Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 <silence>
Speaker 1 00:00:16 Hey everyone, welcome to the Cosmic Circle, the official podcast for the cosmic circus.com, where the sites writers get together and chat about comic book, sci-fi and fantasy films and TV series. This week we'll be talking about the very first Disney Plus Day and all of the reveals it brought us. If we have time, we'll also chat about the latest installment in the M C U Chloe Js Eternals. I'm Uday Kataria, writer for the Cosmic Circus. And joining me today are my fellow writers, Brian, Julia, and Vin. How's everyone doing today?
Speaker 2 00:00:47 Hey, it's Brian. Um, I'm doing great. It's great to be here.
Speaker 3 00:00:51 It's Julia here. Things are good here.
Speaker 2 00:00:53 Hey,
Speaker 4 00:00:54 It's Vin doing Fantastic.
Speaker 1 00:00:56 Glad to hear it. So what did we all think of Disney plus day? Brian, do you want to get us started?
Speaker 2 00:01:02 Absolutely. Um, I think that Disney Plus Day offered some really good, um, looks into what's coming up. It also provided some really good, you know, just, not just Marvel but also Star Wars and um, a whole bunch of different things. Uh, so it was really cool to kind of have a special day for the platform and to see how um, all the different studios are expo are expanding. Brian,
Speaker 4 00:01:24 I'm curious, how would you compare Disney plus Day to DC fandom?
Speaker 2 00:01:28 That's a great question. They seemed relatively, um, similar in what they provided us. I don't think any DC fandom and or Disney plus. They gave us a great look into what's coming. You know, we definitely got to see some, a lot of titles. We got to see videos of, you know, the stars talking, but there wasn't really any looks into the projects, which I feel like DC fandom didn't provide a lot of looks either. But I was also excited to see, you know, some of the new titles or the new designs for the title sequences for some of the Marvel projects in the little couple minute presentation they put on there was on Disney plus. Marvel was really cool because you got to see some looks at some of the characters, but I don't think that there was one that really stood out above the the other one. What do you think?
Speaker 4 00:02:13 I think, uh, for me Disney Plus Day was a little bit strange 'cause it, they were showing just so many logos. It felt like kind of just a slideshow of just Photoshop logos and I mean the, the footage was cool. I'm really glad that we got the footage, but I thought it was strange that they didn't release it publicly. Like Disney themselves didn't really sit publicly because you would think this is supposed to appeal to people to sign up for Disney Plus, but how do you do that if it's only for people already on Disney Plus I, I expected, I don't know, a little bit more. I thought the X-Men 97 thing was super, super cool and I have uh, one or two articles coming out soon about some of my big thoughts about it. But I really, I don't know. I expected like some kind of release states I expected a little bit more from Star Wars. Like they have the and or series. They have all these different series coming up and we know almost nothing about any of them. I I, I honestly expected a bit more even fan dome I, I thought did better giving us more trailers and making it public for everyone to see. Julia, what do you think? Yeah, I pretty
Speaker 5 00:03:13 Much agree. I'm getting annoyed with these Disney announcements. Been a prom for a couple years now or maybe it's not a problem, but they tend to remind you all the time of like what's coming up or whatever. And it's, they treat it like announcements, but it's ones we already know and it's like they act like it's brand new information. And I mean some of it was brand new information yesterday and some of it wasn't like we got a few new logos or whatever on the special itself. They promoted a few new things I think just so they didn't leave them out even though they were, I mean, not new things, things we already knew about. Like we knew about Armor Wars, we knew about <inaudible> now those were on the special, those weren't on Twitter, but like, it feels like it's like we're supposed to see it's brand new information even though it's not.
Speaker 5 00:03:52 Now I'm glad we got some things like the official Agatha House of Ness title and I'm glad we got some actual new projects. Like mostly the Spider-Man one I'm excited about, but I know some people like the X-Men one as well and I, I, I don't have a connection to that, but like I acknowledge it as like a new announcement and that's a cool thing. But I think a lot of things are just reiterating old stuff and like slightly altering it. Like we got some slightly new logos, but it's like, it's not like it's new information. So it's really just, I don't know, it's like there's something, it's the same thing over and over again and treating it like new and it's not. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:04:21 Yeah. I completely,
Speaker 5 00:04:22 But yeah, but it's the same show and reading didn't any information and I agree we should have shown the footage online because it was supposed to entice new people because plus, and I don't think it did that. It just was a thread and that's it. And I wish it was a live stream and even like trying to find the specials for Pixar and Marvel on the site sucked. And I'm also like, where was Star Wars? 'cause there's a lot of that community, it left a lot to be desired. Like the announcements themselves were fine, but just like the way they packaged them and made a lot of other things seem new, but they were old. Yeah,
Speaker 4 00:04:51 I completely agree. I I had a funny theory, uh, for Agatha House of Harkness. The, the logo looks so like dramatic and sinister and spooky. But I thought it'd be really funny if the series, if it starts with her just stuck in the suburbs after Wanda Vision and she's literally stuck in her house. So it's a House of Harkness because she's just stuck as a suburban lady just living in, in the middle of this Westview town house of Harkness. So, um, I'm hoping it's a, it's a pun like that that would be,
Speaker 5 00:05:22 I could see it like that, but I could also see that maybe being the framing device and they show bits of her past as well. 'cause I don't know what they're gonna do if she's, I don't think she's just gonna be that lady that sweet, um, neighborly lady the whole time. 'cause like if it's house of Parkinson's about like the black comedy, I don't think it's gonna be like that, but I think that could be a good framing device or a good first episode. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:05:39 Yeah. Um, sorry, sorry Brian. Um, I, I kind of wanna write an article about this 'cause I was trying to think of what it could mean. 'cause House of Harkness would seem to imply to me that it's gonna like kind of like be about her family and like they said, we'll explore her past. But if you have her in like Westview as a sitcom and then you also explore her past, that's just Wanda vision with a new main character. So I feel like it could start off, like Julia said, like the first episode could be like that. Um, but I'm really hoping that it turns into something different. Like even if it's still a comedy, I think
Speaker 2 00:06:11 That it would be, you know, very interesting to start off that way because it really played to Catherine Han's comedic roots. I mean, she was one of the best parts of Vission. I mean the whole show was fantastic, but she really kind of stole the show and she kind of got to go off and you, you saw the, the, the other side of her, you know, as Agatha. So I think that getting to play with both the modern housewife life as well as seeing some of that past, and I think there's gonna be a little hint towards the future and or not a, a bigger part of the future, but I think we're gonna see Wanda come back and need Agatha for something.
Speaker 1 00:06:43 I'm kind of wondering, um, I know that like there haven't really been any strong rumors about it, but I'm still hoping that Agatha pops up in multiverse of Madness, even if it's just an end credit scene and like maybe Wanda like needs her help or like needs to be taught or something. So then House of Harkness could follow Agatha like maybe before that and after that and just like kind of hint at went on on like what went on between her and Wanda off screen. Um, and then we find out about that like the next time Wanda pops up, I wanna
Speaker 5 00:07:10 See Agatha interact with a bunch of different characters. I mean I wanna see with her, her with Wanda again, but I wanna see her with others as well. I was thinking, like, I've been thinking like about Eternals obviously because that just came out like they were around when she was like having the whole witch trials and everything and she's been around a long time and they've been around even longer. Like I wonder if she ever interacted with an eternal sometime and like what that was like. Did they, well, I mean obviously they didn't fight, but like did they know, did they, were they taking notes of her powers? Like what was going on?
Speaker 2 00:07:35 That could definitely be interesting and I, I think that, you know, as we're moving forward in the, the timeline, I mean we're, I think Shung Chi was in 2024, correct me if I'm wrong, but as we're moving forward we really have this huge gap now of, of life in the M C U that hasn't been explored yet. Getting to see a lot of those years prior to like, you know, Steve Rogers in, in the first Captain America and getting to explore some of that, that's like untapped territory for, for the M C U it would be bring a whole new world.
Speaker 4 00:08:03 I was curious for, for all three of you guys, um, of all the new animated shows, all the ones they surprise announced, um, which one are you looking forward to the most?
Speaker 5 00:08:11 Spider-Man freshman
Speaker 1 00:08:13 Year. Yeah, I agree. I'm definitely looking forward to Spider-Man 'cause I don't really care about the old animated X-Men shows and I absolutely hate Zombies with a Passion. So Marvel Zombies is gonna be the first Marvel project or M C U project that I'm gonna have to like force myself to watch Brian,
Speaker 2 00:08:29 I I do have to agree that I think Spider-Man freshman year is probably going to be the most interesting. I also think it's very, I'm very curious as to how this is all gonna play out with, with uh, spider-Man. No way. Homecoming out and how Sony and Marble are continued to have their deal. 'cause this definitely sounds like a good sign. Um, but I'm also, I guess I'm worried with that aspect of are we going to box ourselves in that we're telling a story leading to a point that we know because we've already seen the first Spider-Man in this trilogy. I can't think of anyone. Sorry.
Speaker 4 00:08:59 Yeah, for me, I love Spider-Man, but I'm like, how many times have we seen the Spider-Man origin story? Like it'd be like if they announced a new Batman in year one series, I'm like, dude, we, we know, we know the story. It's great. We love the story, but we've seen it like how many Spider-Man shows have there already been like there's the animated series, there's another animated series, another another, there's like four or five Spider-Man animated series. Then there's the movie, another movie series and we're on our third movie series where they like kind of imply it like I I I feel like there's a reason they left out the origin stuff from the live action movies and, and the M C U 'cause everybody knows it for now. I'm, I'm curious to see how they make a difference, but I'm not necessarily excited yet. The
Speaker 5 00:09:41 Thing is, I think it's almost a lose lose because you have people who wanna see the original story again or whatever. They want that to tweet story, but I guess I think that they maybe don't realize and they don't realize it. And then if it's like that they'll complain it's just the same old, same old. But if it's not, they'll complain. They switch Spider-Man Up too much like they have sometimes is mc Spider-Man.
Speaker 4 00:09:59 Exactly. I I, I can already now like, uh, you know, some, some of those like YouTubers or or Twitter people like, you know, no matter what they're never happy with anything you do with Spider-Man 'cause either it's too close or it's not close enough and nobody ever has, nobody's ever satisfied in those certain communities.
Speaker 2 00:10:18 So Vin which one are you most excited for that?
Speaker 4 00:10:22 I think I, I guess I, I think the X-Men series when I was kid I was, I was either a little too young when the nineties show was coming out and, or at the time I mainly watched Kids wb so I watched a lot of Superman and Batman, but I didn't really watch the X-Men show. Then I watched X-Men Evolution when I was a bit older. Uh, but still not as much. So I, I kind of missed out on a lot of that. So I'm really excited now to get to go back and revisit it all. 'cause I think, I think it's really incredible what they accomplished in those shows. Like if you, if you read a little bit, they covered a lot of major storylines and, and you know, I trust they did it well. I, I like this 'cause it's motivating me to go back and rewatch some of it. And then I have, uh, I have possibly a, some crazy theories what they might be doing with this new show. Uh, like I said, I I, I have it in my new article, but when I was looking at the roster they announced Xavier is missing. So I have some, some theories about why Xavier might not be on the team anymore.
Speaker 1 00:11:14 Interesting. I'm definitely looking forward to reading that. What were you guys' like, favorite announcement out of everything? Like, not even new stuff. Like what show were you just the most excited for? Um, from Marvel?
Speaker 2 00:11:24 So I will definitely say that out of all the shows, um, I'm really looking forward to, of course Hawkeye coming up in the spinoff Echo. But she Hawk seems to be like this super interesting concept of just like a half an hour legal drama be coming from Marvel Studios and getting to see a little bit, little clips of it and how it's gonna kind of play out. I'm super excited to see that one drop next year.
Speaker 4 00:11:46 Julia, do you wanna go next? Oh
Speaker 5 00:11:48 Well I've mentioned House of Park and I say that one and then also, um, since it was mentioned on the, on the video on the, on Disney plus exclusive video, I guess I can say the second season of Low Key because it was there. So those two,
Speaker 4 00:12:02 Julie, I remember your, your low key like review after it came out. That thing was a giant essay and I loved it so, so, so much. I'm so excited for you.
Speaker 5 00:12:13 Which one
Speaker 4 00:12:14 So much. Um, I think, I think it was right after the show ended, it was this gigantic piece that you wrote. Oh God,
Speaker 5 00:12:22 I I so
Speaker 4 00:12:22 I think it was, I think it was the first thing you wrote for the site.
Speaker 5 00:12:25 Oh yeah, yeah. That I, that was cool, right? I gotta go revisit that. I wonder what I was thinking then versus now. It's been
Speaker 4 00:12:31 A few months. Yeah, I, I really, really loved it. So I'm really excited, uh, to see you do like an another piece for season two or even just, oh yeah, I'm even just like a retrospective of, you know, like a year later. How have your thoughts changed? What whatever everything you write about Loki, I'm so excited for it.
Speaker 5 00:12:49 Aw, thank you so much.
Speaker 4 00:12:51 Um, for me, I think I'm super excited for Miss Marvel 'cause I'm really excited, uh, to see that Muslim American representation. Uh, I love Miss Marvel from the comics. I, I hope they're doing really, I hope they do the, you know, the character justice. So I'm really looking forward to that. Um, moon Night looked really good. Um, I was really excited for She Hulk until I saw the new logo. I do not like that new logo. I think it looks so boring, but I, I'm hoping the show is still good. Hawkeye looks good. I, I, I don't know, I think all the live action shows have been really good. Uh, but I didn't like Falcon so much, but every, otherwise you know, everything just give it to me. I'm so excited.
Speaker 5 00:13:31 She Hulk the logo looks like she her as in pronouns, like, you know, when people write their pronouns, a lot of people <laugh>. So maybe that's, yeah, that's why the logo feels a little off to me. I did like the other one better.
Speaker 4 00:13:41 Imagine her Twitter bio pronouns. She Hulk
Speaker 1 00:13:45 Also people have pointed out that the She Hulk logo, 'cause people have been like saying, oh, it looks cw it looks a, B, C and people have pointed out like, that's on purpose. 'cause it's supposed to be, you know, like a legal dramedy. And so like, it's supposed to look like one of those procedural logos, like N C I Ss or like Grey's Anatomy and I'm like, okay, Marvel, like I get what you were going for there, but I miss the old logo.
Speaker 4 00:14:07 Yeah, yeah. I, I get, I get the homage, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
Speaker 2 00:14:12 I don't know. I feel like it has, you know, as soon as I saw it I thought this is law and order looking, you know, like, so a hundred percent I think that like this is, it's a cool callback to its predecessors that's brought it here, you know, I think that it's going to reflect the show pretty well.
Speaker 1 00:14:31 Yeah, I agree. Um, I really liked, I loved the She-Hulk teaser. I I really liked the Moon Night teaser. I don't know, like, I obviously know that Moon Night would be a darker corner of like the M C U, but I still thought that the teaser looked like darker than I was expecting and more violent. Um, which really excites me. Like it seems a lot more like Marvel Netflix show level, like grittiness than Disney Plus has gone into. And then I liked the teaser for Miss Marvel too, but I, I do agree, like in terms of what Julia said earlier about Marvel just showing us the same exact thing at every single one of these presentations. Like I think it's absolutely ridiculous that we didn't even get release windows for Moon night and she Hulk, I know that Covid can still impact release dates, but the fact that we didn't even hear like, oh she Hulk will come between like January and March is just like kind of dumb to me.
Speaker 6 00:15:22 I was expecting that I was very disappointed and that's where my, that was my only expectation for this release Windows for those things. And then, nope,
Speaker 2 00:15:29 I was very upset about that. 'cause you know, at first I was like very excited. We're getting all these different, you know, looks different logos. Um, but coming soon across the bottom of every single one, uh, was just, it was kind of annoying of like, okay, what, what does coming soon mean? Is that this year? Is it next year? Is it the next, within the next three years, then I tried to like look at like how they were showing logos and the logos that they announced were different than the ones that showed up on the, the, the presentation on Disney Plus. So I was like, there was no real order and I was like, I have no idea when these are coming out. And that was kind of a bummer as a big fan, you know, last year's, um, investor's Day in December really showcased, you know, you at least got some windows and you've got some specific dates for things and I that that definitely left me wanting more.
Speaker 4 00:16:17 Yeah, I feel like when they initially introduced something, you know, it, it's fine to just say coming soon, but then when it's the second time, it's the second announcement, give us some second information. I, I was, I was disappointed about that. I to what, uh, I think Uday was saying, I, I liked how Moon Night it reminded me of Daredevil, it also reminded me of the Batman. So it's kind of like you have the Daredevil, you have Daredevil, then the Batman, then Moon Night, almost like this trilogy of like angsty, gritty, uh, like superhero boys. Uh, I I think they'll play really nicely together.
Speaker 1 00:16:53 Yeah. And um, like onto your topic about this being like the second announcement we heard that she, Hulk was coming soon in August of 2019 and now over two years later, like still just having it coming soon. That's really frustrating me. And it's like all of these projects, Marvel keeps announcing stuff and that's great and it's great that they're making so much content but they just keep like dumping it on us with logos and like no information and like we don't even know what's part of phase four, what's part of phase five. We don't know where anything begins and ends. And that is starting to really irritate me because like, I just don't know what to expect. And then even in terms of your right, like the orders of the logos, like I would expect those to be like the chronological order that like the shows would release in. So like you show Moon Night before she Hulk, so I'm expecting that Moon Night is gonna come out first, but then like they showed House of Harkness before Armor Wars and there's no way that that show is like further along in development than Armor Wars. So I just, I feel like there's too much stuff and not enough information going around.
Speaker 2 00:17:58 And as well with this, you know, one of the other things that disappointed me was, you know, we did get, you know, free animated shows, but the only one that was really confirmed that was new was for the Live Action Elise was Echo. And I was expecting, you know, uh, you know, with Rumors swirling of Werewolf by night and you know, and some of the other, you know, <inaudible> show. I thought there was gonna be something more and the only one that we really got was Echo. And I just felt like, okay, this was the day that you've been advertising for months that you're building up to. I was just left a little disappointed.
Speaker 4 00:18:33 A hundred percent. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:18:34 I guess so let me ask if you, what, what would you have liked to have like been announced today? You know, either something that we already kinda know was in the works or something that would just come straight from left field.
Speaker 1 00:18:49 I think an internal spinoff should have been announced
Speaker 5 00:18:52 Release dates for as much as possible. Or maybe that was as much as possible, we should have at least gotten windows from Moon Night. But ideally more than that
Speaker 4 00:19:02 I agree, some kind of even general release windows like coming early 2022, late 2022. Just give us an idea of when to, but I guess with, with like Miss Marvel being delayed from al almost like three fourths of a year from late 2021 to summer, I, I guess after that and even Lokey delayed by a month after that, I guess they're like, okay, we won't commit to anything until we have to. But I don't like that. I want, I want to look forward to something on a general window and I want to get an idea of at least, uh, what is the order of things? How did things connect so we can at least speculate. Like we can say, okay, moon Night comes and then Blade comes and then Midnight Suns like just give me some kind of order, general order so I can speculate ideas at minimum, you know, otherwise if it's just coming soon, we can't do anything.
Speaker 5 00:19:56 Miss Marvel summer. Yeah, I def 22 was like a fine thing for them to say they should have put like the season or the year at least for some of these things.
Speaker 1 00:20:05 Although, yeah, it was kind of
Speaker 5 00:20:06 Insulting, obvious. I dunno,
Speaker 1 00:20:09 I I definitely agree because we're not getting a Marvel movie till next May, which is like, I, I understand why everything was delayed. Like obviously people should have, you know, the time to make those movies the best that they can possibly be. But then the way that they wouldn't even commit to seasons for Moon Night and she Hulk, um, really makes me worry that we're not gonna get any Marvel content until like March or April, 2022. And then I feel like it'll be like 2021, which it's, it's obviously no one's fault because, you know, COVID happened but in 2021, like so much Marvel stuff was like shoved into the second half of the year that it's kind of like crazy. And I thought 2022 would be more spread out and I was liking the thought of that better.
Speaker 5 00:20:50 We got four movies in the second half of the year and a bunch of overlap because movies overlapped with like multiple shows and like, it was just like we didn't have time to digest a lot of things. And I think a lot of things got pushed kind of, um, or like kind of overshadowed I guess by other things.
Speaker 4 00:21:07 I was gonna say, it's, it's actually interesting because if you look at like Hollywood in general, 'cause of the pandemic, everything moved to this fall, this winter, but then Marvel themselves, they're such a machine, all their stuff moves and it's, it's hard to just keep up with the Marvel stuff, let alone the rest of Hollywood. 'cause everything got condensed into Q three, Q four or whatever, you know, this, this fall and winter. I, I it is just, it's a lot of content. Not even just Marvel, just everything. There's a new movie every week that I want to see. I can't see all of them.
Speaker 1 00:21:38 Yeah, I definitely agree. And on that topic, um, do you guys think we're done with Disney plus Day? Can we move on to talking about Eternals?
Speaker 5 00:21:46 I'm done with Disney Plus Day. I think
Speaker 4 00:21:48 I have one last point. I forgot to say Moon Night. I love how stylized it is. Like all the, the moonshots. I'm just really happy with it. I think it looks great. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:21:57 I think so too. Like that one shot of him jumping across the moon, that was just perfect. So moving on to Eternals then, what did everyone think of the 26th M C U movie?
Speaker 2 00:22:09 I actually really enjoyed it. Um, I was kind of worried going into the, the theater after reading some of the reviews. I try not to look too much into the reviews because um, everybody has their own opinion that obviously, but I was pleasantly surprised and I do have to say that I was also highly anticipating this one. Um, Eternals have been one of my favorite, um, comic series up until this point. So to see them kind of on screen I was really looking forward to. Um, but I thought it was really good.
Speaker 5 00:22:41 Yeah, I really liked it too. I really liked the new characters and I like getting to see them interact. And one thing I liked about this movie is because it was so long and it just allowed you to kind of sit with your emotions and stuff and really feel the characters emotions more than some of the other Marvel ones where it's like, okay, this is happening now I gotta get to more jokes. And I mean, there were jokes and it was fine, but like, it was just, there was more time to digest things I think in this one. And for a movie like this with like so many themes and like so many characters to get to know, I think that was really important. So I thought they did well with that.
Speaker 2 00:23:12 Absolutely. I agree with you 10 characters we were introduced to over the course of this film, I guess time Eternals, but you really kind of got to know each one and their personality and how they interacted with each other. And I think that was important. I think that, that you almost needed a, a film this long to really be able to digest some of that and, and get to feel who the characters are so that you're invested going forward.
Speaker 4 00:23:42 I I thought it was just so fascinating. Like there's, there's so much in the movie to think about, um, but I, I feel like the movie isn't necessarily like, it's not super exciting, it's not super funny. Um, there's action, but it's not like if you're going for a Marvel movie, I feel like it pales a lot compared to other Marvel movies. But if you're going for a movie movie, then I think it's super interesting to think about. But I think if you compare it to other Marvel movies it'll, I I think it'll kind of stick out like a sore thumb because if you're, if imagine if you're doing a whole like M C U marathon and you're laughing, you're having a great time and then you get to Eternals and they're like, it makes you think and it makes you like slow down and analyze your feelings, analyze religion, analyze family.
Speaker 4 00:24:34 I don't know, I, I think it's super interesting as a standalone movie. I think it's super interesting to think about and I feel like when the more we rewatch it, the more we can understand it. But I also feel like it doesn't have a lot of it, it doesn't give me a lot of motivation to rewatch it. 'cause I, I, I liked it but I didn't like it that much where I want to keep coming back to it. So like, I don't know, I guess it's like a philosophy book or something where like it's full of great ideas but there's other books I'd be rather be reading instead, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 00:25:08 Yeah. So actually on that, on that point, I liked Eternals. I do agree that it sticks out like a sore thumb from the rest of the M C U, but I don't think that's a bad thing. Like I like how much it sticks out, but then at the same time I am kind of disappointed that it doesn't, you know, integrate more easily. But on the rewatch topic, I walked out of the theater and I was like, that definitely wasn't a bad movie. I just thought that it was a little bit disappointing 'cause there were parts that I really loved but then there were parts that I just didn't care about it all. Like I didn't feel anything for like most of these characters until the third act because I just like, like when they threw us into Present Day London and like Icarus dramatically emerges from the shadows and seriously is like, oh my God, it's my boyfriend that I haven't seen in 500 years.
Speaker 1 00:25:51 Like, I didn't care because I haven't seen you guys be in love. I know nothing about you. So I was thinking as I walked out of the theater, like I see every Marvel movie in theaters usually at least three times. And so I was like, I don't want to watch this three times in theaters because I'm not going to care. I feel like I'll fall asleep during like the middle. And then I re-watched it that weekend and surprisingly I liked it a lot better the second time around because this time I knew about the character's past and I actually cared about them. And so it was a lot more interesting the present day scenes for me when I re-watched it.
Speaker 5 00:26:27 I have to wonder if maybe they should have focused more on the past and then showed them like a mono to them kind of getting back together at the end. Although I know the point of some of it is to show how much they've changed in the present. So I'm not sure. But yeah, I would just have to say like when I was watching, I forgot it was M C U a lot of the time until they kind of reminded me and I don't know 'cause it's like I liked it as a movie but like as part of the M C U it's like I headache to try and explain everything and how it fits in, um, which is the drawback of the M C U. And I guess that's why some people have a problem with the connected universe thing. I think they could explain it and if, I mean some of them I'm sure will show up against so they'll do that. But yeah, it's like I can't even begin to really explain how it works.
Speaker 1 00:27:06 Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Um, I feel like in trying to connect it, like I, I feel like Eternals um, to me eternals kinda have the problem that some recent d CEU movies have where it wants to be part of the franchise but it doesn't want to put in like the basic work to connect to it. That was an issue I had with Birds of Prey where I felt like there were so many little missed opportunities to just make it like more cohesive with the rest of the franchise without losing any of like the special parts of the movie. And so for Eternals, I'm like, how are you, oh, and by the way there I, I forgot to mention there will be spoilers ahead. So this is everyone's spoiler warning for everyone listening 'cause I'm about to drop a big spoiler. But like, how are you going to say that the brother of Thanos is an eternal, when you've established that Eternals are like synthetic robots built by the celestials. Like are you trying to tell us that Thanos has been a robot this whole time? 'cause that just
Speaker 5 00:27:59 When I'm gonna be adopted, I'm wondering if that's gonna
Speaker 1 00:28:01 Be it. I'm, I'm wondering that too. And then it's kind of just like Thor and Loki again. Like I, I don't know. I feel like it's just, well it's, it's kind
Speaker 5 00:28:08 Like Loki the show again in some ways and also <inaudible> in some ways. So like, there's gonna be some I think at this point,
Speaker 4 00:28:15 Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:28:15 I felt like it was kind of just like confusing because I, like, I know Thanos is an eternal in the comics and they could change that for the M C U like easily. Um, but I'm just thinking like right now I'm assuming that he's an eternal because his brother is, and if he is an eternal then RMM should have killed him the second that man started trying to assemble the Infinity stones because he like royally screwed up EM'S design.
Speaker 4 00:28:38 Yeah, I was curious, uh, with the logic, uh, established in this movie, why wouldn't the Eternals intervene and stop Thanos? Because Thanos is is destroying the plan across the whole universe. Every populations being reduced by half. That's a huge setback. So why wouldn't the Eternals be instructed to stop him? I I think there's much more interesting questions from the movie, but this is like a, a plot nitpick that I I felt never got resolved.
Speaker 2 00:29:08 You know, part of this movie though was it felt like a complete setup for the next one. And not that I wanna say that like that's all it's leading to, but they're, they were introducing all these different threads that are specifically for another TV show, another movie. Um, but going back to what Uday said, I don't know if, I don't mind that it wasn't connected to the why they're M C U because it kind of felt like a, like a, like a pallet cleanser kind of like sh sheet. Like it wasn't connected even though it was still in the world. Like yeah, Shachi had a little more of those connections, um, with Wong and stuff like that, but it, it didn't needed to be connected because it was telling a story that didn't involve anything else. But it was still, still in that world. And I still felt the world that was there and I I was okay with that.
Speaker 1 00:29:56 Yeah, I'm okay with it. I'm okay with it standing alone. I definitely think that it is a good palate cleanser. I just wish that then you wouldn't have these references. Like, 'cause if you want to be standalone, then be standalone. But then when you have like references that open up plot holes in like the interconnected universe, like that's just like, like Vince said, like that's just a nitpick. It's, there's definitely so much more interesting things like going on with this movie, but it just like personally irritated me a little bit.
Speaker 5 00:30:23 I think the thing with the not feeling connected thing is, um, and I feel like a lot of people are saying that about phase four's movies in general. Um, I think that's just the nature of the order. And even without Covid, it's weird because this was kind of, it was said to be a bunch of movies that were like standalone, like Black Widows kind of like, it's not getting a sequel with Nat. So it's like that and then it's like Eternals was gonna be next, then Shaxi, and then obviously those two were flipped. But it's a case of a lot of like first movies in a potential series or standalone movies. And so it's just kind of feeling like their own thing right now. Like the, like, um, pretty much all the solo movies, except for like, unless they were careful who already introduced in another movie.
Speaker 5 00:30:59 The, the solo movies have always felt very separate. Like guardians felt separate at first. Antman felt separate at first. So that's kind of why it's feeling like now. But then they'll tie in when they need to. Um, and then it's just weird because like right, I just know or not I just noticed, but I've been thinking about how um, the movies this year are kind of like on their own except for Spider-Man. And the shows are very much connected to what we've already seen. And then next year it flips like the next seven, so the next year and the year after it's like sequel, sequel, sequel on the movie side. And then there's a bunch of the shows are gonna be left to introduce characters now. So I'm sure we'll be hearing that about the shows next. So it's like, it's just an interesting thing. I think it's the nature of the order that's kind of fueling these perceptions
Speaker 4 00:31:39 About That's such a good observation. I never thought about that. That's so good.
Speaker 1 00:31:44 Yeah, and yeah, I definitely agree. 'cause you're right, I didn't think about that either. Like I knew that a lot more origin stories were happening on Disney Plus, but I didn't really pair that with like knowing that all of like the upcoming movies are sequels. But for me, so I wrote a whole article about Eternals, about how I think you could fix the movie, like, for lack of a better term. Not that it like needs to be fixed, but I just think you could've done some things better that would've made it flow better and just been a stronger introduction for the characters. And part of that is I feel like Marvel is just too afraid to do an origin movie anymore. Like I know that we had Chong Chi and that was great, but think like Captain Marvel, black Panther, even Spider-Man, it's all like, they're already those heroes and either their past isn't addressed or then Captain Marvel had what I thought was that dumb wrinkle of her having amnesia and then having to rediscover who she was. And I really just wish Eternals had been linear. I wish that if they, if Marvel wasn't going to do a whole origin movie for them, the entire first act should have been set in the past because throwing us into the present with people that have like 7,000 year old relationships like that just didn't work for me.
Speaker 4 00:32:53 Something really interesting, I mentioned this, uh, in our, in our internal Slack earlier, um, the, the writers did a podcast a couple days ago. Uh, no, sorry, it was the editors, this was a, um, an interview with the editors and they were from, from what I gathered from the podcast, they were basically saying the flashbacks were internal, they were integral, they were like part of the script from the very first draft. Like, and that wasn't something that could change. I don't know why they couldn't change it, but from the fact that they even brought it up, I assume it was discussed and somebody said no. So I really wonder why, because I've heard multiple people say it. And I believe too that I, the movie could have been different maybe in a better way if it was linear and if you saw them, if you traveled through 7,000 years of memories, of relationships, of breakups with these people, you traveled 7,000 years with them, then you arrive in the present day, then I think things might have more weight to it. And you might, you might connect more emotionally to them when you actually, you know, their whole history when the movie starts or like the the modern day movie starts.
Speaker 2 00:34:07 You know, I think you're, you are right about that. As much as I enjoyed the movie, I tend to have very emotional reactions to movies and, you know, when we saw, you know, Ajax laying there, I didn't feel anything. I didn't feel like crying. I didn't feel, I didn't, I I felt like sad for the characters, but like I had no connection to her as a maternal or as how she was in this family to feel the impact of what that was. And I will say later on when we lose Gilgamesh, that that felt a little more powerful because we had a little more time with it. I agree with what you're saying there.
Speaker 1 00:34:43 Yeah. And I, I just, I feel like a lot of the present day scenes, it just kind of felt like the characters were going through the motions because we didn't know them. I was really looking forward to Searcy and Icarus romance. Um, but like from their very first meeting, like I get that Icarus was supposed to be like this person that like, kind of bottled up his emotions and didn't want to like get close to humanity the same way as them, but I feel like he didn't care about his fellow Eternals at all either. The third act definitely, like the emotion was definitely good there, but it's just like from his very first interaction with CEI to them getting together in Babylon, like I don't understand why they became a couple. It's like he walked up to her in Babylon and he was like, you're beautiful. And then they like got together and I'm like, yes, where's the romance? Like this is just two hot people deciding to be in a couple because they look good together. And so I did, I did think it was emotional when he decided not to kill her in the finale and there, and like the score really helped with that. Like, it was great. I got swept up in it, but I'm also like, this isn't earned because I don't believe in the relationship whatsoever. I don't believe that that man is capable of loving her.
Speaker 4 00:35:53 Stepping back for a bit, I thought I, I just thought the, just the basic concept of having a huge blockbuster Disney Marvel superhero movie that's essentially about, uh, these, these people on a, um, on a mission from God deciding to turn on God. And then you have one of the, one of the guys who's like, no, we should, we should stick to God's plan and everyone else is like, no we shouldn't. And then they fight about that. I thought that was really interesting. And then, and then positioning the s Scott figure as like, maybe, maybe he's kind of an evil guy and then you have Kingo who's like, you know, I agree that we should follow this God figure, but I don't want to fight with you guys about it, so I'm just gonna leave. And I thought it was interesting how they had all these points of view about debating whether or not this God figure is a good guy, whether we should go forward with this plan, whether we should defy and betray our God.
Speaker 4 00:36:47 Um, I I I just thought the audacity to do that was so fantastic. Um, I was reading out of curiosity, I was reading a review earlier today from like, um, like a, like a parent's guide and the whole review was talking about how dangerous this movie is and how evil it is. And I, I I, I don't know, I I see their point of view 'cause like I grew up in, in Texas, so I, I know what those people are like, but at the same time I think it's just so interesting that Disney said, yeah, let's go forward with this movie about taking down some kind of God figure. So I I appreciate that. Another really interesting thing I just read today, they were comparing, they were comparing like the worlds to like incubators and the celestials being born to like, you know, babies being born from an incubator.
Speaker 4 00:37:38 And then if you compare the incubator to like a mother and the celestial to a baby coming out of the mother, um, basically when the Eternals stop tmm up from being born, it's like causing an abortion to preserve the life of the mother because if that baby is born, it will kill the mother. So that's another very kind of hot topic that they touched in this movie that's, that's made from massive global audiences and they made like a very strong stance on that. And I thought, I, I just think that's really, really interesting that they did that. And I appreciate the audacity to do it, even if I don't necessarily like everything about the movie. I just appreciate the ideas that are in it and all the levels and the depth and the interpretation that you can get from it.
Speaker 1 00:38:28 Yeah, for me, Eternals just gets better the more I think about it. I, I think that it could have been executed better. I do think it kind of buckles under the weight of its ideas and it didn't necessarily need to, again, like if certain things had been more linear. But when I walked out of that movie from like my Thursday night screening, I gave it like a six out of 10 and I had it like in the lower third of my M C U ranking. And then when I saw it again literally two days later, I was like, wait. And then I like moved it up six spots on my ranking and I was like, I actually like it so much more. So I really think that it's a movie that's gonna have to grow on some people, which we just don't expect from the M C U.
Speaker 6 00:39:10 Yeah, I was like that too, kind of like I knew I liked it and, but at first I'm like, okay, I think I like it maybe like fifth to phase four above Black Widow and what if, and now I'm like, I think I might like it more than Shaxi and I and Falcon and maybe it's like Pop R Face four so far for me, I don't know, I have to watch Shaxi again, which is great because I can do that because now it's on Disney Plus, so I can watch it there and then I'll decide for sure. But yeah, I'm leaning towards Eternal being my favorite phase for movie right now. And I've just as, and it's again, 'cause like similar reasons to, I've just been thinking about it in a positive way, so much more than I did after I watched like Chong Chi after Chong Ch I'm like, Hey, that was a good movie. And then Eternals, I'm just thinking about it more and I really, really love like a lot of the characters and it's just great. I really like it.
Speaker 1 00:39:54 That is a great segue into the next thing I wanted to ask, which was, who was everyone's favorite character? Or if you're like me, um, your top three, if you can't pick just one.
Speaker 2 00:40:04 You know, that's a really hard question to answer Before going into theaters, I was definitely looking forward to Kingo the most. I was so excited to see, to see, you know, one of my favorite characters on screen. But after leaving the theater the second time, I have to say I think my top one is Macari. I think that the acting and the, just like seeing speedster powers from like a different, like a different way. 'cause it didn't feel like Quicksilver, it didn't feel like we were watching The Flash. It felt very different, like almost bigger or more powerful. So definitely a macari. And then Gilgamesh really left a powerful impression, you know, the, you know, as a psychologist looking at these, these creatures, these these people who aren't human but like have these human traits and how he really fell in love with Thena and it wasn't just, you know, lost.
Speaker 2 00:41:03 It was like this deep connection of as a I wanna, I wanna protect you and I don't want you to have to give up everything that makes you who you are and I'll sacrifice whatever to do that. And that, that was really something that took me by surprise. Um, so much so that actually came home and had to buy his Pop Doll right away because I was like, wow, this character left such an impression on me that I couldn't not want to see him again. And, you know, that's why I think his death was so maybe more powerful for me.
Speaker 6 00:41:32 Yeah, I I also really liked Macari and Yoga Mesh. They might be in my top three. Well, Macari definitely is, I think Yoga Mesh is, I don't know, but, um, my favorite is patos. Um, I just, I really liked his story about how he was like, of course, I mean his presence, um, raised a lot of questions about like, who's the smartest in the M C U now and who gets credit for inventing things like Sherry and Tony Stark and whatever, because he gave them the ability to do so allegedly according to this movie. Um, but I think his story of like losing faith in humanity with like, realizing like what he was doing and like, was he doing the right thing by helping him and then meeting someone who completely restore his faith in humanity and then having like a family and stuff. I think that was really cool.
Speaker 6 00:42:14 And I just like the way, like, I just like the way he was dedicated to his family as his family and then his family as the eternals as well. And then they all got to get together at the end and spend some time together. That was really nice. I I, he's just very likable. I really, I wanna see more of him and I wanna see him interact with some of the other characters. I wanna see him interact with some of the people who like, invent things in the M C U and then realize he's giving them the power to do so. 'cause I think that it'd just be really interesting to see how that would go.
Speaker 4 00:42:40 Yeah, I I I love that. I, I'm really excited to see like the next Avengers movie and like Face Doses is making, uh, like weapons for all the Avengers and like all the Avengers are, they have their like normal, you know, stuff. But then also they have like these crazy eternal weapons too. I think that'll be super cool whatever they do with them. So I, I like really like face doses. I also liked Macari from the writer podcast. They were talking about the decision to make her death was because, um, she's a speedster and when you're a speedster you're always going through sonic booms. So Wouldn, didn't it make sense? Like how, how do you deal with Sonic booms as a speedster? Well, if you're deaf you never have to worry about it. So I, I wish I,
Speaker 6 00:43:22 In the movie, I wish they'd confirmed that movie because I saw that theory a lot and it's nice to have it confirmed, but I'm like, put that in the movie just real fast. Sorry. Yeah,
Speaker 4 00:43:30 I agree. Um, and um, the other day, uh, I was thinking about Kingo and his decision, um, to step away and a lot of people have been like joking about that or criticizing it. I imagine for him it was emotional. So I would've liked some cutaway scene when everyone's fighting at the end of like, the volcano. I would've liked if they cut away and you see a kingo watching and he's like crying a little bit 'cause his friends are, uh, trying to kill themselves over, like over this, this belief system. And he, he's kind of on both sides of it. So I would've liked just one cutaway to see him like crying to see the weight of his decision and how difficult it was for him. And then I think it wouldn't be such a joke when you understand it was difficult for him. I really wanted to like kin go.
Speaker 4 00:44:18 'cause like, uh, I'm Indian American and I was like, this is so cool. We're getting like a Bollywood number. But then the song was in English and I, I thought, oh my God, dancing wasn't very good. And I was like, what the hell is this? Like, sh Chong Chi, they did so good with the Chinese American representation and Chinese culture. And I was like, yeah, that's fantastic. They're gonna give us a little bit of that with Kingo and Indian culture. And then they gave us a little bit of Hindi, but then they, they completely just dropped the ball with an English song. And I think they're in Mumbai, right? So what are they doing in Mumbai with a terrible English song? And then that the dance choreography was not great. Camille, non Gianni, I have so much love and respect, but his, his dancing was not there either. And it, it wasn't what I wanted, man. No,
Speaker 1 00:45:05 I fully agree. Yeah, I'm, I'm also Indian American. I was also excited to see, you know, like our first dei superhero, um, the song being in English that annoyed me. I know that there are, there are some Bollywood songs with like, uh, sorry, some Bollywood movies with English songs like Doom Two is like one of my favorite Bollywood movies. And the main song for that movie is like, mostly in English, but it wasn't a good song. And I didn't understand why he wasn't singing like he was dancing, like he was singing, but he wasn't actually singing. So it kind of felt like someone just put the movie like on mute. Like it was just super awkward. It had no energy. It, it was, it was so weird. Like, I was like, I would've preferred if they just hadn't done that
Speaker 4 00:45:47 Before. I saw the movie, I asked my friends who'd seen it, I asked them about that scene and they said they didn't remember the context, but Kingo was a sellout. So I imagined in my head, what if Kingo came to America and he's trying to like create a Bollywood style movie in Hollywood and that would explain the crappy quality. So I, I was holding onto that, but nope, nope. It's, it's in Bollywood and it's just a bad, bad, bad, bad Bollywood musical.
Speaker 6 00:46:15 But it should have been like him trying to recreate it in an American context or whatever. 'cause that would've made more sense.
Speaker 1 00:46:21 Yeah, but
Speaker 4 00:46:23 A CW Bollywood show, gimme that
Speaker 1 00:46:26 <laugh>. No, because the 'cause CW Legend of Toma Legends of Tomorrow, like they did a Bollywood dance number. I thought it had more energy than the one in Eternals. Um, Eternals had higher production quality, uh, and like better outfits I think. But the energy just wasn't there for me. Like my favorite characters. I definitely loved Macari, as did everyone else. I liked Drew IG a lot and him and Macari I think were easily like the best pairing in that movie. Like, I loved them together. But I, I do think my favorite character is csi. I feel like a lot of people have been very, very mean to her and I just don't understand it 'cause she is a much more passive superhero protagonist than we're used to. But I don't think that's a bad thing. It's nice to get something different. And I really liked her character arc. She could have used her powers a little bit more. Um, I love Gemma Chan though, so I don't know. I just, I feel like people haven't been giving her the best of, you know, I, I feel like people have been rude to her in a way that she doesn't deserve.
Speaker 4 00:47:24 What did you like really strongly like about her?
Speaker 1 00:47:27 Personally? I really liked her just having to step up and like, be the leader. It really annoyed me that, well, first of all, it annoyed me that everyone was saying that Ajax chose Cece. 'cause I did not interpret it that way. I interpreted it as, there's three people leaning over your dead body. One of them is your murderer, one of them is a child. So of course gonna get like the sphere. But I liked her having to step up. I liked that she had to kind of like, put her faith in herself and I really liked that she had to be the one to take over the uni mind at the end. And, you know, like just believe in herself and her power and that she can do, you know, like more than she ever knew. But I do think that it would be better if she had used her powers a little bit more in the movie. 'cause I feel like you could have done something more interesting with that earlier on.
Speaker 4 00:48:13 But Sprite isn't a child. Sprite is as old as the rest of them. So Sprite could have been the leader, right?
Speaker 1 00:48:18 Yeah, I know, but she's still a child to me. No, I'm kidding. Um, she is an eternal, but I, I just, I feel like between the three of them, there was no contest. Like even before we knew that Icarus like killed Aja, which like, I knew going in, but I just feel like, why wouldn't you choose, you know, the one that's like calm and collected versus like the one that doesn't care about the people that you're supposed to protect and the one that kind of just hates everything around her. 'cause Sprite was very like angsty and sarcastic.
Speaker 4 00:48:50 Yeah. I think something else really cool about Cy is it, it's, it's, it's a, it's a new better kind of leadership. Because when you think like traditional movie leader, you would look at like Icarus, you look at like Superman, like the strong masculine, strong punch guy. But Ccy as a leader, she's like, calm, collected. She's a thinker. She's a healer. She, she wants people to come together. So I, I, I can see your point of view on that. Did you guys see in the slack we were talking about, uh, Sprite's gender? Did you guys see that conversation?
Speaker 1 00:49:24 Yeah, I saw that.
Speaker 4 00:49:26 I didn't see that. So, so the, the summary was that we were talking about the writer's decision to make her a girl versus the boy and the, and the comics. But I felt that like, the way she presents herself, like with her hair and with her, her role in the, in the story, I felt she didn't need to be a girl. And I think if they never really addressed her with pronouns, she could have actually been non-binary. And I actually would've loved that a, a non-binary like superhero and what the turtles is, diversity. They never gave us that. So I feel that was a little bit of a missed opportunity just to have Sprite be a day instead of he or a she.
Speaker 7 00:50:05 Honestly, I think this movie, like, I agree that I think it would've been really good, but I think this movie went very far for some countries, like some countries are banning stuff from it already that they probably didn't wanna do it all in the same movie. I mean, they did a ton in the same movie, but like, they're just still testing the waters of gay stuff, unfortunately. Like, they still have, they're still in the early stages of that. So it's like, I don't know, like I'm not surprised they didn't do it, but I would've loved if they did. But yeah, I understand
Speaker 1 00:50:32 Why I
Speaker 7 00:50:32 Was,
Speaker 1 00:50:33 I was surprised 'cause that the writer said that they made Sprite into a girl to have the love story with Icarus. Because you're right, Julia, like Marvel is just dipping their toes into plus stories. But I feel like it still would've worked if Sprite was a boy and if, like, I think, I think the whole love angle could have worked. And I think that it could have been even better if they had done it delicately When she's talking to Kingo in Wigs compound and she asks him like, why did the Celestials make me like this? I think that that's a really interesting concept that's never touched on again. And, and so like, and just, I, I thought of Macari in that moment. Like, I thought that, yeah, I, I thought that she should have had that conversation with Macari because there have been some very insensitive comments about people. Like there was one absolutely disgusting review that was like, if the Celestials created the eternals to be perfect, then why is one of them like gay? And why is one of them deaf? Which is obviously a horrible comment, but like I saw
Speaker 7 00:51:32 Horrible comment someone made about saying, why'd they make the black man gay? He was already black or whatever. That wasn't a reviewer, but that was still horrible.
Speaker 1 00:51:40 Yeah. And so, and, and, but like, like as terrible as those comments are, like there are those thoughts out there. Like people are thinking that, and like Vin said, like they had that idea that if you're a speedster and you're deaf, that that actually helps you. And I know that Lauren Ridloff has talked about how being deaf is a superpower for her. She's like, I don't see myself as disabled. I think that, you know, like I have an advantage over people in like, some things, like, I remember in this interview she was talking about how if she's sitting on a plane and there's a mother with a screaming newborn baby, she's like, oh, come sit next to me 'cause I can just sleep through the plane ride. And like, then you don't need to be disturbing someone else. And so I feel like that whole idea of deafness as a superpower that could have very easily been brought into that moment with Sprite.
Speaker 1 00:52:25 Because Macari could have just said like, Macari could have brought that up. How her deafness works in tandem with her powers and how like maybe Sprite just doesn't realize why she's a child. Uh, oh, my, my God, I love that wish. Yeah, I wish that they had just touched on it a little bit more. 'cause I did like sprite's art quite a bit. Yeah. I I feel like people have been very also like, mean to Sprite and she's not my favorite eternal, but I understand why she did the things that she did. And that whole idea of being stuck as a child forever in like a world that, you know, isn't very like, you know, fair to children. Um, I just, I feel like you could have brought that idea up earlier. 'cause it makes sense why she would turn to Acars aside. She's in love with him and she wants to start fresh somewhere where she won't be.
Speaker 7 00:53:07 And she was acting pretty childish. But like, I mean, I'm gonna use myself as an example. I'm 25, but I look younger. And then sometimes I do tend to like fall into the childish ways because I feel like that's what's affected me and that's just my role or whatever. So I understood it from her as well. I saw people complain about that too, but so sometimes it was harder for me to see her as older, the same age as the other ones. But yeah.
Speaker 1 00:53:31 And I, I feel like there was just like, I, I literally feel like if you spent five more minutes on Sprite, you could get to something like absolutely fantastic with her. Because you think about how the Eternals have been on earth for 7,000 years. Sprite probably lived like her entire life up until like the 16 or 17 hundreds, like being seen as a god alongside the rest of the eternals. So now in the modern age when she's treated as lesser because she's a child and, and you know, like people don't worship the eternals the way they used to 'cause they faded out of the modern, you know, like world. I just feel like you could've touched on that.
Speaker 7 00:54:08 Okay guys, sorry, I have to go because I have to finish an article before I go out tonight with family, so I have to do that.
Speaker 1 00:54:15 No problem. Julie, I think Julie,
Speaker 4 00:54:16 It's great talking to you.
Speaker 7 00:54:17 Um, I'm heading out now, by the way guys, so I'm just, hi everybody listening, thank you for listening. I'm excited for the next one.
Speaker 1 00:54:23 Hi Julia.
Speaker 4 00:54:25 Something interesting. Um, I think, I think this was from Chloe Jao. Um, they were saying no, I think it was, it was actually from, uh, sprites actress, uh, herself. But she was saying Chloe Jao told her to think of Maggie Smith and to watch Maggie Smith videos or Maggie Smith movies so she could, so she could try to portray that kind of like really stern older lady despite being such a young, like actually a young child actress. Did you guys see anything like that in her portrayal? Could you see any kind of like stern Maggie Smith older lady?
Speaker 1 00:55:00 I mean, she was kind of grumpy, but I didn't really, I I didn't really get that. I thought that Leah McHugh did a very good job. But I do think that, I do think that at times, like Julia said, it did seem like Sprite was just a child. So I think at certain points you lose that feeling of this being an eternal being in a child's body.
Speaker 2 00:55:20 One thing that I really thought this movie actually needed was, I think it needed 30 more minutes because, or, or more like a series on Disney Plus. Because I think that what Uday said, it was correct that we needed more time with Sprite. You know, we needed more time with a few different characters to understand where they're at and what brought them here and what, you know, I think that being trapped in a child's body for 7,000 years definitely took its toll, especially in the last a hundred, 200 years. You know, that had to be really difficult to constantly be kind of trapped that way. As for the sternness, like the Maggie Smith, miss is, I saw a hint of that actually on the Jet with Kingo when Kingo said that he, he left her because he was tired of moving every four years. And you saw this look across her face that was like, it wasn't exactly hurt, but it was more like annoyed that, like, that was, that was the response
Speaker 4 00:56:14 That that was a great scene. I remember that.
Speaker 1 00:56:16 Yeah. I just like, yeah, Brian, to your point, I, I had like this little heated conversation with my, my friend last night about, um, Eternals as a Disney plus series. I think that it would be a horrible Disney plus show because I just think that the scale and the ideas here are way too big for a series, but at the same time, we needed more time. So I think that if you had it, it, it is too much to ask of people to watch like an origin movie for these characters and then watch a sequel. I think that that's just kind of ridiculous. And I really hate it when movies save their best ideas for the sequel. But like I said, I think if you made the movie a half hour longer, make it a three hour movie, and again, have like, at least the first act be linear.
Speaker 1 00:56:59 I, I, I do think like everyone should read the article that I wrote. 'cause I do think that I had good ideas, but I was like, you should have it linear up until the time that the Eternals depart for South America and then go to the present. And then that way you preserve the mystery of why they split up. But you know, and love the characters because you just spent 50 minutes seeing like their entire life. I really think that it needed to be just longer and better organized. I think there's nothing inherently wrong with the plot. I just think it wasn't executed as well as it could have been. That's
Speaker 4 00:57:28 Such a great idea. I love that. I I feel like it, it, you're right, I never thought about it, but as a three hour movie, a a big huge epic movie that really puts you on a whole experience and kind of makes you reevaluate your life and question everything like the best big long movies, I feel it could have accomplished that with 30 more minutes. I feel it was on the path. But when you truncate that to two and a half, I I feel it, you know, you can't accomplish that. Like, we're not talking about like a four hour Snyder cut, but three hours used really, really well. You can do a lot with that. And I think, I think Chloe Jao was on the path.
Speaker 1 00:58:09 I, so I did want to ask why you guys think Eternals has been received poorly by critics Personally, I think it's a combination of, it's nothing like a normal M C U movie and it's made by this Oscar winning director, like only the second woman to ever win, like a best director Oscar. And I feel like critics that, like Chloe Jao absolutely hate that she's tried to bring some of her own sensibilities to the movie because I do think Eternals has some issues, but there's no way it's the worst M c U movie. And so I am just shocked by like, by the reviews.
Speaker 2 00:58:44 Yeah, I totally was, when they started rolling out, I thought for sure, I was like, okay, this movie's gonna be 90% of Rotten Tomatoes, you know, and when it started to roll out and it wasn't, and I was like, what's going wrong with this? And so to your point, you know, I went and saw it yesterday with a friend with, we Ended the movie and my friend that was like, this wasn't a Marvel movie, it was a great movie, but it wasn't a Marvel movie. And I was like, so what makes it, what makes a movie Marvel? And he goes, I don't know, but it wasn't that. And so I find that very interesting that like, they created something so specific to their brand and then when they tried to expand upon that, people didn't like it. Which I feel like is a complaint that a lot of people have is that, oh, you know, you're doing the same thing every time.
Speaker 2 00:59:26 It's the same movie, it's the same thoughts. It's, and, and they really tried to expand and try something different. Um, and it wasn't received well. I also think that part of the reason it wasn't received too well is that it shrink changed a lot. You know, we saw a lot of different makeups of people as the team, which for me that's very exciting. But you do have subsets of the, of the nerd population that definitely took some issue with that. And so I think that was part of it too. And I think that you're right, Chloe Zow tried so many different things and it was beautiful. And it was the, the lighting and the, the, the, the locations that she picked were so epic. But it, I guess it was a marvel in a,
Speaker 4 01:00:12 I guess I would define a Marvel movie, like as, as your friend was probably trying to say, it is probably like a crowd pleasing action comedy where like, you're gonna go, it's gonna be dramatic, but there's like boom, boom, bang, bang, laugh, laugh, and then at the end, like, it's all good, everyone's happy. Maybe there's something a little dramatic setting up a sequel. But like Eternals is, I I think probably other than I guess maybe end game, I, I think Eternals is probably the first Marvel movie that's really more like just a drama and it's more like, there, there's a little bit of mystery too, but it, it's not really like a crowd pleasing action comedy that that's just, uh, you know, fitted perfectly timed to the, the perfect laugh and everything. It's, I, I feel like it's the first Marvel movie that really tries to slow down a bit and just focus on feelings and questions and thoughts.
Speaker 4 01:01:09 And I feel it didn't do that as well as, you know, I did, I feel it didn't do it as well as other dramas have done. And I feel it didn't do the action comedy as well as other Marvel movies have done. So I feel it kind of falls into this middle ground where it's not, it's not a, a Marvel movie like you really want, and it's not the drama that you would've liked. Like if, if you go for like a drama movie, it's not the best drama movie you could've seen. I think. So I feel it falls in this middle ground of like, who was this made for? And I don't, I don't know, but I feel like the people who would like this the most are probably like late teenagers who really like superhero stuff, but they're looking for something that's a little less popcorn.
Speaker 4 01:01:52 They're looking for something like really moody, like the audience that maybe would've really liked Watchman when it came out. Maybe this could be the new movie for them that like, oh it's, it, it's a superhero movie, but it really, it's a bit mature about it and it makes you stop and think about things more. I guess maybe the, the audience that like really likes Zach Snyder, superhero movies, this can maybe be some new version of that for them where it, it's trying to be deeper and it, it's trying, it's not just about getting the good laughs and being cute and funny and pleasing to everyone, I guess. So maybe, maybe that's why it's a little controversial.
Speaker 1 01:02:29 Yeah, I, I definitely agree with that about it. It just, it kind of, I think maybe we tried to be like a few too many things at once, and I think we all agree a little bit more time to just really drive all those ideas that they touch on home. I, I think that that would've helped this movie a lot. But there's, but there's just no way eternals, it's the worst M c U movie. Like, um, and I really like, I feel like even if you don't like Eternals, you have to respect what it tried to do. Because even if it's not for you, I feel like Chloe Jao created a movie that's just, it's unlike anything we've ever seen in the M C U. It's completely different and it tries to do so much. And yes, even if it does kind of bend under the weight of that, I think it's still, it's still like a very good effort.
Speaker 2 01:03:11 Absolutely. Real quick, going back to something that we were talking about earlier, 'cause it just popped up on my feed when the actor Pero was, um, on, uh, the Tonight Show, and he was actually talking about the Bollywood scene and he said that, um, when it was first brought up to him, he shot it down and they said they were gonna do a Bollywood action sequence in the script instead. And it was printed in the script as an action sequence. And then when he arrived in London, it was actually set for a Bollywood dance and Z actually was like, Hey, sorry, I lied, we're doing a dance number. And he said that he was very, he wasn't, he wasn't trained as a dancer for it at all. So I think that kind of maybe adds to maybe the awkwardness of that scene.
Speaker 1 01:03:51 Yeah, maybe. But I, I still feel like that scene was flawed from the start because you have an English song and he's not singing and like they, he didn't need to sing. Someone could have dubbed over for him, but I feel like the problems from that scene were kind of baked in from the beginning.
Speaker 4 01:04:06 The costumes were good. I thought they were okay.
Speaker 1 01:04:09 They were, yes. I, I did like those and, and some of the shots were, were quite good. But, but yeah. Um, so did we have any other thoughts on Eternals?
Speaker 2 01:04:18 You know, I, I I have one last thing to say about the characters. You know, I do going back and you, when you asked about favorites and I was like, man, I love them all know, and Dru and all of them were so awesome, but I do have to say, I think that some Hayek was kind of wasted a little bit as Ajax. I feel like we did not get enough time with her, or there wasn't enough variety. Like she's a phenomenal actress and I feel like we did not get enough of that, that presence that she brings to films in, in this one. So I wish that there was some more time with Ajax and I wish that, or that there was something different or there was more of her because we saw these little bursts of her through the movie. But it just, it felt kind of like a waste of such a huge talent.
Speaker 1 01:04:58 Yeah, definitely agree. When CCE said that, you know, when she was like crying and she was like, Aja loved you, and Revu said, did she? I was like, yeah. Did she, because the scene with you and icar like the scene with Aja and Icarus, like where he kills her, that was so I feel like that was one of the best things in the movie. It was really emotional. I thought it was absolutely horrible. But yeah, we just kind of saw her like, yeah, I understood that she was kind of the mother figure and those little scenes in Babylon, especially like the whole steam engine scene with like FAOs, like that was really good. But the problem is like, we don't see the eternals with each other. Like, and like, because we needed to spend more time in the past, like you just, you don't get enough of them together. Like they work as a team for not even like one scene like the Mesopotamia scene. Like we never really see them work as a team. We don't see them all interact with each other enough. Like we don't see how AJAC relates to like each eternal enough. And so I just, I feel like that's a big, a big problem.
Speaker 2 01:05:57 Absolutely. Especially at that moment where she, you know, she told Icarus like, know your place. And I was like, Ooh, that's more of what I wanted from her in those scenes. I wanted more of that of like, you're the leader of these, of the superhero team. I just feel like there should have been more of that.
Speaker 4 01:06:12 I think her death could have had more weight if, if we followed the movie linearly, uh, because then we we're following them as a unit of all 10 together. Um, and then when she dies, then suddenly there's nine and, and we really would feel the absence of Aja versus as the movie is, uh, she dies and then we keep seeing her later in flashbacks. So I felt, I, I feel like if if we followed it linearly then, and then we really feel the weight when one of them is lost, so it's 10 and then it becomes nine, then it becomes eight, then I feel the absence would've been felt more maybe, I don't know.
Speaker 1 01:06:49 Yeah, I agree. Like, you don't feel the loss of AJAC because they were never a strong family to begin with. And so like, I think the scene, um, in Lin, like when they all split up like that was really good to me. And I thought that like, especially like Barry Cogan like did such a good job in that scene, and so there is emotion there, but it's like that's the only scene with all 10 of them, like having a conversation. Like we don't see all 10, like we see all 10 of them in the same place, but we don't see them all like interact with each other like that. And to have the only scene in the movie with all 10 of them talking to each other, being like the dramatic breakup of the family, it just, it could have been better. Well, that about wraps up this episode. We hope those of you listening enjoyed this and will follow and join us again for the next one. In the meantime, look for more news and reviews from us on the cosmic circus.com. You can follow us for updates on Facebook and on Twitter at my cosmic circus. Thanks for listening.
