[00:00:30] Speaker A: Hello there, and welcome back to the Cosmic Cafe
[email protected]. This is where we talk about a different fandom every week, a nostalgic fandom, and how we got into it and how it affects our lives today, fandom and otherwise. And this week, we are talking to admin at FandomWire and writer at Geeksbag Nation and host at comic book Saga, Elijah Box Hill. And we're getting topical again this week because our topic is Batman. Just anything Batman. All things batman. Everything Batman. We had a great time talking about it, and we hope you enjoyed this conversation we had.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: Hi. Thank you for coming to the Cosmic Cafe. Elijah.
[00:01:12] Speaker C: I'm glad to be here. I'm so excited to talk with you today.
[00:01:16] Speaker B: Great. And we're talking about Batman because we have movie coming out next week.
Yep, I'm sure that will be discussed on the Cosmic Circus podcast. But here we're talking about the nostalgic aspects of Batman because that's what we do here. So, yeah, what is Batman to how what has your experience with Batman in your life been like so far?
[00:01:41] Speaker C: So, obviously, I'm a little bit on the younger side, so I don't really have the experience with the George Clooney Batman and the Michael Keaton Batman and the nostalgia that everyone else has with that. But for me, it's more like going to the comic book store and seeing all the Batman comics and going to pick up a few just because the COVID is cool. And that kind of growing into what I do today. And even with the movies, I will say that the ones that have come out, I haven't been the biggest fans of how Batman has been portrayed. But in general, I think Batman is just like, a really great character, and I think a lot of people hold that nostalgic value that he carries because he's more of, like, the showman of the DC universe other than Superman and the whole Justice League. So they kind of have that big appeal to them no matter what comes out or how they're portraying.
[00:02:44] Speaker B: Oh, I think Batman is more popular than Superman. Now, would you agree with that? Because I think a lot of people think Superman's lame.
[00:02:50] Speaker C: I think Batman is basically the face of DC, but I think Superman is more the face of all superheroes. I think when you think of a superhero, the first thing that comes to mind is the cape and the superpowers super strength and what the abilities you can like. When I think superhero, the first thing that comes to my mind isn't Tony Stark, because I don't think that he's not very super in his actual abilities, but his genius mind is what kind of elevates him. So I think when you think of, like, a superhero, you think of their physical abilities, know, the flying and the nice spandex and whatever.
[00:03:39] Speaker B: I think that's a good way of putting it, because that does make sense. I think in terms of specific characters, superman is less popular nowadays, but in terms of the image of a superhero, it's still him.
[00:03:51] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure.
[00:03:51] Speaker B: Generic superhero. Generic Superman. Yeah, basically.
So, yeah, with Batman, what draws you to Batman?
[00:04:06] Speaker C: I really like the dark character.
I really like the idea of the secret identity. I know a lot of superheroes don't really dive into a lot of that anymore, and their identities kind of get blasted out there, and the films kind of have it everywhere. But I like the different personas that you get to see in between the characters and what you can see, like, them battling between personas and their different lifestyles. And I think Batman really personifies that the best other know, Spider man, he's like a teenager and a superhero at the same time. So I think those two characters really exemplify that and them being in different universes and different comic verses, it really shows for both of those universes, like, how much these secret identities matter.
[00:05:05] Speaker B: So, yeah, Batman's like, the most famous one with a secret identity. Now, in terms of, like well, I'm guessing I'll say the movies because that's the most mainstream version of these characters. Although Spider man is now back to being a secret. So that's the highest for Marvel.
Spoilers for no way home.
Listening to this podcast, have heard it already, so I'm sure you know by now it's your fault. Really. I shouldn't apologize for that.
Oh, my gosh. Well, anyway, so, yeah, in terms of Batman, what's your favorite Batman era or version of canon or, like, movies?
[00:05:50] Speaker C: In terms of the films, I think my favorite movies were the Christian Bale Batman movies. But I think in terms of Batman, I think Michael Keaton and I didn't even grow up with you've seen have.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: You seen all the live action Batman movies?
[00:06:11] Speaker C: Not like the ones from before Michael.
[00:06:13] Speaker B: Keaton, but yeah, there was only like, one. I think there was like, one. Yeah, but you've seen all the ones since Michael Keaton. Okay, so that's quite a few.
[00:06:22] Speaker C: Not very fond. I think I seen the George, the clooney ones, like, long time ago.
[00:06:30] Speaker B: That's Batman and Robin, right? And Batman forever, as I think.
[00:06:35] Speaker C: And then Batman. And Batman returns for Keaton.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: Yeah. And then Christian Bales after that. And then it was the DCEU's Batman bat Pleck, which was Batman v superman and the justice league, and then Zack Snyder's Justice league. So, yeah, there's been quite a few. But Batman hasn't had his own movie in like, ten years.
[00:06:58] Speaker C: That's been a long time. 2012. Yeah.
[00:07:00] Speaker B: So this seems like the right time to have a new movie, but your favorite is the dark knight one. So why is your favorite the dark knight trilogy?
[00:07:08] Speaker C: I guess I think the whole way that just, like, the cinematography, the whole aspect, the plot. And like I said, I didn't really like Christian Bale as Batman. I thought he was great. As Bruce Wayne, but I didn't think that he really brought the Batman character to life as good as other actors have. So just like the dark feeling of Gotham in some places and seeing Bane go into the stock exchange and things like that, it kind of brought that creepy feeling, like, what if someone actually needed to save us from, like, the destruction looked like. And that was before a lot of the marvel movies and the big marvel movies that are out now. So that was like a really big thing back then. So for me, it was kind of just like seeing it with other people. And then I was obviously younger. So kind of that fear of having to see all these villains and then joker with the hospital, all of that was just like fear inducing more as a younger kid.
[00:08:18] Speaker B: So I think that brought more lord movie came out.
[00:08:20] Speaker C: Sorry, what was that, six or seven?
[00:08:25] Speaker B: Was that the first Batman? Was that dark knight or Batman begins?
[00:08:28] Speaker C: I think it was the second one.
[00:08:30] Speaker B: That was eight.
[00:08:32] Speaker C: I was six.
[00:08:35] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, you are so young.
[00:08:37] Speaker C: I am.
[00:08:38] Speaker B: I would have been twelve that year.
[00:08:40] Speaker C: I would have turned twelve in 819 right now.
[00:08:45] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah.
Are you turning 20 this year?
[00:08:49] Speaker A: Then?
[00:08:49] Speaker C: That means in November. Yeah.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: Okay, so you just turned 19 a few months ago. Oh, my gosh. I'm sorry.
[00:08:54] Speaker C: I know. I'm like the youngest in my class. I was the youngest in my class. Crazy.
[00:08:58] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
I don't know. My class years ended in December. We just did it based on calendar year. So yeah, November december would be the younger ones. I was right in the middle. I was in June.
[00:09:09] Speaker C: Oh, wow.
[00:09:10] Speaker B: But with the thing with Batman is, are you one of those people who likes Batman because of Batman the character, or because of the other characters in the Batman world? More so.
[00:09:18] Speaker C: No, I like Batman as a character. And the more of the thing is, I like film the films more than I like to read comic books, if that makes sense. So when I see Batman, I don't think he's being portrayed right in the current era. Right.
Mean, even Christian Bale, like I said, I didn't have the particular interest in his Batman character, but Batfleck, even in his own, I didn't have the appeal for Batman versus Superman because I felt like it needed something before. Like, it dove straight into having the metahumans and starting the justice league, and it was just too much for me.
[00:09:59] Speaker B: To see before then.
[00:10:02] Speaker C: Yeah. Honestly, I think that would have made the Snyder verse a lot more acceptable.
[00:10:08] Speaker B: Yeah, it was very I don't know. It's weird. I haven't seen all those, but, like, it makes sense to me because they had a Superman first. They should do a Batman one first. It's weird. The only DCE ones I haven't seen are the ones with Batflick in it, so I can't really comment on that. But, yeah, it's weird to me that they didn't do a Batman first.
[00:10:25] Speaker C: Yeah, it was very OD. And then they introduced the Justice League in the same movie.
[00:10:30] Speaker B: So it's like, yeah, wonder Woman showed up in that one too, before her own movie.
[00:10:33] Speaker C: Was Aquaman in that a they had a file with all the metahumans, and they had Flash on there and Aquaman as well.
[00:10:42] Speaker B: Okay. Because I had these. Do you know the Funko mystery mini toys?
[00:10:47] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:10:48] Speaker B: They come in the little boxes. Yeah. So I found a Batman V Superman one at this thrift place a few weeks ago. And so I got it, but on the back, one of the options was, like, Aquaman. And I'm like, was Aquaman even in that movie? Because I never heard about him actually being in the movie. I knew Wonder Woman was and she.
[00:11:03] Speaker C: Was in, like yeah, no, Wonder Woman was like a main like, she was actually in the battle.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: Oh, she was like, a main part. I didn't think she had that big a role, but I do like her. So maybe I'll check that out then.
[00:11:14] Speaker C: Batman.
[00:11:16] Speaker B: Yeah. So I was surprised I didn't get the Aquaman toy, but I was huh. There's an Aquaman toy in this box. I didn't think he was in that movie. So yeah, good. To clarify.
Anyway, sorry to bore these listeners. I'm sorry. This is a weird episode because there's so much Batman. Batman's kind of everywhere. It's not like with Arthur last week, where it's like, okay, well, here's a series, and here's a book series. That's pretty simple. Batman's like, no, there's this canon. There's that canon anytime we talk about comic stuff. And I don't think we've done a comic book themed episode of this show yet.
[00:11:46] Speaker C: Yeah, every time we do something comic book related on our show, we'll be like, we're aiming for an hour, and then like an hour and 40 minutes in, we're like, oh, God.
[00:11:55] Speaker B: Yeah. The comic book stuff can be kind of complicated, especially if you're not doing a specific movie or specific thing. Just like all of Batman, it's a character he's been around. He's one of the characters who's been around the longest in superhero comics. Was Batman the hero that got you into all this stuff, or was it someone else?
[00:12:12] Speaker C: I'd say for me, it was more of that's. Like, I know that's, like, a thing for a lot of people, but I was growing up with the obviously, I think tobey maguire's first movie came out the year I was born or the year so all those toys. And things were coming out when I was young, so I had the little Silly String web shooters and things like like growing up with that kind of just brought me into it. And I used to go see Marvel movies with my friends, and then I realized they weren't as into it as I was when I was watching everything, like, the day came out and they were like, we'll see it soon. I was like, maybe I should try and do something with this. And I was like, I write decently, so I'll try and write. I've been blessed with some decent opportunities, so that's been good. And the podcast is obviously starting up soon. The comic book saga. So all of this stuff is going well.
[00:13:10] Speaker B: It's interesting, though, because you have the batman and Spiderman each have more movies, I think solo movies than any other superhero. I don't know which one is more I think we could count it, but that bore the listeners. So, listeners, you guys can do the math, but they are the two most and one's Marvel, one's DC. So it's like, especially growing up and around the same time because there was a little bit of overlap with the Batman begins and then the last spider man movie, I guess around the same time, like, were you a Batman kid or a spider man kid or whatever, if you were into all that as a kid. I didn't get into this until I was yeah, but I'm with you on the friend seeing the movie. Like, I don't even bother asking them because it's like, I have to see it one of the first days, partly because it works unless we're going, like, opening weekend. I saw eternals on the Sunday, and that was cutting it. That was, like, kind of pushing it. But I went on the Sunday night because that's when my friend could go. So we wanted to go together.
[00:14:04] Speaker C: Oh, that's cool, though.
[00:14:05] Speaker B: Yeah, and my dad saw it before me, and I got mad. I didn't get mad mad, but I always get annoyed when he sees stuff before me, especially because I'm in this industry now, you guys. But yeah. So back to Batman. So you were more of a spider man kid, but you got into Batman around when the Batman begins films commitment. But you're not as into the comics. But have you read any of the comics at all for Batman?
[00:14:31] Speaker C: I have read comics, and like I said, they're more like as a kid comics. Now I have a couple of spider man comics that I have more as collectible things, but those are downstairs. But like, the comics, like, I did read them as a kid, and it was more of like, oh, that's Batman. That's like an awesome cover thing. But that kind of grew into seeing Batman on the screen and being like, oh, I know Batman, and I know how this guy should be played and things like that.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: How do you think he should be played? We have another movie coming out. Like, how are you going to be judging this new movie?
[00:15:10] Speaker C: I think for Batman, there needs to be a fine line between Batman and Bruce Wayne, but also there needs to be a conflict between Bruce wayne and Batman and how the struggle from being Batman at some points and being Bruce Wayne at some points can affect what's happening at the time. So I know in the Michael Keaton films, you see when the Joker first appears, he kind of just shoots up in front of a bank and Michael Keaton kind of walks towards him, kind of like in the Batman persona. And you can see he's kind of like struggling with not helping at that current moment because he's Bruce Wayne at that time. He can't do anything. But I think what we see from the trailers and stuff, like with Robert Pattinson with his makeup all down and looking like he's kind of just dreading what's happening and all of that a I think it's going to be good, but I think it really has to stand out as a Batman film for everyone to really appreciate it. I think it's really going to have a lot of judgment if it doesn't stand out.
So I'm hoping that the characters and the villains I think The Riddler is going to be great.
Everything I see from that, I just think that's creepy, that's cool. And all the marketing they're doing, it's like super cool. Like the website that they had, all the other stuff. So I think it's shaping up to be a good film. I'm thinking that Batman and Bruce Wayne, they're shaping up to be both great characters in their own, but we just have to see when it comes out because I'm myself is kind of iffy.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: About so I'm iffy because it's 3 hours, really. I'm like, why does this need to be 3 hours? This is the first one in the series. You got to let me like these things first before I want to commit to 3 hours. I will go see.
[00:17:26] Speaker C: So that's what I feel.
The 3 hours is kind of like banking on the people that enjoy Batman.
[00:17:33] Speaker B: Already, which a lot of people do. You can get by on the name. Like, I think with like, DC is very up and down hit in this. In terms of movies, it doesn't have the brand recognition that Marvel does, but Batman himself does.
[00:17:46] Speaker C: Yeah. Especially with the title the Batman.
[00:17:49] Speaker B: Yeah. That's pretty straightforward. Batman.
Yeah. So you were praising Michael Keaton's performance, I noticed. Would you say he's the best live action one so far for Batman?
[00:18:05] Speaker C: Yeah, honestly, in my opinion, I'd say he's the less live action Batman. I don't know. Like I said, I think the Dark Knight series are the best films. But I think as in terms of Batman and Bruce Wayne, the character, I think a lot of things have developed off of what he's done, like the dark voice and him changing his voice. Obviously, the black suit and how the cowl is made. Everything is kind of just like based off of what he did. So he's kind of had the golden standard for me, right?
[00:18:42] Speaker B: Definitely. Really? I really liked his performance a lot as well. Have you ever watched any of the animated stuff for cause? Like, my favorite Batman canon is The Animated Series.
[00:18:55] Speaker C: I want to say I watched them when I was as more like cartoons on the TV channel when I was younger, and not more of in depth episode to episode watches.
[00:19:07] Speaker B: Right. You could watch Standalone, though, right?
[00:19:11] Speaker C: What happened?
[00:19:12] Speaker B: A lot of them. You could watch Standalone, though, right?
[00:19:14] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm sure you.
[00:19:18] Speaker B: There'S. There's one call, actually called the Batman, and there was Batman The Animated Series, and then there was like a spin off almost of Batman The Animated Series, but it was like more episodes of the same thing, you know what I mean?
Did any of those or even animated movies or anything that stand out to you for Batman or you're just like, the live action movies is like, your main thing?
[00:19:38] Speaker C: I don't really have a major thought on them. Like I said, I don't really have a vivid memory of them. I might have watched them time to time. I watched the new Injustice movie, the animated one. Not sure. Did you get a chance to see that?
[00:19:53] Speaker B: No, I haven't seen that.
[00:19:54] Speaker C: I wasn't the biggest fan of that, so it kind of drew me away from the animated sense.
I was rewatching some of the old Avengers animated shows the other day, so I think maybe I'll watch some of The Animated Batman series now that you.
[00:20:12] Speaker B: Bring it up, like, the original one or not, whatever. I don't know if it's the first one they ever did, but Batman The.
[00:20:17] Speaker C: Animated Series, I've watched that one.
[00:20:20] Speaker B: Yeah, that's where Harley Quinn came from.
[00:20:23] Speaker C: Oh, really?
[00:20:24] Speaker B: Some other characters, but yeah, Harley Quinn, that's where she originated from. And then they put her in the comics after, so that's pretty cool.
Yeah, I just like Harley Quinn, but I like the other stuff in the show too, but that's why I started watching it. But yeah. So any other thoughts on Batman? And I don't like it's such a big, like, I don't know where to dive into with it. It's so crazy.
[00:20:47] Speaker C: Yeah, it's like the widest topic ever.
[00:20:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's the widest topic we've done yet because when we did Disney, we did like, let's just do Disney Renaissance, like, ten years. I'm like, okay, we can do one character, Batman, but it's like it's Batman who's been around. I think he just had his 80th anniversary a couple of years ago.
[00:21:04] Speaker C: He's everywhere.
[00:21:05] Speaker B: Yeah, 1930 something or 40 something. He came in I think it was like 39, maybe. I could be wrong, but yeah.
Any other thoughts on Batman?
[00:21:24] Speaker C: I think he's great. I'm really excited to see the new movie.
I'm going on the first at the Fan premiere event, so I'm really excited to see it.
[00:21:38] Speaker B: Have you been to one of those before at all?
[00:21:40] Speaker C: I have not. I don't know what I'm in store for.
[00:21:43] Speaker B: I keep wanting to go to one of those, and then I always miss it. Just miss it for my city because I'm, like, the only Canadian city. They do those things, and I don't know if they're doing it for Batman, but they do it for the Marvel ones.
[00:21:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:21:55] Speaker B: Missing it. So, yeah, hopefully I want to go to one of these things as press, to be honest.
[00:22:00] Speaker C: That's what I want to go I know, right?
[00:22:04] Speaker B: That's what I should be there as. But anyway, we won't get into that. And you should really be there as press, too, to be honest.
[00:22:10] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:13] Speaker B: I emailed Warner Brothers and they're like, yeah, we'll let you know. They never let me know.
[00:22:17] Speaker C: Are you on Media Pass?
[00:22:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I was looking for many media. Wait, what's media? Pass.
[00:22:23] Speaker C: I think it's like their publicity thing.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: Oh, I don't know. I should look into yeah, yeah, I guess anyone listening?
[00:22:33] Speaker C: I guess you can look into me.
[00:22:34] Speaker B: Do your thing at Elijah on Twitter.
[00:22:36] Speaker C: What's your at optical cinema.
[00:22:41] Speaker B: Optical Cinema. Go, Adam and ask about Media Pass for Warner Brothers and all that good stuff. I'm sure he knows everything. Thank you so much for joining us today, Elijah. This was fun. Yeah. If anyone has any thoughts on Batman and wants to ask us any more specific questions, let us know on Twitter at Optical Cinema. At Julia Delbell.
We'll answer your questions. It's just like this is such a wide topic. I think we had a little trouble with this one. But this was fun.
[00:23:05] Speaker C: Yeah, it was fun. It was a pleasure being here.
[00:23:22] Speaker A: Thank you so much for joining us once again at the Cosmic Cafe
[email protected]. We did all plugging for the podcast and such at the end of the episode, but make sure to check out the Cosmic Circus podcast because they're going to be discussing the Batman, and you won't want to miss that. That'll be coming up pretty soon. So yeah. Thanks for listening, Sam.
