, I really like the whole idea of them and, like, the practitioning the dark side. So they've been cast out from wherever they came from before. So I'd love to see where that happens. And I'm very interested in seeing where it goes with this sort of twins, two bodies, because obviously they were created for someone or something like the think mother Corrill says that, oh, if the Jedi find out why the twins were really created, know there'd be something worse. So that'll be really interesting to find out about. But, yeah, no, I did enjoy them. Sort of like to see more of them if mother Coral's still alive, which I feel like she might be if she's floating around in a weird, dusty area or something. But we'll see. We'll see what happens.
[00:17:37] Speaker A: Yeah, that was, that was one of my points is that do you think mother Coral is alive? And if she'll return? Because Leslie did say if you didn't see a body, that doesn't mean they're dead. And she also said that if there is a season two that coral's species hints at, like, the history of coral spawns hints at what might happen to her. And I'm like, okay, so she's gonna get cut in half and get little robot chicken legs.
[00:18:02] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:18:04] Speaker A: But, Vic, what did you think?
[00:18:07] Speaker C: I mean, I didn't have any problem with them. They were really nice. I mean, I don't know why. I don't know why.
[00:18:15] Speaker B: People that are really nice, lesbian space witches. What are you, Chad?
[00:18:18] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. I want to join them. Yeah, but to be serious, um, there are different species, different religions in Star wars. Like, white people are hating them. Why, I remember the same, which is called with only woman was on Datumira, and white people weren't hating them, because in animation and live action. Yeah, but those, those haters aside, I really enjoyed how they show the witches who are using the force as another weapon, but rather the everyday help to grow plants or whatever. They explained it in the show. I don't remember exactly how Madara and, say, I explained it, but when I heard that the girls were created using the first, I knew. Okay, okay. Midi Koreans. Sorry, M Count. M count was involved, so they created another powerful Jedi or forces.
And I wonder if it's even if Osha and Mei being created has anything to do with Anakin Skywalker, where they were they, the chosen ones a hundred years ago, who are meant to bring the balance, and something happened, or nothing. But I wonder how they'll explore the cult further, because, as you mentioned, mother quarter is still alive, and maybe she'll try to rebuild the coven, and she already did it because there were 60. What happened in the flashbacks and what was happening now, it was 16 years apart, so everything could happen. But I really don't understand the hate, because they had a purpose.
All that they said had a logic in it, especially the part where she said, where Madran says to solve their ambitions will end their order one day, and she wasn't wrong because it was all perfectly proven later.
And I don't even know what else can I say besides that I like them? I don't know why people are hating them.
I know why they're hating them, but I don't want to say it.
Yeah. And let's. Let's end on this.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: Yeah. I I very much enjoyed the coven of witches. I loved the two mothers. They are mother.
I loved Jodie Turner Smith. I thought she did a great job. I keep hearing Jodie Turner Smith's name. I think this is the first thing I've actually seen her in, though. And I thought she was excellent. I was very upset that she died. Like, in the flashback. I'm like, you should be a character in the present day. Um, and honestly, my dream would be that mother coral comes back, and she and Osha team up and, like, are just a couple of, like. Or, like, a mother daughter, like, not sith team, because we know there's the rule of two, so we know that Osha and Kamir are gonna, like, probably die because Palpatine is gonna show up, and I don't want that to happen. So I feel like Khmer is definitely gonna die. Cause we're assuming he's plagueis apprentice.
But I'm like, osha doesn't need to die. She can just take her red lightsaber and go gallivant around the galaxy, live happily ever after. So.
So, yeah, so that's. That's what I think. I thought it was very interesting with the whole coven storyline to see the Jedi coming in and basically being missionaries. That's what people, like, were comparing it to, that they're missionaries visiting, like, another, like, religion. And it was just fascinating to me how.
I don't know, like, because I know the Jedi are fallible and, like, that the Jedi have, like, a big ego. At this time, I thought that they had told Indara. Like, when Indara was like, I haven't heard back from the high council.
I thought the high council had told Indara, hey, you need to kill them all, because no one can practice the Force except us. So I thought that she was, like, a sleeper agent on a secret assassin mission. And I was really surprised to find out that they were like, leave them alone, and, like, you know, don't bother them, because that's not what I expect from the Jedi. And so it was very fascinating to me to see how they were all just nuts and completely, like, disregarded orders and all this stuff. I thought soul was really creepy. I liked him for the first two episodes, but after finding out what he did, I'm like, there's something fundamentally wrong with you that you feel the need to kidnap a child so much so that you would, like, kill her entire family. Like, yeah, that was fascinating. I also do think that, like, I can see some criticism with that. Like, I don't think the acolyte had bad writing overall, but I feel like that was kind of confusing.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: Why would act like the only thing writing wise was there should have been a little bit more motivation from some of the characters. For me, that's about it, really. But, like, soul needed a bit more motivation for why he wanted, like, mai and Osha so badly.
[00:23:38] Speaker A: Like, and Corbin was, like, so obsessed with going home. But I'm like, haven't you been trained as, like, a Jedi since, like, the time you were a baby? Like, you knew that. You knew what this was. Like, leave the order if you don't like it. Like, no one would blame you. I wouldn't do that. But, like, I don't know, it felt kind of strange to me. And then also the thing with Torben being like, oh, we need to take the girl so we have proof of the virgins, because, like, look at their m counts. Their m counts can only be this high if there's, like, a vergence. But I'm like, you have their m counts. You took their blood samples. You have the data on your computer. Why can't you just take that data back to the high council? Why do you need the living children? So that made no sense to me because I'm like, you have data and proof.
[00:24:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's because they were told to stay on the planet and finish the mission, but he wanted the kids so they could go home early kind of thing, instead of. Instead of just rushing back with some blood. Maybe I don't have to rewatch them, but I think that was the idea, that they were told to just stay and then.
[00:24:41] Speaker A: But, yeah, I don't know. I guess, like, do you think the Jedi that were stationed on Brendok deserved what happened to them? Because I don't know about the others, but I freaking hated soul by the end, I was cheering at the tv screen when OSHA was choking him to death because, how are you? How do you still think you're in the right after all this?
[00:25:03] Speaker B: Yeah, he was very much like, sorry that happened to you, but, you know, what I did was right kind of thing. Like, by the end of it, I mean, I do have to shout out props to Lee Jung Jae for this role, because this is his very first english speaking role. Like, he learned English just for the acolyte, which I just think I just want to spread that. Like, I tell everyone that I know that he learned English for the role, which I just think was astonishing because he was such a good actor. Like, you can see why Leslie kind of wrote the role for him. And, like, you know, it was really nice Jedi at the start. Like, really lovely. Like, really nice to see him back with Osha, but then he's just such, like, a deranged little man by the end. Like, it's. You kind of want Osha to kill him just so that she doesn't have any connection with, like, the man that murdered his mother anymore sort of thing, but, yeah, so definitely could do, like, a whole separate podcast on the motivations of Saul, I think.
[00:26:07] Speaker C: But, yeah, we should write a master thesis about it. Definitely.
Yeah, but I'm gonna say it. I don't know if you agree with me. You may laugh at me, but Seoule just landed in my top three of my favorite Jedi, and it was. I don't know how to explain it. Besides that he was perfect up to the last episode, but his perfection and his flownness was also perfect.
I don't know if you. If you know what I mean, because the way he was written was so perfect that I didn't care till the last minute that he was the bad one in the end. But I can kind of understand his motivation, why he understood why he thought that what he did was right, because he kind of had this connection with Osha, that he treated him her like his and daughter, and he could see it. And, you know, every parent thinks that if they did something horrible that kept their children safe, it was right to do no matter what. And I could understand it. And do I think that they deserved their fate?
No, but I can understand why Leslie wrote it so. Wrote it like, so they did. Because in the end, in episode seven, you can understand that only Saul and only Torbin are the ones responsible for what happened there because it all started with turbine and Seoule didn't stop him.
So I think that only they should be the ones to die and Indira and Kalnaka should be kept alive.
But there are still things that we don't know. We didn't see the big we didn't see explained because we still don't know why Kalnaka was studying the coven.
And that's one of the things that I think should be explored in season two, even either in a form of flashbacks or as a.
As a maze adventure, when she discovers exactly what happened on Brandon was once again. Yeah, but you were saying that whole was delusional and he couldn't see how he was in, how he was in the wrong, but I think he could see, but he just didn't care because he may knew what will happen to him. So maybe.
[00:28:59] Speaker A: Yeah, and I get what you're saying where you think that, like, soul was perfectly written because I guess he was the perfect Jedi. Like, he was the perfect Jedi for the first, like, six episodes, and then he was the perfect failed Jedi for the last two. Like, he had all of the good of the Order and all of the bad in him. Right? Like, he had all of the skills and all of the knowledge and all of the ego and arrogance. So I do think that, like, he's one of the best Jedi I've seen, like, from Star wars. Again, bearing in mind that I haven't seen most of the original trilogy or the prequel trilogies, so on Disney and in the sequels, I definitely think he's one of the best Jedi I've seen. I saw a lot of people comparing him to Qui Gon, and so I haven't seen Qui gon, but, like, I know of him. And so I'm like, I can see the connection there.
But, yeah, I kind of agree in that. Like, it really sucks. Like, I thought Indara was gonna be some kind of, like, evil, like, mastermind, and then. No, it's just like her friend did something really shitty. Yeah.
And. Yeah, and she died for it. I will say she did. She was the one who had the idea to cover it all up, so. But again, like, does that really make you worthy of death when your padawan and your friend are, like, the ones that went in and, like, oh, I mean, I guess she also killed the coven, but. But that was also defense. So I don't know. It's just a really, really messy situation. But. But, yeah, I agree in that it's really Sol and Torben that deserve to suffer for what they did.
And then. Okay, and then I want to talk about episode five, because I think that that was, like, a major turning point. It had the deaths of several main characters. What did you think of that episode in particular? And, of course, of Yord and Jeky's deaths?
[00:30:49] Speaker B: I mean, so brutal. That's the main thing. Like, I just think, like, the whole wait after episode four with the, like, the reveal of the stranger, like, floating down to Osha, I thought was beautiful. And then episode, like, the. Just the week, I just remember that week long wait, and I was like, oh, my God, what the hell's gonna happen? And then just episode five, and it was like, death, death, death, death. You know, so much death. But, yeah, I thought they were sort of very brutal deaths. Like, I enjoyed, like, the neck snapping of Yord and then his body just being tossed away like a ragdoll, which I found hilarious. Like, later on, like, at the time, I was like, oh, my God. What the hell?
And then Jackie being stabbed like a piece of cheese, I thought was also.
But, you know, they had some of the best fight scenes. Like, Jackie Jewel wielding was, like, everything you want to see from, like, a Jedi. Like, it was like a young ahsoka kind of thing.
If anything, it was worse in, like, the next episode when they just showed, like, close ups of the dead bodies. I thought that was, like, a proper jump scare. But now, episode five was definitely when the show sort of really found itself. I think it did take a little while. We'd obviously had the weird cliffhanger endings and the cuts and stuff for the first three, but I feel like everything after that sort of just went upwards. And then obviously, you have the stranger who was like, you know, one of the best sith, like, explaining that all the Jedi have to die because they've seen his face, and they all end up do dying, like, even if Sol takes a little while longer. So that was good. And I think it was really good that they didn't just kill off, like, the no name Jedi. Like, they killed off the no name Jedi and the other ones that you'd sort of grown to love a little bit, especially Jackie, like, yord. I was like, it just reminds me of Cyril from Andor in, like, the sort of pathetic little guy kind of aura.
But, yeah, no, I did really enjoy episode five. Definitely one of my favorites. I think.
[00:32:54] Speaker C: There is a blueprint that Disney uses for their shows, and it's always make the episode five always the best the series.
[00:33:04] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I forgot about that.
[00:33:06] Speaker C: Yeah. And it's the same here. And I really enjoyed it, especially the fact that they didn't kill all the Jedi at once and that they made Jackie's death after her showing us of her skills with double lightsabers. And I. I felt like that's what a live action clone wars should be like. That's the fight style that we expected, and it was really nice to see, but I'm kind of sad to see them die. But when they started, when they showed off Ki Adi Mundi an episode before, and I was like, okay, why this traitor here? Why is he here?
I already thought, yeah, they were gonna die because he didn't even mention this event in the phantom menace, so. Yeah, and for the old people who say that it's breaking the canon, no, it's not breaking the canon, because in the end, Vernestra confirmed that it was Saul who killed them, and that's why ki Adi Mundi told that, why ki Adi Mundi was thinking that there was no soul before, so. Yeah, but episode five was, oh, it was amazing how I rewatched it three or four times after. So, yeah, I really enjoyed those lightsaber battles because that's why we're watching Star wars. That's why. That's why I wanted to watch this show, because it was a proper Jedi show. It wasn't in the Skywalker saga, it wasn't during the Clone wars era or the Jedi, from the Jedi fallen order till the return of the Jedi era or after. And it was before, so I really wanted to see some more lightsabers, and I was happy that I got it. Even for the one episode.
For the whole one episode, it was great.
[00:35:10] Speaker A: Yeah, it was the best lightsaber action I've ever seen, for sure. I loved all of the fighting because I was a little bit let down by the fighting in Ahsoka. It felt very slow and, like, deliberate at certain points with her fights, and I just rewatched all of Ahsoka, like, two days ago. And so seeing it versus the acolyte, I'm like, the acolytes action is just so much more like twirly and fast, and, like, it's just really, really well done, the fight choreography. And I agree. I liked Jackie. I liked Jord, but I really, really like Leslie Hedlund's instincts as a showrunner. You know, where she's saying that she killed off the red shirts first so that you don't think your favorite characters are gonna die, and then she's gonna kill them in a way that makes you betray them, like, in their moment of death. I'm like, I really like the way she's thinking, because Jackie got stabbed once, and I'm like, she's fine. Sabine got stabbed like that.
[00:36:03] Speaker B: A lot of people.
[00:36:06] Speaker A: They stabbed her three times so that you would know that she's dead. And then even Jord. Yeah. Like, your died so quickly, and, like, with the next snap, I'm like, who dies with a freaking neck snap in Star wars? Like, it's usually going to be at least, like, a forced neck snap. So I gasped at my screen when that happened. I was like, I thought that it was very, very well done. And again, I do think that they have the liberty to do these things because they're out of the Skywalker saga. I cannot stress enough how much I don't care about the Skywalker saga time period. Like, everything in Star wars happening within the same 60 year time period. I hate it so much. And so when you start getting out of those constraints and you start doing new things, that's when, like, you get people like me into it. And so I know that, like, there were a lot of complaints from established fans, but the thing is, like, the established fans are going to hate watch it anyway. Like, Star wars needs to bring in new people, you know? Like, I feel like it needs to. To be able to get people like me actually excited about it after resisting for so long. And I do think the acolyte is doing that, and so I feel like we need more shows like that.
[00:37:15] Speaker B: Yeah, that's why I think the Ray movie is gonna do wonders, because that's set, like, 15 years, like, after absolutely everything. So I think that's gonna manage to bring in a lot of new fans. I'm interested in that, which I'm excited for.
[00:37:30] Speaker A: I know. Well, my issue is that, like, I know that there's this whole thing about Star wars being cyclical in nature, right? It's always, like, the rise of the dark side, the rise of the light side, like, blah, blah, blah. And so, for me, like, I just assumed the Rey movie is going to be about her rebuilding a Jedi temple that ends up getting destroyed. Like, I can't picture Star wars actually changing, like, to that extent. If it does, I'll be really pleasantly surprised. But, like. So I'm interested in the Rey movie. I just don't believe it's going to be different.
[00:38:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:38:03] Speaker A: So I'm. So. So I'll wait to see that.
But I guess, speaking about, like, the older movies, what about this series connection to the prequel films? I can't really speak to this, but obviously, we saw Darth Plagueis in the finale. We know there's the rule of two. Like, if Khmer is his apprentice, which he must be, why is he letting Khmer train Osha and Mei? Like, as an acolyte? He clearly knows what's going on, because.
[00:38:28] Speaker C: It'S exactly what Count Dooku did.
[00:38:30] Speaker A: I was gonna say, does he just respect the. Does he respect the hustle? Right.
[00:38:38] Speaker C: If you watch the Clone wars, you're gonna see weird things happening, because there's darcidious Kamduku Azerjvantras, and Dooku is apprentice of sidious, and Dooku has an apprentice, Asajj Ventress, and then Dooku has an apprentice, Savacha press, who then ends as an apprentice of Darth maul. And everything is weird in the end, but as you mentioned, that they'll die or they'll live, in my opinion, Kimir and Osha will leave, train on their own or something, or be mercenaries or there was something similar to what Queenland was and the Asajj Ventress were after the Clone wars, and they won't necessarily be dead, so they can have their own show or anything. But I think that Plagueis will see his failure in Kymir and will make sidious.
He'll try to make sidious into what he wanted Kimir to be. So we'll see. Also, I've. I don't know if you've read those theories come, but do you also think that this young chap that was so eager to arrest Saul is young Palpatine or something?
[00:40:05] Speaker B: Mog. Mog. My favorite guy. Mogadishe. Uh, yeah. I can see why people would think, because I feel like. But I don't think he's supposed to be. I think, well, Palpatine's not even born yet. I don't think. How would he be?
I think he thinks so. But, yeah, I mean, if Mog ends up being, like, the main villain of the series, like, I will, like, eat my hat or something, but I don't think so.
I did really enjoy mog, but, yeah, obviously, there's a lot of prequel connections. Like, as Vic said earlier, there was ki Adi Mundi, which obviously raised a lot of debate, and then there was a whole thing about age discourse. But people who've read the high Republic books know that there's, like, several of the Jedi Council that have lived for hundreds of years. So what's one more? Like, who really cares in the big, grand scheme of things, there was obviously all of the kind of stuff to do with the Jedi. Like, you had the bit in the very last episode with Senator Raincourt wanting, like, the, what's the word? Overview of the Jedi order, which obviously could mean that it leads to the Republic and the Jedi working even more closely. Like, we see them in the prequels, where they send the Republic sends two jedi to deal with the trade dispute on Naboo. Sort of kicks everything off, but, so it'll be interesting to see what happens between the Republic and, like, the Senate and the Jedi, I think, as we get through the show, sort of leading on to that, and obviously we want more David Harewood, because it's David Harewood. I thought he was going to be a Sith when it was rumored that he was part of the thing, but I'm pleasantly surprised.
Other prequel connections.
[00:41:51] Speaker C: Maybe he is.
[00:41:52] Speaker B: Maybe he is. I mean, he could be working for Darth Plagueis, because I think in the book, Darth Plagueis is like some rich, like, businessman that has connections in the Senate, so who knows? But other people, obviously, we had Yoda's ugly green head at the very end of the episode covering up another thing, which also happens in the high Republic. He covers up plenty of stuff in those books, so there's nothing new there, but. Yeah, no, it'll just be because. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of prequel connections and a lot of high Republic ones, so I'm really enjoying the big mix of them both.
[00:42:32] Speaker C: Yeah. And I also noticed some old Republic Easter eggs, not only from the games, but from the lore, and was really nice to see. There was also one Easter egg from one of my, regarding one of my favorite characters from the old Republic, and it was really nice to see. And I I wonder what they will do next, because as you mentioned, some of the characters from the books that happened. The books happened around 100 years before this show. Some of the books. And to my surprise, Veronestra was one of those characters that are much older in this show.
I think she'll be around 150 to 100 years old by now.
So, yeah, I wonder who else they'll bring back, because it will be nice to see some of the jedis from the old books to see again and explain it simply by, okay, they are different species. They look like human. They're not human species. They live longer, and that way you can bring them back. Also, showing up the Yoda puppethe that was used in the old movies and in the last, it was nice to see, not a CGI model, even for third split second.
But I'm afraid they'll bring him back.
If the season two will indeed happen, then they'll bring him back in a supportive role. In a supporting role to appear through more than one episode. And I'll be both happy and exhausted at the same moment. Because you love Yoda, but you're kind of tired of him.
[00:44:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't. So obviously I haven't seen Empire strikes back, so I don't get the Yoda hype. The only thing I've seen Yoda in is his force ghost appearance in the last.
[00:44:33] Speaker B: Yeah, there is no Yoda hype. And then everything is right.
[00:44:39] Speaker A: Well, so my thing is, like, I don't care about Yoda. Like, nothing about him appeals to me. Um, I'm like, he's just a tiny little, like, old man. I'm like, okay, can you, like, let other people do stuff for once? Um, so I don't know. So, like, when I saw his little green head, I'm like, okay, that makes sense that she's going to Yoda. But I'm like, you're not the shit anymore. Like, I want the little one. I like the baby.
[00:45:01] Speaker B: Like, yeah, it's Grogu's time.
[00:45:04] Speaker A: Like, yeah, put. Put Grogu's dad in here and then we'll talk.
[00:45:08] Speaker B: Yeah, so maybe it is Yoda. Who knows?
[00:45:12] Speaker A: I'm like, if Grogu's dad is Yoda, that means that Yoda would be fathering children at the ripe old age of like, what, 850? Or like, 900? I'm like, go to jail.
[00:45:20] Speaker B: I mean, there was, there was like, yaddle at the same time, so.
[00:45:24] Speaker A: Oh, right, I forgot about her.
[00:45:26] Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm like, why can't we see yaddle as well? I would love to see Yaddle.
[00:45:31] Speaker C: Maybe she wasn't born yet or something. I don't know.
[00:45:34] Speaker B: Who knows?
[00:45:35] Speaker C: Yeah, we don't know how their species work.
[00:45:37] Speaker B: I know she was born because she's in the high republic, so she is.
[00:45:40] Speaker C: Yeah, I know.
[00:45:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:42] Speaker C: But. But from what we know, the shows are in particularly how to say they really don't like the connections between books and the shows because Filoni already changed some things in recent shows regarding the books, etc. But also regarding Vernestra and daughter, I saw funny meme that this. This moment, this feeling when your dad lets you make a party, but in the end, you failed at everything you planned, and you go to daddy to rescue the situation. Like, we have to talk.
[00:46:15] Speaker A: There were so many funny memes coming out of this show. Like, Cam, I love your Twitter account. Like, you were tweeting the funniest stuff every week. And I saw one. I don't know if it was from you, but I saw one where it was, like, when you, like, a green alien, come across another green alien. How to maximize your cover up.
[00:46:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's probably someone from high Republic Twitter. Like, you know, we really hate Yoda on that side, but.
[00:46:42] Speaker A: Yeah, well, that's the other thing. The first time I was, like, on Star Wars Twitter, because, like, people talk about, like, part of the reason why I watch everything, even though I don't consider myself a fan, which seems insane, I know, but, like, I'm in the know anyway because I'm super into Lego, and Lego Star wars is, like, one of the biggest themes. That's why I know everything that happens in, like, basically every Star wars, even though I haven't seen or read most of it. It's, like, just because I've read Wikipedia after seeing a minifigure in a Lego set.
But then it's also because. Yeah, like, the people that, like, I like the circles I run in on Twitter, like, with superheroes and everything, everyone's also talking about Star wars. So if there's a Disney show coming out, like, yeah, I watched Boba Fett. I'm like, it's one episode a week, and then I'll get what people are talking about, so why not? And it tied into the Mandalorian, so that's why I watch everything. But this is the first time that I've seen Star Wars Twitter be so, like, alive and, like, engaged. And maybe it's just because I was engaging more as well, but, yeah. Like, I feel like there was a lot of hate against the acolyte, but starting with Khmer's beefy arms in episode.
[00:47:45] Speaker B: Five, it all drowned out. That was like a tidal wave shift, I think, and just. Yeah, so many people, like, watching the show just for money. Justin. No, we were talking about. Yeah, like, that is, like, his power.
[00:47:58] Speaker A: Yeah. During lunch at work, we were talking about how, like, there was so much hate on the show, and the only thing that could drown it out was, like, manny just ended up taking his, like, shirt sleeves off.
[00:48:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, you know, thank you, Leslie, for giving topless money just in, like, what's not to love?
[00:48:13] Speaker A: Yeah. So I don't know. I just. I do think that this show, like, really excited a lot of people and did not excite some people, but I really hope it gets a second season. I think that there's so much more to explore here. I need to see more of Osha's, like, corruption, and, like, when she and Kamira are holding hands at the end, I'm like, that's, like, best shot in Star wars. Like, that's amazing.
[00:48:40] Speaker C: All that it missed was two sons.
[00:48:43] Speaker B: Yeah. I was gonna say the planet needed two suns to really, like, hone in the message, and I want to know.
[00:48:49] Speaker A: If that planet is where Luke was at. Ahch to. Right where Luke was hiding out.
[00:48:54] Speaker B: Yeah. A lot of people think it is very similar, but I think Leslie said it's, like, not. In one of the interviews, she said.
[00:49:02] Speaker A: They didn't film it in the same place. But I swear, like, when Osha woke up there and was hearing little noises, I'm like, a porg is gonna hop out.
[00:49:11] Speaker B: Instead, we got the weird little, like, anteater bird things, which are just as cute.
[00:49:15] Speaker C: But, yeah, I think they shot it in Ireland, and that's why it looks similar. But I also thought at the beginning, that's the angto. But I think it will either be angto or it will be either something completely else.
[00:49:31] Speaker A: But, yeah, people were posting something from the wiki about a sith planet that had cortosis deposits on it. Like in legends.
[00:49:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's in, like, the. It's in a book or something. Like, it's described very similar, so, yeah.
[00:49:44] Speaker A: I'd still be interested in that.
[00:49:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:49:47] Speaker C: Also, about the height.
One quick word. We all know that it started with the fire in space.
It was the brick of domino that started all.
[00:49:58] Speaker A: Yeah, you know what? Like, okay, I will say that I don't have a problem with the fire in space, but people were like, oh, it's like, the noise, and it's like, okay, I could get that. It's like that they put in, like, a campfire sound effect for a fire in space. So it's like, I understood, like, that criticism, but the way people were talking about it was just so stupid, because they were like, oh, this is an example of why women shouldn't write Star wars because you have a fire in space. I'm like, yeah, that's a. That's a crazy leap to jump to. You go ahead and make that job. I'm like, it's science fiction.
[00:50:32] Speaker B: And, I mean, when she was. I only thought there was the sound because it was the flashback and she was, like, remembering, like, the actual fire. I didn't think, wait, no, that's true.
[00:50:41] Speaker A: It was the flashback.
That's why. So that's not even a valid critic.
[00:50:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I didn't get it. Like, I was just, like, having a scream and.
[00:50:51] Speaker A: Yeah, and I don't know. It's just, I mean, I'm losing my train of thought here, but, yeah, I don't know. It's just, like, it's just annoying because.
[00:50:59] Speaker B: I'm like, definitely just. It's been a show that sort of revealed, like, the true side of that cuts that side of the fandom that just hates on absolutely everything for, you know, no reason. Like, there's no fault. Like, they can't think critically or anything like that, so.
[00:51:16] Speaker A: But I don't know. It's just. It's just insane to me because, like, again, as someone that's coming from, like, outside of this fandom, I'm like, are there any Star wars fans that, like, actually, like all of Star wars? Because I'm like, this whole toxic fandom thing is not something that started with the last Jedi. It's gotten worse since then. But I'm like, everyone also hated the prequels, and then people also hated return of the Jedi because of the.
[00:51:43] Speaker B: People hated the holiday special, which was released, like, a year after a new Hope.
[00:51:46] Speaker A: So there are people who just saw a new hope in the theater when they were a child, and they say that they're a Star wars fan because they like the first two movies, and that's it. And so I'm like, at this point, if you hate everything else in the franchise, you're not a fan. You're a fan of two movies and not of the franchise. And I I don't know. That's, like, fascinating to me because I don't think there's any fandoms like, that hates itself as much as Star wars.
[00:52:10] Speaker B: No.
[00:52:11] Speaker C: Like, maybe Rick and Morty.
[00:52:15] Speaker A: Maybe Rick and Morty.
[00:52:17] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:52:18] Speaker A: Okay. I don't know anything about Rick and Morty.
[00:52:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:20] Speaker C: I'm like, that's better than that.
[00:52:23] Speaker B: Okay, we'll save them for another time.
[00:52:27] Speaker A: But, yeah, I think. I think that, unfortunately, we are out of time, but for all the listeners, we'd love to continue the conversation. You can check us
[email protected] or find us on Twitter and other social media at mycosmiccircus. Our cosmic circus podcast. Twitter is at my cosmic or. Sorry, ismicpodcasts, thank you so much for tuning into the cosmic circle. My name is uday. You can find me on Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, oldenninja 3000, and Vic and Cam. Where can people find you?
[00:52:58] Speaker B: I am on Twitter, ham and film. Yeah.
[00:53:03] Speaker C: And I'm at erdricksalki on Twitter. And may the force be with you.
[00:53:09] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. Let's say that instead. May the force be with you.
[00:53:14] Speaker B: No, we're not doing. Not doing the Star Trek side.
[00:53:18] Speaker A: Bye, everyone.
[00:53:19] Speaker B: Bye. Bye, guys.
