[00:00:24] Speaker A: Welcome back to welcome for the first time to the Cosmic Cafe
[email protected]. This is where we talk about things we love and how they got us into fandom. Each week we bring on a different person in the entertainment coverage sphere and we talk to them all about that. So this week we're talking to Richard Nebbins from Thedirect.com and the illuminati.com. And the topic of the week is the Disney Renaissance, aka most of the animated movies in the 1990 from Disney and as well as the one from the 80s. We'll get to that one as well. So we talked about all ten of them. We had a great time. We really hope you enjoyed this episode. And yeah, enjoy.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: So. Hi there, Richard. We are so glad to have you at today's Cosmic Cafe discussion. And we are of course talking about the Disney Renaissance. So for those of you who are listening, who don't know what that is, so Disney has very different, like, eras of animation. There's the original one, there's like the 1950s style. There's like what happened after Walt Disney died, which was kind of like a dark era and the movies were less popular and such. And then Disney Renaissance. So this was basically the started in 1989, went to 1999, and the movies it covers, these are from Walt Disney Animation Studio. So no pixar. So not Toy Story is not technically part of this. Neither is Nightmare Before Christmas, which was under touchstone. So the movies that are part of this are the Little Mermaid, The Rescuers, down under, beauty and the Beast, aladdin Lion, King Pocahontas, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, hercules Mulan and Tarzan. So there are ten movies over eleven different years. I think 1992, I think was 1993 was the one year that didn't have any of these because Aladdin was 92 and then Lion King was 94. So every other year in the years had one. And I think we were both born in this era. So those are the ones that came out the year we were born. I think mine came out the week after I was born, so that's interesting. Like the month I was born.
So starting off with The Little Mermaid, this was actually the first fairy tale Disney did since Sleeping Beauty in 1959. So 30 years earlier. And I watched this one this morning actually again, and it was very much evoked kind of the tone of the older Disney movies like Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Cinderella, just like a classic fairy tale with some good songs. Actually this one had more songs, I think, than a lot of the classic ones. Like Snow White had a lot of songs like Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty. Didn't have that many, actually.
But yeah. What do you think of this movie? This is the only one, I think, from before you were born.
[00:02:53] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. No, it came out in 89. I mean, it's a fun movie and kind of like you said, it's kind of like a weird transition era from the old stuff to the newer stuff. It's like really right in the middle, kind of like marks a cutoff point between them. And it was a lot of fun. I watched it a lot when I was a kid. And I mean, obviously I remember the songs and the voiceover and stuff was great. John Candy as Scuttle was absolutely hilarious.
[00:03:18] Speaker B: Gosh, I didn't know that was him.
[00:03:20] Speaker C: I'm like 99% sure it was. Yeah.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: Okay, I'm just going to check that.
[00:03:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
Considering he's in this movie and considering that's, like Uncle Buck and all those old seventy s and eighty s comedies and stuff, that was great. And no, this is just I mean.
[00:03:38] Speaker B: It might not be my john Candy was not Scuttle or wait, was he? Sorry, he was someone else. He was in another movie we're going to be talking about. Just found out.
[00:03:45] Speaker C: Right? Maybe I'mixing it up. Yeah.
[00:03:49] Speaker B: He did not play Scuttle. He played another bird.
[00:03:52] Speaker C: Okay. Right.
[00:03:54] Speaker B: He played another bird. He was not scuttle.
[00:03:57] Speaker C: I got the bird thing right.
[00:03:59] Speaker B: Similar. I don't think he was a steel. He's a different kind of bird. I forgot what it's called. Albatross, probably.
[00:04:05] Speaker C: Yes. We'll be talking about him soon.
[00:04:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I thought this was a pretty good one. This was not one I connected with as much as a lot of other girls my age. I guess because I liked swimming and everything, but I never wanted to be a mermaid and flop around like a fish. I don't know.
[00:04:20] Speaker C: It wasn't your thing.
[00:04:21] Speaker B: But I still like under the Sea and poor unfortunate souls and all the songs. It's really fun. The side characters are really fun. Like I like scuttle. Who did. Voice scuttle. I need to know who voiced Scuttle. I know. It's going to be awfulfina in the new movie. That's going to be fun.
[00:04:32] Speaker C: I'll look it up while you keep talking.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: Buddy Hackett.
[00:04:35] Speaker C: Buddy Hackett, right. I knew it was somebody famous from like the old fifty s and sixty s stuff.
[00:04:41] Speaker B: But yeah, this was a good movie. I think it was very different than the other movies in Era. And even the next one we're going to be talking about, the next one feels like it feels like these two should be in the opposite order almost.
[00:04:53] Speaker C: It kind of does, actually. Also, can I just say about Little Mermaid, too? Ursula has gotten has aged with grace. She's aged like a fine wine in.
[00:05:04] Speaker B: Terms of she's like the perfect Disney villain for today's era.
[00:05:09] Speaker C: Oh, God.
Not like classic Disney villains.
[00:05:15] Speaker B: No, like we have a lot of the elements of Disney renaissance in modern Disney. But I think the difference besides the CG animation is there's not like as many straight up villains. It's like either surprise.
[00:05:25] Speaker C: No, the Renaissance really had like your classic just go to villains more so than these know, bad guy kind of good mean, you and I write about Marvel. We see him all the time.
Tragic backstory, misunderstood.
[00:05:46] Speaker B: I don't know if that's true, because I'm conflating. I think with the StarKid show Twisted, where all the Disney villains show up and they sing about their tragic backstories and why they became villains. And it's just Cruella Deville saying she wants to have a coat of puppies and she's in the evil of all. Yeah, in that one, I think Ursula was supposed to be ruler and then it went to Triton or something and some kind of sexism. I don't know. I don't know if that's canon to Little Mermaid, but that'd be cool if it was. But yeah, I think they're related, right?
[00:06:10] Speaker C: I think so. Yeah. No. And side note, I just watched Cruella for the first time. Other topic to get into because I.
[00:06:18] Speaker B: Really love Emma Stone. I just looked at the runtime. I'm like, how is this that long?
[00:06:23] Speaker C: Yeah, you're not totally wrong, but that's a whole other topic for another day.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: Yes.
Someday, when we're all nostalgic for the live action Disney remakes, we'll do that episode.
[00:06:35] Speaker C: Yeah, 30 years from now, we can.
[00:06:37] Speaker B: Probably do else more than we can probably get away with that, but that's about it. And I'm not even nostalgic for that one. I don't like that one I went in.
[00:06:43] Speaker C: Right.
Anyways, anything else you want to touch on A Little Mermaid? I mean, it's a solid movie.
[00:06:50] Speaker B: It's just like yeah, I think the side characters stand out for me more than the leads, which is, again, it's like Sleeping Beauty in that sense, too, because the fairies are the best characters in Sleeping Beauty and Maleficent and not the main characters.
At least Ariel has a cool song.
[00:07:04] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure.
[00:07:05] Speaker B: Very nice. Pretty song. Yeah, it's just a good, solid movie.
Howard ashman's iconic. Anyone who likes the music of these early Renaissance movies, go watch the documentary Howard on Disney. Plus, it's about Howard Ashman and his life and how he became part of Disney and such a big part of Disney. He was not at Disney for very long because he died of AIDS. Spoilers. But he did a lot while he was he influenced. He's why Disney is what it is today.
[00:07:32] Speaker C: He wasn't around long, but he made a big impact on the early Disney stuff.
[00:07:36] Speaker B: Damn. Yeah.
The early 90s Disney stuff, at least. Or late 80s, early 90s. Before we get to more Howard Ashman, we have the Rescuers down under, which this is the one that feels like it should be part of the original rescuers. This is a sequel to a movie called The Rescuers, which came out 1977.
[00:07:55] Speaker C: Right.
[00:07:55] Speaker B: And it's basically the same plot. They hit the same beats of story. I watched both last night.
I've watched them when I was kid, but I hadn't seen them since, and it's like they hit the story. So there's this kid who needs rescuing. He writes a note or she writes a note because one's a boy, one's a girl. They send them out and then the rescuers, who are mice, find it. They have the Rescue Aid Society with mice from all over the world. They ride on a bird, which is John Candy.
[00:08:17] Speaker C: This is John Candy. Yep.
[00:08:19] Speaker B: Or Hill.
And this one is John Candy. Yeah, and he's really fun. And they go and they fight this villain. And then this villain holding the kid hostage because they want the kid to lead them to some kind of prize.
[00:08:30] Speaker C: Right?
[00:08:30] Speaker B: One, it's a diamond. One, it's like a bird they want to kill because it's a yeah. And then at the end, they save the day and whatever, the mice save the day. And then the mice have this little romance. In the first one, they're getting together, and in the second one they're getting engaged. So that's really nice. I always like the characters. Like Miss Bianca a lot. I had one of those little McDonald's toys of her when they were doing, like, 100 years of magic. Walt Disney's hundredth birthday.
[00:08:53] Speaker C: Nice.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: I had one of her. She was really cute. And it's Bob Newhart and Ava gabor. They're both icons. John Candy is an icon. He's in this really good voice cast. This was Ava Gabor's last role before she died.
[00:09:04] Speaker C: Right.
[00:09:06] Speaker B: And this is the one that came out when you were born or the year.
[00:09:08] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it came out like, maybe two weeks or something before I was actually end of, so okay, so.
[00:09:17] Speaker B: This one came out in November because mine came out a different time then. I keep forgetting. But yeah, most of these anime come out, like, late November or like, the summer.
[00:09:26] Speaker C: Exactly. They have those two time frames, usually.
[00:09:29] Speaker B: Yeah. This is one of the late November ones.
[00:09:33] Speaker C: Can I just say about this one? This, I think, to me, is one of the most underrated Disney movies.
I don't know about you. I like this one, actually way better than the original. I mean, the original is good, but this one is just a lot more fun. I like the story, the action more. I mean, all the bird stuff is super cool.
[00:09:52] Speaker B: Photography is so good.
[00:09:55] Speaker C: Obviously, the animation's improved.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: But, yeah, the original is like I watched it. I think the original might be one of my least favorite Disney movies. I don't hate it or anything.
[00:10:05] Speaker C: It was kind of bad.
[00:10:07] Speaker B: But, yeah, kind of this depressing feel like all the songs feel really sad in the background. And it's like the Fox and Hound, except the Fox and Hound is actually compelling and good.
[00:10:18] Speaker C: You get emotions in that.
[00:10:19] Speaker B: One. Girl's cute. The two wants her teddy bear. That mean. That's cute. But this one was a lot more fun. It had a more compelling story with the mama bird and her eggs.
[00:10:26] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:10:27] Speaker B: Villain was cool. Like the villain's lizard thing. Sidekick was like what was that?
[00:10:31] Speaker C: Super creepy.
[00:10:33] Speaker B: That was kind of cool.
[00:10:33] Speaker C: The Komodo dragon, I think it was.
[00:10:35] Speaker B: Yeah, like Joanne or something.
[00:10:39] Speaker C: Joanna. Joanna. You were close.
[00:10:40] Speaker B: They named it Joanna. That's like such a random name for a Komodo dragon.
I had seen, I think, exactly once when I was like five or six. And so I watched it for the first time in 20 years last night. And it was pretty good. It was a pretty good movie. Good animation.
[00:10:54] Speaker C: Yeah. I can't remember the actual villain's name of that movie, but I do remember that he was super creepy the entire time. Yeah, he's legit, kind of scary.
[00:11:06] Speaker B: He's like the hunter and bambi. If you saw his face, maybe the hunter doesn't know. Maybe with the face to the hunter and bambi. It's like Tarzan. More like Clayton, who will get yeah.
[00:11:19] Speaker C: But no, this is a super underrated movie. I know we're not going to be touching on this one in this specific one, but kind of like how Emperor's New Groove is.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Later on in, people appreciate that one.
Yeah, this one does not this one gets forgotten as part of the Renaissance because it really does feel like more like the other era, which I mean, they have some good ones in other era, too, like Oliver and Company and such.
[00:11:43] Speaker C: Oliver company is great. Black cauldron was pretty good.
[00:11:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I like Black Cauldron. I watched that for the first time, I think, New Year's Day last year. And I'm like, everyone hated this one. Why? It's pretty good.
[00:11:51] Speaker C: I know I haven't seen it in a while, but it was another one super creepy.
[00:11:55] Speaker B: Because the for Disney, we got to do that because like Aristocats I stand it's cat jazz.
This definitely feels more like that era. And so I understand when people forget as part of the Renaissance, but it is technically part of it, and it's an improvement over the original. And I feel like that's fitting for the Renaissance because it was an improvement over the other era of and I.
[00:12:14] Speaker C: Think you're totally right. I think if Rescuers and Little Mermaid were switched, I think that would actually.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: Make more sense in terms of I don't think it would be counting as part of the Disney Renaissance if it was switched. I honestly don't think so. I think it just it might not have been timing.
[00:12:27] Speaker C: Still a great movie, though.
[00:12:28] Speaker B: Yeah, it's good. It deserves like there's good movies in every era of Disney. I think it's just there's a certain feel of the Renaissance movies which we will get to. And basically all of these are musicals in some way or form. Except for this one, I think.
[00:12:41] Speaker C: Except Rescuers. Yeah, exactly. Rescuers are the only one that is.
[00:12:46] Speaker B: But like, the rest of them are.
[00:12:48] Speaker C: Well, we'll get to Tarzan later. That was just kind of the Phil Collins showcase.
[00:12:52] Speaker B: Yeah, that and brother Bear, which I also love. But yeah. Again, we have to we'll talk about that later because we're going to have some every year of Disney because I.
[00:13:00] Speaker C: Think we could really touch on it.
[00:13:02] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. By sometime last year, I've seen all the Walt Disney animated features.
[00:13:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:13:07] Speaker B: Okay. This is a good one. Beauty and the Beast anniversary.
[00:13:13] Speaker C: This is my wife's, one of her favorite Disney movies ever.
And that's the thing, too, about Beauty of the Beast is I love almost every version of it that they've done. But this one is just kind of super special.
It's kind of got everything.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Beauty and the Beast. So, yeah, it's a favorite for a lot of people. I feel like a lot of people are like I mean, there's like, the four movies. People tend to be team for the main Renaissance movie. But a lot of people are like Team Little Mermaid. Or Team Beauty and the Beast. And I was Team Beauty and the Beast. Yeah. Again, a lot of people say I'm like Belle. And I feel like I'm like Belle in a lot of ways. When I was younger, I think she was the princess I was most like. And I think that's the only reason she might not be now is by virtue, is like, Rapunzel didn't show up till later, right?
[00:13:57] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure.
[00:13:58] Speaker B: Yeah. I feel like I'm kind of, like, have kind of crazier energy than being outcast with the books and everything. That was definitely me. I love the idea of the enchanted castle. The undersea thing was not my jam, I guess, as much. But this kind of castle where it's like you can't go in the west wing. It's a huge thing. You can run around and explore. That was my all the talking furniture.
[00:14:19] Speaker C: And appliances, I guess, upholstery.
[00:14:21] Speaker B: Yeah, this is the old era. Yeah. But it's great. Again, howard ashman. A lot of the music in this one was kind of like goes with Howard Ashman's life. Almost being gay, having AIDS at the time and everything. So being seen as a monster. So that's a very personal thing for him, I think, with this one. And I seen recording BR Guest with the cast. And it was yeah, BR Guest was like this is actually, I think, the first time I saw this movie in full because I had the Disney sing alongs and stuff. And I knew the story because I had, like a book of it, like a picture book for the Disney. Beauty and the Beast. Little golden book was in IMAX when I was five for the 10th anniversary when they really released it.
[00:15:04] Speaker C: Nice. That's a good one.
[00:15:07] Speaker B: 2001, they released and I saw it in IMAX. It was my first IMAX movie. And I went all the way all the way to Toronto to see it. And I got to see it was, like, amazing. I was kind of closer to the front, and so I looked up and it was like and they had the Human Again song in it, which was in the musical, but not in the.
[00:15:23] Speaker C: Which I know that song wasn't in the original movie, but that's actually a pretty good song. I don't mind that they added yeah.
[00:15:31] Speaker B: They shouldn't have gotten rid of but, like, it wasn't really and they deserve more time to shine. I like those characters.
[00:15:39] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. No, this movie was just really good. I liked the story. I mean, the cast was great. Jerry Orbach was that I don't think anybody saw that. Would have seen that coming back in the day.
But no, this one, it was just a lot of fun.
Sorry.
[00:15:55] Speaker B: Angela Lansbury is in mean.
[00:15:59] Speaker C: I mean, just classic.
[00:16:03] Speaker B: Yeah. There's a reason this one was the first animated movie nominated for best picture.
[00:16:08] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And it deserved it. Looking back on Mean, disney did a hell of a job on it's.
[00:16:15] Speaker B: Like, wow. Like, you see the ballroom scene where they're dancing is like, such great filming and just so beautiful.
[00:16:20] Speaker C: Yeah. The animation really took a step up this time around.
[00:16:25] Speaker B: Animation. Even the villain song. I feel like Gaston is an underrated villain song because absolutely.
[00:16:31] Speaker C: That one gets stuck in my head all the time with him and LeFou and everything.
[00:16:35] Speaker B: Yes.
It's just so good. I love this one. This is the one I related to most kid. This is the one I would consider my favorite as a kid. There might be one or two I like more now. I'm not sure. One of them being the next one, which is a lot.
[00:16:47] Speaker C: Oh, God.
[00:16:48] Speaker B: That was my other favorite as a kid, renaissance movies.
[00:16:53] Speaker C: I have actually a great personal story with this one. Pretty much after Aladdin my entire childhood growing up, me and my dad would greet each other every morning for probably a good 1015 years. With 10,000 years, we'll give you such a crick in the neck.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Robin Williams's performance as a genius. What? I think the main thing everyone remembers about this movie that in a whole new world again, I think that one was nominated for best song as well.
Like, all these movies were pretty much nominated for best song at the Oscars except for Rescuers Down Under, I'm pretty sure.
[00:17:29] Speaker C: Pretty much also it got robbed, I think, of either best picture or best screenplay just because Robin Williams improvised so much.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
He would just go on the booth and do it. And then I know there's a whole controversy of he didn't want to be promoted as too much of being in this picture. And then, of course, they put him all over the ads and it was like he was not happy. Then he didn't come back. First directive video sequel. And then he came back to the second and then they replaced him with the second one with Dan Castellanetta. Homer Simpson.
If you watch Aladdin Return of Jafar on Disney Plus, you can kind of hear Homer Simpson.
[00:18:04] Speaker C: Yeah, it's really funny, too. I actually just watched both sequels, maybe like, less than a week ago. And, I mean, they're both good. I mean, they're not obviously the first one, but it's really funny hearing the differences between Genie from Return of Jafar and King of Thieves.
[00:18:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I have to watch King of Thieves again. I watched the first one in Return to Farlaw as a kid. I think I watched King of Thieves once. So, again, that's when I watch on Disney Plus, because I remember that one's, like, kind of all yeah, this is like a really good like, I feel like this is like when they so Little Mermaid started, like, the music and everything. Or brought it back, I should say. This one started like the had the sidekicks, but like, not the wise cracking side.
[00:18:49] Speaker C: Yago.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: Really bright. Yago. And the genie. That's who they are. That's what it was.
[00:18:54] Speaker C: Exactly.
Oh, my God.
[00:18:57] Speaker B: A lot of them were in the later Renaissance, and even, like, Emperor's New Groove were trying to copy this, I think.
[00:19:05] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. But no. Yago.
[00:19:07] Speaker B: And the genie colors are so beautiful in purples.
[00:19:13] Speaker C: It's so yeah, like, especially the night scenes. Like whole new world.
Even the darker stuff at the end with Jafargo and all evil and being the genie and everything.
[00:19:23] Speaker B: Super creepy. So here's a fun fact. Some people are going to be mad because, yes, this is a white guy, and this probably shouldn't have happened, but this is still cool. Kind of. So Aladdin on Broadway was a thing, or it is a thing still. And I saw the editown trio in Toronto of Musical before it went to Broadway. So this was in 2014. I saw early 2014. And so the guy playing Jafar was the same guy who voiced him in the movie.
[00:19:47] Speaker C: Nice. Very cool.
[00:19:49] Speaker B: He went to Broadway as well. I think the whole cast went to Broadway, so I saw the original Broadway cast before they did.
Yeah, and he was great. So it was neat just to hear him his voice again, but right in front of me. That was cool.
[00:20:04] Speaker C: You know, the one thing I wish this movie had did? All those stories about Robin Williams actually playing the guy in the beginning and of him revealing himself at the end.
That could have been the MCU before the MCU.
[00:20:19] Speaker B: Okay. So again, I have to mention the stark and musical Twisted. It's based on aladdin. It's like Wicked, but Aladdin, they did that, except for instead they weirdly had Aladdin do it at the but, like, I wanted it to be the genie. I remember because genie was different than that. But I like the idea of someone from the story being the narrator in these things and the genie being that in this. That should have been Canada. I mean, it's kind of obvious. It's kind of implicit.
[00:20:43] Speaker C: You can kind of tell. Exactly. They should have just showed it.
[00:20:47] Speaker B: But yeah, they should have just made a little hint.
[00:20:50] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. No, but of all the Disney Renaissance movies that are out there, I probably quote this one more than almost any of them because all the Robin Williams.
[00:21:01] Speaker B: Stuff absolutely more rivals it.
[00:21:05] Speaker C: But we'll get to yeah, for sure.
But no, this is arguably one of my favorite Disney movies.
And also, I got to say, too, the live action one didn't disappoint me the way I thought it was going to. Just as a side note. I mean, we can get into that another day.
[00:21:24] Speaker B: But I don't know. I didn't think it was going to be that great, and I didn't think it was that great or anything, but I guess it didn't disappoint me that much. I don't know.
[00:21:31] Speaker C: It was better than I was expecting.
[00:21:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel like my expectations for those live action ones are like, rock bottom. Well, a few of them have been pretty good. My favorite is the Jungle Book. Still.
[00:21:41] Speaker C: Yeah, me too.
[00:21:42] Speaker B: Me too.
[00:21:45] Speaker C: Yeah. They are so hit and miss with the live action remake.
[00:21:49] Speaker B: And now they're doing like, sequels to the live action ones. Like they did with the anime. Like they're doing Gaston Lafou spinoff. Show another Lion King movie that's not The Lion King Two, but it's like a different Lion King Two. And now they have, like, The Lion Guard show, like a different kid for Simba, like what happened to his other kid. We just not canonize her anymore.
[00:22:08] Speaker C: They're just kind of going off the rails a little bit.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: Aladdin series, too. There's a bunch of series on TV like Aladdin had. Did you watch that at all, that show?
[00:22:15] Speaker C: I think I did. Yeah. On like Disney Channel.
[00:22:18] Speaker B: Yeah, it was Disney Channel show like that. Had a series, I think had a.
[00:22:22] Speaker C: Series, which I never pumba was amazing. That was a great show.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: A lot of series, like Emperor's New Groove even, had a series.
[00:22:29] Speaker C: So I watched Hercules. Had one that was pretty good. We'll get to that later.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: One that was not a series. At the end, they were going to make a series and then they.
[00:22:41] Speaker C: I mean, they got to capitalize on everything for the kids.
[00:22:44] Speaker B: Yeah, they but I mean, like, in some ways it's good because now we have Marvel Disney Plus shows. That's where that came from. We don't know how.
[00:22:52] Speaker C: Right.
Totally.
[00:22:55] Speaker B: But no, we can forgive them sometimes.
[00:22:59] Speaker C: Yeah, they do enough good work that you can forgive a lot of it.
[00:23:03] Speaker B: Sometimes it leads to good things. That's all I'm saying.
[00:23:06] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:23:08] Speaker B: Aladdin, great movie. I don't know the songs. This one, they all really stop. I think one jump ahead is really underrated.
[00:23:15] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, for sure.
[00:23:16] Speaker B: We were talking about songs that should be in these movies that got cut. Like proud of your boy.
[00:23:21] Speaker C: That would have been pretty good.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: But that's another howard Ashman one. Howard Ashman, I think, did most or some of the songs for this, but not all them because he died when they were doing production. But yeah, that was a good like yeah, that was such a good song. And he wrote that song and it's just another great it felt like another personal piece from him. Like much of the Beauty and the Beast stuff did, for sure. Yeah, this was his last movie, I think he worked on before he died.
[00:23:45] Speaker C: Yeah, Beauty and the Beast, which really yeah, no, absolutely. But no, this one's still regarded as one of the best Disney movies ever made. And for good.
[00:24:00] Speaker B: Have. We did. Little Mermaid. Yes, we did. Rescue center. But Little Mermaid, bees and Beast aladdin. And this next one are like kind of the four pillars of the Disney renaissance, I would say. Everyone remembers the most, the Lion King.
It's so good. It's Hamlet, but it's characters and Disney characters, but for those people getting mad that people ripped off Hamlet, like, look at all these other things they ripped off.
[00:24:27] Speaker C: There are at least twelve Disney movies.
[00:24:29] Speaker B: Kind of get retold a lot in different ways. And so that's one of them.
[00:24:32] Speaker C: Disney has done this at least like twelve times.
[00:24:36] Speaker B: Yeah, this is nothing new, but yeah, that's Disney roles and this is a really good one. Music by Elton John, which seems like a random it actually really works.
[00:24:46] Speaker C: It surprisingly works, considering. I mean, Elton John's amazing, obviously, but it's kind of shocking knowing that Elton John wrote the music to Lion King.
[00:24:55] Speaker B: To a like I mean, I know we've heard him sing Circles. Like, at first I thought that was like a cover. No, he wrote exactly, he wrote it. He wrote all these songs. I think he did all of them. I don't know my favorite, be Prepared.
I like all these songs.
[00:25:14] Speaker C: For me too. The way I judge the musicals is how good the worst song is compared to the rest of them, because all of them have good songs, but The Lion King is just straight up bangers all the time. There isn't one bad song in that movie at all.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: No, there isn't.
[00:25:33] Speaker C: Yeah. And the score is amazing. The actual orchestral musicals work and that's good.
[00:25:39] Speaker B: If I can remember a score, it's a good score, unless it's really bad, but usually if I can remember a.
[00:25:43] Speaker C: Score, it's good that's generally I went to music school, so I really pay attention to that kind of stuff. And the score from yeah, actually it's funny. I went to the same music school as Alan Sylvester and the composer of Captain Marvel, which is pretty cool.
[00:26:03] Speaker B: Yeah, Alan Sylvester has done a lot like he did Back to the Lot. He did the.
[00:26:09] Speaker C: Everything. He's done everything that John Williams hasn't done.
[00:26:12] Speaker B: Pretty much. Yeah. It's him and John Williams on everything. Like, I have my scores playlist on, not reddit it's. Spotify. And it's pretty much like those two for a lot of chunk of it.
[00:26:24] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:24] Speaker B: And now we're getting some new composers. I'm glad we're getting more in these movies, especially with basically, the superhero movies are big for the scores because there's, like, the big action blockbusters right now that get the big scores right, for sure. So I'm glad we're getting more, but yeah.
Well, it's interesting because if Howard Ashman had lived, he'd probably be doing, like, Disney movies for the next whatever.
[00:26:43] Speaker C: Oh, he'd probably still be doing them.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sad we don't get that. But we did get Elton John for this, which is awesome.
I can't believe we got then it's not the most random, but we'll get to that. But it's really about can I just.
[00:26:59] Speaker C: Say, too, about this movie? This has one of the most impressive voice casts of any I mean, I'm looking at this cast right now. Jeremy Irons. James Earl Jones. Nathan Lane. Matthew Broderick. Mr. Bean was Zazu.
[00:27:13] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, he was. That's right. I forgot what his real name is. Oh, my God.
[00:27:17] Speaker C: Rowan Atkinson.
[00:27:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I see, I knew it when I heard it. I'd be like, I'm so one with the cut song in this movie. I don't even really need it. He had a little song called Morning Report. It was cute.
[00:27:31] Speaker C: It was pretty fun.
[00:27:32] Speaker B: Yeah, it was a cute little thing. And then I think there's another one cut from this movie that went into it was in the musical, and it was in the sequel called He Lives in you. That was a really nice song.
[00:27:40] Speaker C: Yeah, it's funny. I've actually seen the Broadway musical a couple of times live. Amazing, by the way. But yeah, he Lives In You, I think, is like, right after where Mufasa appears in the sky and everything.
[00:27:53] Speaker B: Yeah, that makes sense. And the sequel is, like, right at the beginning.
[00:27:57] Speaker C: It was the first song in the movie. Yeah. Which that was one of the better straight to video sequels that they did.
[00:28:03] Speaker B: My favorite straight to video sequel is Lion King One and a Half.
[00:28:07] Speaker C: Yes, completely agreed.
[00:28:08] Speaker B: I love that one on DVD. Watched it all the time. Loved it so much.
That's like a parody of a parody of Hamlet.
[00:28:18] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.
[00:28:20] Speaker B: Side characters doing the thing.
[00:28:21] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:28:23] Speaker B: I wish it was on Disney Plus. I would actually check that out.
[00:28:26] Speaker C: Yeah, we moved to the Theta district. Get a load of these.
[00:28:31] Speaker B: My it was like such a like, if you haven't seen Lion King One and a Half, and even if you're right at the Disney sequels, please watch Lion King One and a Half.
[00:28:39] Speaker C: Highly recommended.
Yeah, exactly. No, but Lion King I don't know what your favorite Disney movie is. This is my favorite Disney movie of all.
It's even though there's great ones. It's not even close.
[00:28:54] Speaker B: My favorite Disney movie, I think, because it's not one of the Renaissance. It's mary Poppins and I'm going to animate it. It's just like that's what it is, I'm sure.
[00:29:01] Speaker C: No, that's a good one.
[00:29:02] Speaker B: So I can reveal it now. I'll reveal my favorite Renaissance one later in this podcast. I'm not sure when king is like Lion King's. A lot of people's favorite, and I can see why. It's, like, very epic. It's a really good story. It's just like so many good moments. This is the will to be seen. We didn't even talk about that.
[00:29:21] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
You know what's funny? I was just thinking how you saw Beauty and the Beast in IMAX. They did a theatrical rerelease of Lion King in, like, 2009, 2010, when I was in college.
[00:29:33] Speaker B: I missed that. And I wanted to see it in Lima. I mean, I've seen them.
[00:29:37] Speaker C: And I remember I went to see it in theaters because actually, the other funny story, apparently, I was so young when I first saw The Lion King, I was, like three that I kept asking my mom, apparently, if I could go to the bathroom because I was so scared.
[00:29:55] Speaker B: In the theater. Because you were like three. Because you were alive.
[00:29:58] Speaker C: Because I was a toddler. And that's a scary movie for a three year old.
[00:30:03] Speaker B: They took a toddler to life. Well, I mean, I was three when I saw my first movie in theaters and I was scared. It was almost in Greg's land.
[00:30:09] Speaker C: Right, exactly.
No, my mom always jokes with me about how she missed, like, half that movie taking me to the bathroom, but then she would end up seeing it about 100 more times over the next 20 years.
So it kind of worked out. But no. When I saw the rerelease, I bald like a baby.
When Mufasa died, I was 1920 years old, crying my eyes out in theater. And I knew it was coming. I knew the entire story, word for word, still hit me like a ton of bricks.
[00:30:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:44] Speaker C: Messed up scene.
[00:30:45] Speaker B: This is a really powerful movie in a lot of ways, I think, also, because the big epic scale and it's like about the circle. It makes you really think about life and stuff, too.
[00:30:54] Speaker C: Exactly. It's those movies that make you think about the real world.
[00:30:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
Really gets you to really beauty and the Beast was kind of like that, too, but it was more implicit. Like, you could easily kind of miss it. But this one is like no, you're going to think about in your face.
[00:31:08] Speaker C: This is happening. You're getting this.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: Speaking of in your face.
[00:31:14] Speaker C: Oh, boy.
[00:31:15] Speaker B: That one is very in your face with its message as well.
[00:31:17] Speaker C: Oh, boy.
[00:31:17] Speaker B: Yeah, this is the one. Okay. So some people will say when you talk about Renaissance, people say this is the start of the decline. What do you think about that?
[00:31:26] Speaker C: I don't think there was a decline personally, but I'd say maybe it's not one of the top tier like, this is amazing movies, but I still really enjoy it. It's still a really good movie.
[00:31:40] Speaker B: One of the ones, like I guess you can call it the problematic faith because it's like, a lot it's not really accurate.
They take a lot of liberties at the day, but they didn't always portray everything right. And we all know that. But anyway, onto that being said, yes, we know this is not what this podcast is about. I'm sorry, everybody, if you were hoping for a deep dive on that when we got we're not doing that today.
Who did the music for this one? I don't know who did the music.
[00:32:10] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm looking up right now. But whoever did it did a really good job. This is another one, too, where, like.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: Around the oh, yeah. This one has possibly one of the best cut like the most important best cut song. If I never knew you.
[00:32:25] Speaker C: Yeah, that was a good one.
[00:32:26] Speaker B: John Smith. Before they're going to be separated. They're, like crying and singing and it's like, really sad.
[00:32:31] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure.
[00:32:33] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Okay. Alan Manken.
[00:32:35] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:32:36] Speaker B: He did the music along for, I think, part of Alan Too and Stephen Schwartz, who did, like, Pippin and Wicked and all these Broadway schwartz.
[00:32:42] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:32:43] Speaker B: So, yeah, it's Stephen Schwartz. Okay. So we're still talking iconic here. Okay.
[00:32:46] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, for sure.
[00:32:48] Speaker B: So. Yeah. Colors of the Wind, I think won for best song. Yeah, it won.
[00:32:53] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:32:53] Speaker B: I don't know that year. Did it win?
[00:32:56] Speaker C: Yeah, I know. It was nominated, actually. Yeah. Received two Academy Awards for Best Musical or Comedy Score and Best Original Song for Colors of the Wind.
[00:33:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it cool. Yeah, that and I can't decide whether that or Just Around the Riverbend is my favorite. I feel like Just Around the Riverbend is very relatable to me. So I guess that's why I connect with it. I always have.
[00:33:15] Speaker C: They're both good ones.
[00:33:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
And then you have just, like the score for this one is very good as well, I think.
[00:33:22] Speaker C: Yeah, I think this is kind of like Lion King, where everything is really good. I just don't think it quite hits the highs of Lion King.
[00:33:31] Speaker B: But yeah, the animation is great. Like Colors the Wind animated sequence is great. Whenever you're with Grandmother Willow, I think it's great. Yeah, that was underrated one mind. I feel like that's a funny song.
[00:33:42] Speaker C: That was a great part where he.
[00:33:45] Speaker B: Walks down in the glitter.
[00:33:47] Speaker C: Oh, my God.
[00:33:47] Speaker B: That was good.
[00:33:49] Speaker C: Classic. And then again, the voice cast for this, absolutely iconic. The fact that our Batman played Thomas in this movie will never cease to weird merchandise. Bale was Nell Gibson was was John Smith. That's always weird to Linda. Linda Hunt. David odin Spears. Oh, my God.
[00:34:18] Speaker B: Yeah, this is good.
[00:34:19] Speaker C: This is a good like, I don't know, if you look at those castings where two people play two really different people the fact that Thomas from Pocahontas and Batman are played by the same person is so weird to me.
[00:34:35] Speaker B: Yeah, he was a lot younger for this, so I kind of get it.
[00:34:38] Speaker C: Well, yeah, this was a good ten years before he played Batman.
[00:34:45] Speaker B: Oh, chris Buck was in this? Oh, no, he wrote the story. I'm sorry. Yeah, he's a writer. Sorry.
[00:34:50] Speaker C: Yeah, cut that.
[00:34:52] Speaker B: I don't know.
Okay, so yeah, this is just a really solid this is like a very emotional one, I find. Like another really?
All the movies get very emotional. This one feels like very like it's like Romeo and Juliet kind of, kind of story. I mean, this is not as much of a takeoff of that as Hamlet was.
[00:35:10] Speaker C: It's not as much of a blatant ripoff as Hamlet.
[00:35:13] Speaker B: Too many stories that do this kind of Romeo Juliet thing.
[00:35:16] Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah. And then Avatar totally stole from Pocahontas.
[00:35:20] Speaker B: Later, but we can get into that other day.
Yeah, because this one's like although Avatar was more environmental, wasn't it? I haven't actually seen Avatar. I'm sorry.
Okay, I need to see Avatar. I need to see Avatar before the sequel.
[00:35:33] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. The sequel that's actually now being made twelve years later.
[00:35:38] Speaker B: It's supposed to come out end of this year. At the time we're playing this, we will see again. This was when I was in late grade eight, and I thought I was like, whatever. I was just like, sad and not good at anything, so I'm like, not happy with anything. So I'm like, I don't care. Care about like why do I need to sit there for 3 hours? Oh, yeah, patience for that then. But anyway, yeah, apparently people kind of don't like it anymore, so I was ahead of the curve.
I don't know.
[00:36:03] Speaker C: But yeah, anyway, back to the original.
[00:36:08] Speaker B: This was.
[00:36:11] Speaker C: In this too. And what's impressive about him, he played both Radcliffe and Wiggins, which is crazy impressive. That dude had rage and he was Jumba in Lilo and Stitch, which is another movie that is amazing. From post.
[00:36:28] Speaker B: He no, wasn't he also?
[00:36:31] Speaker C: Yes, yes, he was. He was totally cogsworth.
[00:36:33] Speaker B: And Beauty and the Beast. Yeah, I noticed that name. I'm like, what is that? I know it's not David Allen Greer. I'm like, oh, it's cogsworth.
[00:36:39] Speaker C: Yeah, I think he was in another Disney movie, I think.
[00:36:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm sure he's been in a Disney movie.
[00:36:45] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure.
[00:36:47] Speaker B: Yeah. So this is a good movie. I feel like it was one of my favorites, plus, so now I think I haven't watched it in a while. I think the last time I saw it was at Disney World and I was like, getting ready to go out and they had it on the TV.
[00:36:58] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure.
[00:37:00] Speaker B: I haven't been to Disney World since 2016, so I think it was 2016 when I last saw it, so I should watch that again. But I didn't have time to watch all these before we did this because I have back in school now.
[00:37:09] Speaker C: Yeah, I hear that.
[00:37:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Anyway, I'm happy to be back in school. I need something to get my mind going.
[00:37:17] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure.
[00:37:19] Speaker B: Okay, so the next one is the Hunchback Notre Dame. And this is the one where it came out, I think, like a week after I was born. Yeah, I was born 1996 in June. And this isn't one that came out in the summer? Yeah, it came out on June. Okay. So it came out, like, June 21 in the US. June 19. So like two weeks maybe after I was born ish like week and a half.
[00:37:42] Speaker C: Yeah, right around then.
[00:37:44] Speaker B: Yeah. So I was alive for this one. I did not see it in theaters, obviously. Right. But yeah, I didn't see this one until I was a little older. But I remember seeing the songs, like, listening to songs on the tapes because I had all the Disney tapes and I have the VHS of A Guy Like You and Topsy Turby Hellfire was not on one of those. When I found out that was the thing, I was like, oh, my gosh.
[00:38:04] Speaker C: But that's one of my favorite Disney villain songs.
[00:38:07] Speaker B: Honestly, I can see why they didn't put it on the VHS tapes for kids, though.
[00:38:11] Speaker C: Well, yeah, because it absolutely traumatizes you.
[00:38:13] Speaker B: I don't think they had it on, like, the yeah, did they have it on those tapes? Sorry. Just keep going. Let's hear what you think about Hunchback because there's a lot to talk about in this one. This is like a big dive into.
[00:38:23] Speaker C: Arguably the darkest Disney movie ever.
Yeah, arguably.
[00:38:31] Speaker B: I think ones like Brother Bear, honestly kind of rival the main character killed someone and then he's hanging out with her son the whole time.
[00:38:40] Speaker C: Yeah, that one.
But no, arguably, definitely the darkest one of the mean. Just a great movie. When you look back at it, it's really interesting watching it when you're little, like when it first came out, like how it did for me and you and watching it when you're older and you realize really how dark it actually is. There are some creepy stuff in it.
[00:39:05] Speaker B: What a lot of people, I don't think, don't notice is like, kids don't always notice the dark parts of things. I think it's where it's like, kids like it and it's like, oh, it's fun. It's kind of creepy. And then adults are like, oh, my gosh, this is horrible.
[00:39:16] Speaker C: This is absolutely traumatizing.
[00:39:18] Speaker B: Not for kids.
[00:39:20] Speaker C: This is not a kids movie.
Yeah, no, this movie is traumatizing to watch as an adult.
[00:39:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
Okay. So I don't know. I know you're Jewish and so this is a little different because I don't really have a religious background. But it's always fascinated me, this kind of stuff, religion stuff, before they went with it in this one. And how the church was kind of corrupting frolo and stuff. I find that very fascinating. I'm impressed as much as they did.
[00:39:48] Speaker C: But yeah, no, absolutely.
Definitely. Big time religious themes. Obviously. Some child abuse stuff in there.
[00:39:56] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Like he almost dropped the baby in.
[00:39:58] Speaker C: The his first instinct when he gets a baby is, all right, you're out.
[00:40:04] Speaker B: Yeah, we don't need you. And then he left him in a tower. And it's like I think of this versus Rapunzel. And it's like rapunzel's in her such nice tower. She gets to paint and everything. And like we I'm spinning around, but I'm still doing fun stuff. And it's like he's ringing the bells on him. He only has gargoyles to talk to. Speaking of them, what do you think about them?
[00:40:23] Speaker C: Amazing. Like three of my favorite supporting characters in any Disney movie ever, jason Alexander killed it as Hugo. I mean, he was just absolutely hilarious the entire time.
Yes. Guy like you is great.
They were great. They're definitely some of my top notch Disney supporting characters.
[00:40:45] Speaker B: A lot of people don't like them because they ruin the adult tone of the movie or whatever.
[00:40:52] Speaker C: It's a Disney movie.
[00:40:54] Speaker B: It's like you have to have something for the kids because I think without them, people might have noticed it was darker and there would have been more backlash.
[00:41:02] Speaker C: It's funny. Yeah, I agree. I think it would have been much worse if they weren't there. Especially because this movie's general age range is probably six to twelve year olds.
[00:41:13] Speaker B: Yeah, probably. I don't know. I don't know. Do kids these days know this movie? I know kids these days, like Ariel and everything. Do they watch The Hunchback of Notre Dame?
[00:41:21] Speaker C: I don't that's that's a good question. I think this could be in danger of being one of the forgotten ones. Which I think is a real shame because this is a really good movie. This has some epic music in it, too.
[00:41:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I think hellfire, when people bring that one up, I think that's the reason this movie is going to live. Because everyone's like, what's this darkest moment? So like, it's going to live.
[00:41:45] Speaker C: That's always in the conversation for darkest Disney moment.
[00:41:48] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a very good Disney song. I think my favorite song in the movie is Out There.
[00:41:53] Speaker C: I just really like I really like that one too.
[00:41:56] Speaker B: Beautiful sequence.
[00:41:58] Speaker C: Topsy Turvy is great, too.
[00:41:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Topsy turvy. God help. The outcast is cool.
[00:42:03] Speaker C: Yeah.
Another one where all the songs are at least really good and there are.
[00:42:08] Speaker B: A couple of standouts I'm googling who did the music.
[00:42:12] Speaker C: Yeah. But no, this is just a really solid outing.
[00:42:18] Speaker B: Schwartz again.
[00:42:20] Speaker C: Again. You know what? I'm just going to bet they did a lot more of the Disney movies going forward because they kind of just owned the Wonder.
[00:42:29] Speaker B: If they did, I don't think I'd be surprised. I think Alan Macon maybe. Did Hercules.
[00:42:33] Speaker C: But like, I feel like you might be right. Yeah.
[00:42:36] Speaker B: Speaking of which, Hercules, that's the next so for the first half, the Renaissance, or like the first few, a lot of them were based on fairy tales or whatever the Arabian, I guess, equivalent of fairy tale was for Aladdin, it.
[00:42:49] Speaker C: Was one of the Arabian Nights kind of thing.
[00:42:51] Speaker B: Literature, like legends, like pocahontas mulan, Hercules. And then you got like, Hunchback, which is like, again, literature, like I said.
[00:43:00] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:43:01] Speaker B: So it's kind of different source material. So, yeah, now we're doing them trying to recreate Aladdin, which, like a lot of people have said, but it isn't something. Yep. Alan Manken did music for Hercules. Which songs? So, yeah, zero to Hero, and I feel like the big one, but there's also, like, Go the Distance, which I really like.
I won't say yes, that's a good one usually gets.
[00:43:27] Speaker C: If there's any movie that I'd actually be in favor of, a live action remake of this would be one of them. As long as they can get the singing voices right.
[00:43:35] Speaker B: I was hearing this was going to happen and the Russo brothers were going to produce it. I don't know if it's still happening, because I kind of would be in favor of that.
[00:43:42] Speaker C: I think I would totally be. I mean, the Russo brothers haven't really done a bad movie yet.
[00:43:48] Speaker B: I heard Cherry was kind of bad, but I didn't see that one yet.
[00:43:51] Speaker C: Yeah, but no, I would totally be down for them.
[00:43:54] Speaker B: Blockbusters, I think they're good. I think they're good with that.
[00:43:56] Speaker C: Absolutely. And Hercules would be a good option for them, but this one was just absolutely incredible. This is probably one of my top three or four of the 90s. This is one I quote all the time. I mean, funny, entertaining. It's got some epic stuff in it. It's great.
[00:44:14] Speaker B: I think for me, this is one of my least favorites of the Renaissance. I still like it. I don't like people pointed. The story is kind of all over the like it just keeps going back and forth. I like all the characters. Hercules himself is kind of anne, but I like Magara or Megara. I keep forgetting my friends call me Lisa.
[00:44:32] Speaker C: They would if they had any friends.
[00:44:33] Speaker B: Again, sorry.
We also have a great villain.
[00:44:40] Speaker C: Who.
[00:44:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Danny DeVito. Yes.
That was iconic. I like his song. His song's really fun.
[00:44:46] Speaker C: Call me Phil.
[00:44:48] Speaker B: I wish Hades had a villain song. That's what I think of maybe that's what was missing from this for me.
[00:44:52] Speaker C: You know what? Yeah. But you know what's funny, too? Hades is just one of my absolute favorite villains because he just loses it, like, just on a.
[00:45:05] Speaker B: That'S although my head doesn't explode, but sometimes I can get like that.
[00:45:11] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:45:13] Speaker B: Who. I feel like I would always confuse those with the gargoyles in Hunchback for some reason. I don't know why I would confuse things in these two.
Yeah, this was a pretty good movie, though.
I liked Megara a lot because she was very different from the other ladies in these movies, where it's very different. Yeah, it's kind of refreshing. To who was different is still very sweet and nice. And then Megara is not like that. And I feel like that's kind of a shift for like she was kind of a shift towards more variety of different kind of women in these different kinds of female characters in the next eras of Disney. But, like, in the Renaissance, it was like.
[00:45:53] Speaker C: She would have fit perfectly in, like, the 2000s.
[00:45:55] Speaker B: She would have fit in the 2000s or the she was wonderful.
[00:45:58] Speaker C: Yeah, she was great.
[00:45:59] Speaker B: I love her design, too. Like, the triangle.
[00:46:03] Speaker C: Yeah, the hair like that.
[00:46:05] Speaker B: I would try and do that in real life.
[00:46:06] Speaker C: The hair was great.
[00:46:08] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know. Her hair just stands out to me. I don't know why, but, yeah, this is pretty good. This is a pretty good movie. Again, I think it's one of my least lesser favorites of the Renaissance. But, again, I think I still like it more than Rescuers Down Under and maybe one or two of the others. So, yeah, it's still good.
[00:46:23] Speaker C: Middle of the pack.
[00:46:24] Speaker B: Yeah, it's the Renaissance for a reason.
[00:46:27] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:46:28] Speaker B: We're going to my favorite. And yeah, this is my favorite, Milan.
[00:46:31] Speaker C: Yes. You know what's funny? I feel so bad for always forgetting this one because this is an amazing movie.
I forget, if anything, eddie Murphy's Mushu was my spirit animal from like, eight to 15.
[00:46:47] Speaker B: I remember watching this and then realizing Donkey and Shrek was him. And I got so excited.
[00:46:52] Speaker C: Yeah. No, once I heard that they were the same voice that got me really excited for Shrek.
[00:47:00] Speaker B: I found it in theater. I think I heard it and was like, oh, it's Mushu, or whatever. Because I've always been interested in voice actors and stuff.
[00:47:07] Speaker C: Me, too. I always wanted to be one.
[00:47:09] Speaker B: What was interesting is I kind of think I wanted to be one, too, but I'm not really good with doing voice stuff. Even like, I would do singing and stuff. And I was never that great. I don't have good vocal good. I don't know. It's just not my guess. Oh, well.
[00:47:24] Speaker C: And also, Mulan is our first introduction to one of today's icons in Migna wen as Mulan.
[00:47:30] Speaker B: Yes. She is coming to Toronto, supposedly. We'll see if she cancels or not in August. And I cannot wait.
[00:47:36] Speaker C: My brother's met her. Apparently. She's awesome.
[00:47:38] Speaker B: Please let me go to this con and cover her panel or whatever.
[00:47:42] Speaker C: Yeah, right.
[00:47:44] Speaker B: Okay, so we'll get to mingnowen in a minute because I want to get to her in a second. But yeah, I want to say before about this movie, this is one I felt like as a kid. I think my parents liked it more than I did. But, I mean, I still really like it. And then I guess I got older. It became my favorite.
[00:47:58] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. It really grew on you with age.
[00:48:01] Speaker B: Yeah. With Ning Nawen. So I think she got her Disney Legend Award when I was at the Disney Legend ceremony.
[00:48:09] Speaker C: Right.
[00:48:09] Speaker B: Which was D 23 last year. Oh, my gosh. She's 58.
[00:48:15] Speaker C: Wait, she's 58?
[00:48:17] Speaker B: Googling her.
[00:48:19] Speaker C: I'm sorry, there is no way that is I knew she was at least 50, but true?
[00:48:23] Speaker B: Is this true?
Yeah, November 20, 1963. She's 58.
[00:48:29] Speaker C: Okay, whatever she does to look like apparently 58 is the new 30 because holy hell, I thought she was maybe.
[00:48:38] Speaker B: Early forty s I don't know. But then again, she voiced in Mulan, so that's a while ago.
Mulan was like, ten years ago.
[00:48:44] Speaker C: No, it's almost 25 years ago now, which is really weird.
[00:48:51] Speaker B: But with her, it's interesting because she's been in this she's been in Star Wars, she's done Marvel. It's like, what else do you have to do? She has to either a live action Disney or no, she has to do a Pixar, I guess. And then she's got what I call the Disney gauntlet.
[00:49:04] Speaker C: You know, like she's got the Disney gauntlet for sure.
[00:49:08] Speaker B: That's my version of the Disney gauntlet. Because I don't need maybe I need your opinion on this because I'm trying to think of the four pillars. Right? Because I want to do four, like the EGOT. So you have Star Wars and Marvel.
[00:49:19] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:49:21] Speaker B: But I don't know what the other three should be. Should it be a voice and an animated one and doing a live action one under Disney or just regular live action? Or should be Disney or Pixar and one of Disney's original?
[00:49:32] Speaker C: That's the question. Because you got Marvel and Star Wars for sure. I'm not sure if Pixar yeah, and.
[00:49:40] Speaker B: Then you have to either be live action or animated in Disney.
[00:49:44] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure.
[00:49:46] Speaker B: So I think she's almost got it because I don't think she's been Pixar yet. I'm, like, waiting for hello, Pixar. Can we please make that happen?
[00:49:52] Speaker C: Yeah, come get get Ming Nawen in there. She's amazing.
[00:49:55] Speaker B: And then she's got it. I'm trying to figure if anyone does.
[00:49:58] Speaker C: Have it, that'd be really interesting.
If there is, I doubt it's very many.
[00:50:05] Speaker B: Can Oscar Isaac get it? Maybe, because he's done Star Wars in this, and I think he's voiced in some could.
[00:50:11] Speaker C: He could get it. He just needs to do, like, a Disney or a Pixar or something like that because he's got Star Wars, and.
[00:50:17] Speaker B: I mean, like, anyone with both Star Wars or Marvel or Marvel and, like a voice acting thing like Tom Holland and Chris Pratt did onward. So they have those, right? They can voice Chris Pratt's the voice and everything. I'm like, I'm waiting for him to voice or be in another you know what's? Indiana Jones. That's a yeah, it might, but yeah, that's just a yeah.
[00:50:38] Speaker C: Yeah. I was going to say weirdly. The only thing Chris Pratt hasn't voiced is, like, a classic Disney movie because onward was Pixar.
[00:50:44] Speaker B: Yeah, you just did. Yeah.
[00:50:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:50:45] Speaker B: So waiting for that, I'm like, can we take him off of Mario and put him on that instead? I feel because I don't like his Garfield, I feel like that's a good spot for him.
[00:50:53] Speaker C: Yeah, he'd be good. But anyway, mulan. I mean, just mulan.
[00:50:57] Speaker B: Yes. Sorry. Yeah, but I love that gauntlet idea. So anyway. But yeah. Mulan. This is such a good I forgot who did the music. I know. Christina angular sang reflection.
[00:51:07] Speaker C: She did? Yes.
[00:51:08] Speaker B: Wrote it. She also sang it at G 23, the year I went. So when John Favreau and Mingnowen were getting their awards and everything, she sang it before they went up there. She had the piano, and she was, like, singing it live. It was amazing.
[00:51:20] Speaker C: That sounds really cool.
[00:51:22] Speaker B: Amazing moment. It was like, yes, I was in the room for that. It was amazing. Okay, so okay. David Zappel, Matthew Wilder, Jerry Goldsmith. I've heard of him. And Stevie Wonder. Of course I've heard of him.
[00:51:32] Speaker C: He did the true wonder. Yes.
That song was my jam when this movie came out.
[00:51:39] Speaker B: It's a good song.
This is my favorite song. Probably all of Disney. I mean, some of the Mary Poppins songs do rivala is I'll Make a man out of you.
[00:51:47] Speaker C: Oh, God. Absolutely.
You sing that to 90s kids, and we're all just going to start singing along.
[00:51:57] Speaker B: And then Girl Worth Fighting For is a good song, too. The only real complaint, I guess I have of this movie is like, the villain is really unmemorable. But that kind of does make him more scary, kind of, in a way, because he's just menacing. He's just kind of there and he like yeah, exactly.
[00:52:11] Speaker C: He wasn't but but there was some.
[00:52:13] Speaker B: Good stuff to him. He's not really one of the classic Disney villains. Like, I have my Disney villain Pin set up there, and he's not in it.
[00:52:20] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:52:22] Speaker B: But they made one. So, like, all the other Renaissance villains almost like yeah, Hades is there, Frolo's there, and Scar and Ursula are all there, and then they don't have Ratcliffe either. So I guess he's not alone and not making a cut.
[00:52:38] Speaker C: Yeah, I guess.
But no, Mulan is so good.
[00:52:44] Speaker B: Yeah. I feel like it was, like, one of the big ones that made a big case for the female empowerment as well. Although Mulan is kind of more like the other leads than Megura was, right?
[00:52:53] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. Mulan's definitely more the lead.
[00:52:55] Speaker B: But she's like a lot of, like yeah. Side characters were great. Moosh was great. Like, the other guys yelling Chen PO were great. I think the guy Lee Shang, the Captain was a good love interest. I thought he was, like, a good character.
[00:53:10] Speaker C: Donnie Osmond was his singing voice, which.
[00:53:13] Speaker B: Is great, I'm pretty sure was the Mulan. Singing voice. And she's amazing, too. She's like a Broadway legend.
[00:53:20] Speaker C: Yeah. And she's done a bunch of other Disney stuff, too.
[00:53:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I think she voiced Jasmine.
[00:53:25] Speaker C: I think it was Jasmine, the singing voice.
[00:53:27] Speaker B: Yeah, for Jasmine, I'm pretty sure it was both.
[00:53:30] Speaker C: Maybe both, actually.
[00:53:31] Speaker B: This is such a good movie.
I don't know. I like how at the end, they kind of like gender men, everything, and they have the guys dressing as women and joining in drag to that was great. I like the grandma.
[00:53:46] Speaker C: I was just going to say, she has arguably my favorite was, would you like to stay for dinner? Would you like to stay forever?
[00:53:54] Speaker B: Sign me up for the next war.
[00:53:58] Speaker C: I wish all of us had a grandma like her.
[00:54:01] Speaker B: Yes.
I don't know.
This is just, like, such a fun movie. I really like it a lot. It's just so fun. It's so cool.
And I mean, I love the training camp scenes a lot.
I like the message. It's just really good. And then we have one more movie left. This one's the only one besides Friskers Down Under that's not, like, technically a musical. I mean, there was one song they kind of did, right?
[00:54:26] Speaker C: For sure.
[00:54:27] Speaker B: But it's Tarzan. It's just the music of Phil Collins. I do not have to Google that one.
[00:54:32] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.
But you know what's funny? I will say this. It's not a musical, but here's what I always say about this movie. Phil Collins did not have to go that hard on this movie, and he did for us.
[00:54:46] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:54:47] Speaker C: No. Phil Collins absolutely nailed this.
[00:54:51] Speaker B: I still want another Phil Collins. Disney. I want a trilogy. I want this brother bear.
[00:54:55] Speaker C: And another one and something else. Yeah, I'd be down for that.
[00:54:58] Speaker B: I really love Brother Bear, but that's like one of my favorites of the next era. But this is a pretty cool movie.
I feel like it's cool because for a lot of the movie, the main character is it true that Tarzan doesn't talk for a lot of the movie because he can't really speak. So he has to learn to speak, but he talks when the animals are talking. I haven't seen this one. I couldn't tell since I was in.
[00:55:18] Speaker C: There are definitely portions where he goes not talking.
[00:55:21] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's like how they do the animation and stuff and how to make it compelling for kids still. Because I feel like when animal characters don't talk, a lot of the time, kids aren't in.
[00:55:30] Speaker C: Well, yeah. When the main character movie isn't as involved as he maybe should be, it's not quite as interesting.
[00:55:36] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's like it's good that they kept it, like, ways for kids to kind of engage with it still.
Yeah.
It's just Phil Collins kind of singing in the background for most songs. It still really works. It's a lot of montages. I do like the trash in the camp scene.
[00:55:50] Speaker C: Yes. That was good. And I think Instinct did a version of that song, too, maybe with Phil Collins.
[00:55:56] Speaker B: I think I have to check that out. One thing you should definitely all check out is go look up trash in the camp mixed with I Just Can't Wait to Be King.
Okay.
[00:56:06] Speaker C: That sounds amazing. I'm checking that out. As soon as we get off this.
[00:56:10] Speaker B: Amazing, I will send it to you.
I hope it's still on YouTube. It's that good.
[00:56:15] Speaker C: Nice.
[00:56:15] Speaker B: Yes. This one has, like we're both marvel people. We talk a lot about Easter eggs. This one has some pretty fun Easter eggs.
[00:56:22] Speaker C: Yes, it does.
[00:56:24] Speaker B: The different characters you see, like, Mrs. Potts and Ship kind of set yeah.
[00:56:28] Speaker C: In the trash in the camp scene.
[00:56:30] Speaker B: You might see other animals from other Disney movies, too.
[00:56:33] Speaker C: I'm not well, it's funny. The one I remember going back always was the little beast statue in Aladdin where Sultan was building that giant thing before it gets knocked down.
[00:56:44] Speaker B: Yeah. I think the other Easter egg of this one was actually, like, the other way around. It was like frozen. Like, there's this Frozen theory that the.
[00:56:51] Speaker C: Yeah, somehow it connects to Frozen. That it's like the same ship that.
[00:56:55] Speaker B: Would be like that's like the Pixar theory.
Because I don't know enough about that. I'd have to research that to do an episode on that one. It's really cool.
So yeah. So any other thoughts on Tarzan? This is the last Disney Renaissance movie because I guess because after that, they started doing different animation styles and the music kind of peppered off for a lot of these movies. So it's like that era kind of ended here and it was the end of the 90s. So it's a good place to cut off a little bit what we look back on as the era.
But it's a good one to end on.
[00:57:26] Speaker C: Yeah. I had a lot of fun with this movie. This one came out when I was about eight or nine, so I really exactly. I really remember seeing this one a lot. I remember the animation looked really super cool. The way they improved it. The way things look at the beginning of the decade to how they look in Tarzan is really kind of vastly different.
It all looks great, but the stuff they did with computers and stuff in Tarzan was super cool.
[00:57:54] Speaker B: Sliding on the vines, kind of it wasn't just sliding. He was sliding around. Was he based on Tony Hawk or something?
[00:58:01] Speaker C: I feel like yes, I think he was. I think they did take inspiration from Tony Hawk. All the skateboard is like they weren't.
[00:58:09] Speaker B: Like, going totally like a lot of the movies in the next era were very modern, like, in terms of the way they talked. And also, sometimes we're set in the modern day, but this one was like you could see kind of starting to go there with this movie.
[00:58:21] Speaker C: Exactly. This is kind of the start of that.
[00:58:23] Speaker B: Based on Tony Hawk. Yeah. Kind of like how Little commercial from 1998. Okay. Yeah, I'm going to watch that.
That showed up when I nice.
[00:58:33] Speaker C: But yeah, like I said, the animation was great. This one, again, had a great voice cast. Rosie O'Donnell as Turk was mean. I like the characters. I think Minnie Driver was.
[00:58:47] Speaker B: That was her.
[00:58:48] Speaker C: I think.
[00:58:51] Speaker B: She was I don't see her. No, no. Yeah. Sorry. I'm always looking under the story by no, it's yeah, it's Mini Driver. Glenn Close.
[00:58:58] Speaker C: Glenn Close was the mom. Yeah.
[00:59:01] Speaker B: Who I think became famous after I don't know.
[00:59:04] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:59:05] Speaker B: Maybe I see you, Taylor moms then. Sorry.
[00:59:07] Speaker C: Also, can I just say, Glenn Close has range. I mean, she did 101 Dalmatians before this movie, and then she went to Marvel and yeah.
[00:59:18] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Okay, so Lily Collins, who's Phil Collins daughter, who is now on the show, emily in Paris. That's a really popular Netflix show right now.
I think she voiced baby she played a baby ape in this. So she had a cameo. I think this was like her first project.
[00:59:34] Speaker C: Nice. Okay. Lily Collins was in this. That's awesome.
[00:59:38] Speaker B: Yes. This is a cool movie.
I feel like this one maybe didn't end it with a huge bang. I mean, the last scene kind of, like, ended the Renaissance.
[00:59:45] Speaker C: Oh, absolutely.
[00:59:46] Speaker B: Wasn't like had any giant, crazy musical numbers, but it was still a really good time. It was a nice one. And it kind of fed into the next era. Like, all the eras, of course, feed into each other. So this one you could see Hawk stuff kind of looming into the next era. So that's it for the Disney Renaissance. We've already said our favorites. I think mine was Mulan and yours was Lion King, for sure. I would have guessed that beforehand.
Shout out to Beast and Aladdin for me as well. Those are my other agreed. I love them all so much. All these movies are great. There's a reason. It's the Disney Renaissance. It's just think this going into the fandom theme of this, and I don't want to go too much longer because I don't want you guys getting bored of listening. But tied into that, I do think it kind of revitalized the enthusiasm for Disney in some ways because every era since then has either been Disney dominance or Pixar dominance. And that really into Disney because it made the theme parks a thing, more of a thing. And Pixar went to the theme parks, made it more of, like a fan of and I think this was when the Internet was starting to so, like, this was kind of like what the Disney fandom was built upon. So a lot of people nerds now and, like, the Disney fandom online know these. They not all of them know the older ones as much, especially not the Dark era, but some of them haven't even seen Snow White and all those, but most of them have seen this. So I feel like this was, like the start of that. So it's good to look back on. Like, I'm not sure exactly which specific moments would really.
[01:01:13] Speaker C: I think now when people look back on Disney movies, I think this is the first era that they look back on.
[01:01:18] Speaker B: Really, the like the first thing that comes to mind, I want to say, because they deserve to be remembered. Yes, some of them have problematic stuff in it. And yes.
But I don't think they shall be forgotten. Like Alice in Wonderland. That one's good.
And also living memory of the fandom, I would say. Although there's Disney fans of all ages. I've been to D 23. I've seen them. A lot of them are collectors.
[01:01:41] Speaker C: One that wasn't technically in the Renaissance. But I do want to shout out because it's a 90s movie, a Goofy movie.
[01:01:51] Speaker B: I think a lot of the modern based stuff was based on that because it was very much set in the present day.
[01:01:55] Speaker C: Yeah, that one was my life for about a year.
[01:02:00] Speaker B: Yeah, a lot of people are really nostalgic for that one. For me, I like Nightmare for Christmas and James the Giant Peach. And those were in the 90s as well. James of the Giant Peach was also.
[01:02:09] Speaker C: Right around when I was love that one. Yeah.
[01:02:11] Speaker B: But again, those are not from all Disney animation.
[01:02:14] Speaker C: Exactly.
[01:02:15] Speaker B: They don't Renaissance, but I still like them. Maybe we should do an episode on that.
[01:02:19] Speaker C: Yeah. Like the forgotten non Renaissance ones.
[01:02:23] Speaker B: Disney Non Renaissance.
[01:02:24] Speaker C: The exactly. Because there were some good ones in there.
[01:02:29] Speaker B: But yes, this was really fun. Glad to get to do this. We should probably wrap this up because this is getting longer than some of our other ones, but yeah. Thank you so much.
[01:02:37] Speaker C: Yeah, no, thanks. Thanks for having me. This is a great time. I can't wait to watch some of these again.
[01:02:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Everyone let us know in the comments or wherever you're listening. This tell us on Twitter, I guess, on what's your favorite Disney Renaissance movie and what's your favorite Disney Renaissance song? And were you surprised, as we were, to learn that was in some of these movies and like oh, yeah.
[01:03:01] Speaker C: Some of the roles?
[01:03:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
Wow.
[01:03:06] Speaker C: Yeah, this was a blast.
[01:03:08] Speaker B: Thank you very much, everybody. Bye.
[01:03:11] Speaker C: Thanks, guys.
[01:03:22] Speaker A: Thank you so much for tuning in to the second episode of the Cosmic Cafe here at the Cosmic Circus. And thanks to Richard for joining us. Be sure to follow him on Twitter at richard Nebbins. Be sure to follow Cosmic Circus on Twitter at Mycosmic Circus, as well as on Instagram.
[01:03:36] Speaker B: And we're on TikTok.
[01:03:37] Speaker A: We have some really good stuff going on on TikTok. So once again, thank you so much for listening. Looking forward to next week when we discuss something very appropriate for Val Valentine's Day. I must say. But yeah, looking forward to that. And thank you so much for tuning in this weekend.
