[00:00:17] Speaker A: Welcome to the Cosmic Circle, the official podcast for thecosmiccircus.com I'm ayla Ruby. We have an amazing show today and we are going back to our roots. We're chatting about the God of mischief. Tom Hiddleston. Aka Loki. Season two of the Disney Show just started this week and we have a lot of feelings to share. I'm joined by two of my very favorite people as guests, anthony Flagg and Uday.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: Howdy. Howdy.
[00:00:42] Speaker C: Hey, everybody.
[00:00:44] Speaker A: So there are going to be spoilers because that first episode just premiered and we're going to be talking some very big details about it. You may want to prune yourselves before we get too in depth to the conversation. So it's been two years since Loki and the TVA have been on our screens. Were you guys excited about it? Did you not care? What are your feelings?
[00:01:07] Speaker B: Of course I did. Remember, the whole stinger was at the end of season one that we got season two and nobody saw that coming. It was just like, hey, by the way. So that was a lot of hype. It was just kind of like kind of a given with how the ending of the first one ended. I mean, you can't just throw a Loki in front of King and be like, yeah, that's so but no, I've been waiting for Loki all year. I'm glad it came a little bit earlier here in October.
[00:01:33] Speaker C: So I wasn't that excited for season two. I mean, I really loved the ending of season one, but I had kind of mixed feelings on season one as a whole. Not in like it was bad way, just more of a I didn't really care way because Loki's never been one of my favorite characters. But ever since I saw the trailer for season two, I was always super excited because to me, just based on the trailers for season two, I could tell that having a second season was so vitally important for a Disney Plus show because you could build up so much from season one. And I definitely feel that like just one episode in, even though I didn't like parts of season one, they've created such a strong foundation for season two that you can just go nuts right from the beginning. And so really, really excited.
[00:02:22] Speaker A: So I was excited at first. I think Loki was one of the first, or was it the first Disney Plus Marvel show?
[00:02:29] Speaker C: It was the third.
[00:02:31] Speaker A: It was the third. Okay, so there was Wanda, there was Falcon. All right, and then put some respect on.
I'm sorry, Brian, if you're listening to this, I don't mean to forget WandaVision, but it was one of the originals, right? It was something that we one of.
[00:02:48] Speaker B: The first announced things.
[00:02:49] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And we were excited about. And I really loved season one. But it's been a lot of time, two years, I guess, since season one was out and Ant Man came out in the meanwhile, and I'm not going to lie, that kind of made me less excited about season two, which is terrible because I love Tom Hiddleston, but everything surrounding that just dampened my interest. But I was very pleasantly surprised by this and I feel like I'm back into it and excited again.
So what did you guys think of this episode?
[00:03:27] Speaker B: It was a great opener for starting off a second season.
One thing about episode one of season one was that you had like that 20 minutes section where they were recapping pretty much all of Loki's life and it felt like it ran a little long. This one really had a lot of pace to it. I think it's also because you had the action of him trying to race the clock to get back in time with the Temporal Loom, but for great, great start.
[00:03:53] Speaker C: Yeah, I agree. I didn't love the premiere like, of season one, but I think season two was really strong and I think a lot of things happened, a lot of interesting things happened. And no offense to Disney Plus, but that's kind of surprising to me because I feel like they really spend half of their six episode seasons just slowly plodding along and then they get to the meat of the show at the end of episode five, and then there's never enough time to wrap everything up. So honestly, when we saw those shots of Mobius in the Temporal Loom and everything in the trailer, I thought that those were all scenes that were happening either in the finale or towards the end of the season. So to have all of that happen in the first episode has made me really excited for where the show is going to go from here because I wasn't expecting Disney Plus to start off a season with such a bang.
[00:04:48] Speaker A: They really, I think, excelled at getting that ticking clock and getting that sense of urgency, which is, I think, like you guys said something that was missing, maybe from that first premiere, that first season, and other shows. And we know Kang is supposed to be the big bad moving forward right there's. The Kang Dynasty movies coming out. We know this is a threat, especially with how season one ended. So we feel Loki's worry, we feel his concern, and I think that helps propel the episode, really. Although we get to see some more, there's a lot of character building and we get to see a lot of things that we didn't see in season one that I want to talk about, like the TVA in much more depth, that doesn't drag. It all feels like it belongs, and I think it really is very well done.
Was there anything that really stuck out for you guys that you want to draw attention to? Anything that was like a great moment, a worst moment? What were the highlights of this episode for you?
[00:06:06] Speaker B: I like seeing the background on the actual workings, like the mechanical literal. This is how it works.
The temporal loom. A little bit of explanation in it, learning kind of technical words and learning time slipping.
I'm also a Doctor Who fan. Not as big as some of the other people, but I did watch it as it was coming out with David Tennant and so, like, that famous timey whimy thing. I love that episode. And what's funny is, while I was watching Loki, it made me think of that episode of The Angel One, because basically there's a moment where he sends someone back in time to send a warning to themselves in the future. In the same vein that Loki had a conversation simultaneously with OB, and Obi had the conversation with, like, I know it's kind of lame, but that frame and concept, it was just really funny and well executed. I mean, they picked perfect casting for Obi.
[00:07:07] Speaker C: Yeah. I am just so happy that we have real time travel, because that was one of my biggest problems with the first season, is that Loki was sold as a time travel show from the beginning. The very first concept art from the series was Loki in 1970s New York. All of the trailers sold it as a time travel show. And they technically time traveled, but it's like they went to, what, four different places on Earth and then one on Lamentis. And they really could have been in any time. Like, the time travel in season one did not. It was just like going to new places. It wasn't really going to new times.
[00:07:44] Speaker B: They went to the future for Roxanne, then they went back to the past for Vesuvius, and then they had one more. They also went back in time for France to chase her when they were looking for I mean, they did, but it was so brief. I know what you're like. They didn't spend time there.
[00:07:59] Speaker C: Yeah. No, they didn't spend any time there. And I feel like the time periods that they went to didn't really matter. So the rocks on Apocalypse was interesting, but Lamentis in 2077, okay, that could have been any planet, anywhere at any time.
And I feel the same way about that Renaissance fair they went to 85 or something. Yeah. And then they spend five minutes in not even five minutes. They spend 1 minute in France. They spend 1 minute in Pompeii.
[00:08:30] Speaker A: One of the cool things, I think, about the idea of time travel and why it's got such an appeal in science fiction right, is because you can see, okay, so your characters are back in time or forward in time, and they're affecting the future or they're affecting the past. And we didn't get that in those earlier moments that you just called attention to. And I think you did get that threat here. You did get that affecting the future here. And we saw it in that episode or in that moment with OB in.
[00:08:59] Speaker B: His with the butterfly effect.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: Yes, exactly.
[00:09:01] Speaker B: Literal butterfly effect.
[00:09:03] Speaker A: Well, and he was remembering those moments. Right. They needed the temporal aura thing. I'm totally forgetting on the name.
[00:09:09] Speaker B: The extractor.
[00:09:10] Speaker A: Yes, the extractor. Yeah, he's remembering it as it's happening in these I don't know. That was like a really cool time travel trope.
[00:09:19] Speaker B: It's just so sci-fi. Like, I love sci-fi. And that's what I was saying earlier. Like Doctor Who and those concepts.
[00:09:25] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:09:26] Speaker C: Yeah. So that's what I really loved about this episode, that I could tell from the trailers that we were going to get more real time travel this time, and that I'm happy that we got so much of it just in the first episode. And that also goes back to the like, I loved learning about the past of the TVA. That's such an interesting twist. And it's like the way it was written, it's like you don't even realize what a twist that is, because as things were happening, I was like, Wait, he's in the past? But the TVA doesn't have a past. Right, because it's timeless. And then you get the phone call with him, and I'm like, it's just so good. That's the kind of stuff I'm here for. And that's the kind of stuff I didn't think we'd be getting in the very first episode.
[00:10:15] Speaker A: There is so much that happened in the TVA that we need to talk about that phone call. Are you talking about the phone call between Ravona and happened there? So there was a relationship in the comics. I did not read the Loki comics, so I don't know about this relationship, but I've heard other people talk about it. They were involved. They were plotting with each other. And is that what this phone call is going to hints at? What do you think?
[00:10:44] Speaker C: I think it is because I wrote a theory piece. It was one of my first articles for the site back in 2021, because we launched in July of 2021. And my theory was that Renslayer was working with Kang the whole time, even as a judge of the TVA. And so every ruling she handed down was to help his overall plan. And that obviously ended up not being true because in reality, she was mind wiped and didn't know anything about King. But I love that she has a history with him, so she used to know about him. And I think that's why she's so dead set on finding the man behind the curtain. Right. She's not content to just move forward and try to fix the TVA like Mobius. She needs to find the person that started it all. And I think after episode one of season two, it's really clear that even if her memories have been wiped over and over again, there's something in the back of her head that's telling her that she needs to be with Kang. And so I'm really wondering what's going to happen when they get together.
[00:11:46] Speaker A: I think that's with Mobius as know you said that their memories have been wiped and that's been a big theme for these characters. But I do think that there is something just that maybe we're going to have unraveled with Mobius and the jet ski thing. I think we're going to learn more about this character before he was wiped know, brought to the TVA and the same with her. I think that'll be interesting.
[00:12:12] Speaker C: The one thing that I don't understand about Ravonna right now is that if she's Ravona Renslayer and she's King's love interest, partner in crime, whatever, then how is she also a teacher on Earth in 2018 Ohio, as we saw in the finale of season one?
I don't understand how variants can be such different people because we haven't seen variants being such different. Like all the Doctor Strange's we saw became Doctor Strange. All the Peter Parker's we saw became Spider Man. Even the domestic Wanda and multiverse of madness still had powers. And so I don't understand how a variant of Ravonna Renslayer has a different name and became a teacher.
[00:12:56] Speaker A: Well, I wonder if that variant went back in time. I feel like you can almost explain anything with time travel because she's in the comics. She's from 40th century Earth, right?
[00:13:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I think she's from the future.
[00:13:07] Speaker A: So what if she went back and settled much like it seems Sylvia is doing on Sylvie's in Oklahoma and she says she wants everything, right? She wants a life. I wonder if that Renslayer has done that with 2018 Ohio.
[00:13:23] Speaker C: I like that theory.
[00:13:27] Speaker B: One thing since we're talking about the TVA in general is the war room. I was very interested in the fact that that exists and that they have a general that had a bunch of medals and ribbons.
You don't just get handed sometimes you do just get them handed to you. But in this case, I'd imagine that the general had earned some of them by doing something. If you look really closely, I think they have little king faces on them, like on the brass part before the ribbon starts coming down because it'll have like the brass part where it attaches and little piece of the color. But yeah, I swear I saw like little kang faces. So I'm just curious.
He was handing them out, you all just kind of forgot. It's like the dude's just pinned on there. They take the moment and he prunes the wall and shows them the big Kang thing with the faces.
I really want to see how this plays out when they all figure it out because this is kind of like almost a religious thing. It's a faith for them because for them timekeepers are these benevolent big people and they're told, hey, you even saw that they were robots. And it's like, no, you didn't see nothing. You saw nothing. Just carry along.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: But they're saying that the underlying principle still matters. Right. Even if the whole thing that underpins their faith isn't quite real, they're saying, we're going to keep this course. We're going to the same.
[00:14:47] Speaker B: Exactly. It was just so fascinating seeing the literal bit where you were seeing all the branches going in. I really enjoyed that because I'm a visual person. Hearing it is one thing, but literally seeing it kind of play in was really awesome.
[00:15:00] Speaker A: The production design, the props, everything for this show, I feel like nothing was phoned in in this season. This opener, it felt cinematic. And I've said that before with things, but I felt in this case, it felt really high quality.
Like, you could watch it on a big screen and it would have been okay.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: You're giving me thoughts of wanting to put that on my projector. That'd be pretty cool.
[00:15:26] Speaker C: Yeah, you should do that.
[00:15:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
But it really was great seeing a little bit beyond just these rooms full of files and technical documents, like seeing the nitty gritty of it and being around OB, who's a technician who's very intelligent. And my favorite part is that he wrote the book I wrote. It like, I don't know, his joy the whole time was just infectious.
[00:15:51] Speaker A: Well, we got much deeper into the TVA, and we got to see OB. We got to see his workshop. And the work orders were piling up. They couldn't be stopped. What did you think about and this was Kihui Kwan, the Oscar winner now, who is just an amazingly talented actor from everything, everywhere, all at once. And Indiana Jones, I think one of the early Indiana Jones.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: Yeah, he was short Round, the first one.
[00:16:19] Speaker A: Yes.
What did you think about his character? What did you think? Know what it means? And you've said it was a joy to see him on screen. Can you talk more about that, both of you?
[00:16:31] Speaker C: I think that he's a really exciting addition to the cast. His joy is definitely infectious. I feel like that's just Kei Hui Kwan in know, all these pictures he's taking with celebrities. I feel like he just has such a positivity and light that he brings to the world. And I feel like you can really see that whenever you look at him. And so I think he's a really good addition to the show. I think he fits in effortlessly with the other. Like, it doesn't really feel like he's new. I mean, his character has just been there in the TVA, and I feel like that's exactly how he slots into the show.
We have Hunter, B 15 and Mobius and Loki, who have all worked together, and then you have OB, but it doesn't feel like OB is like a new addition to the game. So I really like that. And I do think he's super interesting.
Again, like, that whole time travel conversation was really I just I feel like the TVA in season one was interesting. But it was so bureaucratic and that was obviously part of the point of the TVA. But bureaucracy is boring and I feel like the TVA in just this one episode has gotten much more interesting between the war room and the history and OB and the temporal loom. So I'm very excited.
[00:17:49] Speaker A: There's so much there, right? There's the war room. There's the just I can't believe we didn't get any of this before. This is just so much more exciting.
[00:17:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Even the little portraits that Kang has of himself, like remember the one that shows all the different ones basically outlining the multiversal war.
That was like he went back and put it up. It's like the most baller thing. Look, I control literally everything. Let me take photographs and put that up and just to show my victory. And then all of a sudden, for some reason, he decides I'm going to hide. It all a fascinating thing to think.
[00:18:27] Speaker A: About and it's not even great hiding. Right. Once you had the time stick, you could view it. So it's not like it was still there. It was just beneath this veneer.
There were some other new characters and there was X Five, who is played by actor Raphael Cassal. I think that's how you say his name. He was in Blind Spotting and everyone there's like a little nod to his character being there. Right. And he said he didn't come here often or I don't see you often, something like that to Mobius.
And I feel like his character is going to have a very important part going forward.
What do you guys think?
[00:19:15] Speaker B: Isn't he the one that we see in the trailers that is wearing a suit with them or something?
[00:19:19] Speaker A: Yes, he's in out of that actor X Five gear.
[00:19:24] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It seems like he's playing a part. I mean, I understand it's like an underlying use. I've read like five different, you know, once came out, but I don't really think about him. I just understand he's just going to beside of the show, really the one I'm more interested in is the General and her motivations.
[00:19:43] Speaker A: And this is played by actress Kate Dicky. Dicky, yeah, yeah.
[00:19:48] Speaker B: She was in Game of Thrones, I think.
[00:19:51] Speaker A: And she and Docs are both new. Docs was the guy sleeping the General sleeping in the war room. Right. I think.
[00:19:58] Speaker B: Or she was general docs.
[00:20:01] Speaker C: Okay, that sleeping guy. I don't know who he was.
[00:20:04] Speaker A: An unnamed sleeping guy.
[00:20:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:07] Speaker C: No, that was funny though.
[00:20:08] Speaker B: And then Liz Carr was the judge.
[00:20:11] Speaker C: Yeah, Judge Gamble. Liz Carr was I think like Judge Gamble is super interesting because to be perfectly honest, when I see an old judge in a room like that, I assume that they're the one that doesn't want anything to change. So I thought that she was going to be a huge stick in the mud and so I thought it was really interesting that she's willing to be so flexible and change what she believes in. And I think that she had a couple of good moments there in the war room. I think General Docs is sketchy as hell. I have no idea what she's up to, but I know there have been rumors floating around about who Kate Dickey is playing that I won't stay here.
[00:20:49] Speaker B: Because they changed it. That's not true anymore.
[00:20:52] Speaker C: Okay, yeah, so I've heard from a couple other places that they've changed that, which I think is super freaking lame because I would have been super excited.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: For know we warned people ahead of time. There may be spoilers. Who have you heard? And again, this is just rumors from the Internet. We're not saying that this is necessarily true.
[00:21:11] Speaker C: Yeah, so I heard that Kate Dickey was playing an older variant of Sylvie, and that was the most interesting thing to me, like, going into season two, I'm like real time travel, the main villain of the show being like an older version of Sylvie who like, really unhappy and evil. And so then current Sylvie sees what she can become. I thought that all of that was going to be super cool. And now if she's just playing, I'm sure she's not just a random general in the like, I'm sure there's more to her character, but I'm just, like, come like, I thought she was going to be Sylvie, and she's perfectly cast for being an older Sylvie, so that seems nuts to me if that's been changed.
[00:21:57] Speaker A: There does seem to be a lot seems to revolve around Sylvie, though, with the orders, know, her and everyone else at the TVA to go after Sylvie, and they're raiding their armory. They've got these hunters going off to get her and try to maintain the status quo. Do you think there's anything that plays into that with this general?
[00:22:23] Speaker C: Well, I thought it was that the general is an older variant of Sylvie, and so she wanted to, I don't know, capture her, make sure she stays know. Do that classic thing like in The Lego Movie, too, where the villain was Emmett from the future. And he kicked Emmett under the washing machine to make sure that he had a terrible life and grew up to become him. That's what I thought General Docs was going to do with Sylvie, but now I don't know.
And I don't know. I'm interested in what's going to happen with General Docs, but I have to say, that Hunter guy, I don't care about him. I thought he was kind of annoying and I know he's been in the trailers and I think they're going to find his variant on Earth because he's like an actor in the trailers. I don't know if that's him going undercover or if that's his variant, but I'm just not interested in him yet.
[00:23:17] Speaker A: He gave me Channing Tatum vibes at first, and I was trying to I don't know, I have face blindness, like trying to figure out who the actor was. And I had to look it up, but it seemed like he was important. I don't know. We'll have to find okay, so now let's talk about we mentioned this. We mentioned the TVA and the temporal loom. I want to get more into that because as a piece of technology, that was really cool. And of course, as we go into the room with this temporal loom, there's a door, and it's a very interesting door, especially if you're a fan of mutants. I don't know if you guys caught it there's.
[00:24:01] Speaker B: Like, I caught it.
[00:24:02] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's the X door. Yes.
[00:24:07] Speaker B: I see the reference. I think I'm not putting a whole lot of stock into it, but I thought it was neat, especially leading into what rumors were saying about the TVA and mutants moving forward. But it was well done. I'll say that, though.
[00:24:22] Speaker C: Yeah, I liked the door. I did not understand that it was the X Men door. I think when I first saw it, I thought I was kind of, oh, like that's. Like the way they went into the door was weird. And I remember thinking that, and then I got online and everyone's like, oh my God, it's Cerebro. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess.
But I do think it's interesting with the way the TVA is rumored to pop up in certain things.
[00:24:46] Speaker A: Can we talk about that? I assume Lizzie will cut this or edit this if we're not allowed to talk about this.
[00:24:54] Speaker B: I think it's in the Internet by now.
[00:24:56] Speaker C: Yeah, it is in the Internet by or no, the writer has been teasing it so hard because he was asked, do you think the TVA will show up in other places? And he's like, I think the TVA is the multiversal version of Shield. And it can pop up everywhere.
[00:25:13] Speaker A: And this is Sean, the director no.
[00:25:16] Speaker C: It was no, sorry, the writer of Eric Martin. Yeah, yeah. And this was like a recent interview that just came out a couple days ago, like, right before the premiere. And I'm like, that's so interesting because the TVA being a multiversal version of S-H-I-E-D-L sounds awesome. But then I'm like, are you guys forgetting that you need to lay the groundwork for that? Because where were they in multiverse of Madness? They were supposed to be there and they were cut out. And where are they in something like Quantumania? And this is my biggest problem with the MCU right now, where I'm like, you are not ever going to be a multiversal version of Shield if you only pop up in two Loki seasons and Deadpool Three. So I was going to say, I think it's really exciting if the TVA is going to be in Deadpool Three, but my problem when things aren't planned super far in advance is that then it raises questions about where they were at other times. Because if the TVA is going to intervene in the multiversal shenanigans of Deadpool, why would they not do it for Wanda and Steven?
[00:26:19] Speaker A: I think Marvel writes like writes themselves, so they have a lot of freedom. So if they want to change things or add things as someone gets an idea or something's pitched later on that they have that freedom to do it. I do have a lot of questions about the TVA being the multiversal equivalent of Shield. Because I always figured that Shield just had some back room somewhere, know, folks were monitoring the multiverse or something like that and keeping an eye on things, but I guess not.
So I think it raises a lot of questions.
[00:26:54] Speaker C: I thought that was a little bit out of S-H-I-E D's L depth because I think they were barely touching space.
[00:27:00] Speaker A: That's true.
[00:27:02] Speaker C: And again, not to complain, but there's no world building for any arm of governmental organization monitoring space. Right? Because we had Sword in WandaVision, but then Damage Control is running around doing all this crap in all the other shows and then now there's the Saber space station in the Marvels, which doesn't seem to be Sword or Damage Control. So I'm like, guys, what's going on here? Like one thing, just have Sword.
[00:27:29] Speaker A: There's a lot of agencies with acronyms running around dealing with superpowered people.
[00:27:34] Speaker B: I feel like after Captain America is going to get worse.
[00:27:38] Speaker C: Captain America needs to tell me if superheroes are Damage Control's Responsibility, sword's Responsibility, or what. I'm like, just one organization, please, just merge them.
[00:27:57] Speaker A: Do you think the temporal loom is fixable? Do you think we're going to see, know, ultimately break be? Is the integrity of it going to the what are your predictions?
[00:28:08] Speaker B: I'm an optimist and I think it'll get fixed, but it ain't going to be so easy as you think it's going to be. Nothing's ever that easy to fix.
And I say this only because we've seen that little clip of Loki time slipping into Oklahoma. I mean, you'd assume he was fixed after the end of this first episode.
[00:28:25] Speaker A: But the truth, he's not, apparently.
[00:28:27] Speaker B: Yeah, but not entirely. Oh, it's like step one of five or something, I don't know. But he's got a ways to go until he's going to be all set up and ready to go. But even then I feel like there's going to be collateral damage from all the work they're going to have to do to the temporal loom. Like, come on now, if you keep messing with something and tapping on it when it's very sensitive, it's going to break.
[00:28:52] Speaker A: I'm just saying collateral damage besides skin, question mark.
[00:28:57] Speaker B: Well, I'm saying for the temporal loom itself, it's self damaging within the system because of messing with it.
Opie freaked out when they were telling him, hey, there's power surges. And he's like, excuse me, I deal with a lot of. Machinery. If you give it improper voltage or wattage or whatever, you will ruin it. It will not work. We have burned up motors. This can happen in this situation, too. People think these things are infallible, things break. And so I want to see what happens if things really break, because OB is clearly going to be doing a lot.
[00:29:34] Speaker C: I think it's going to break because when Loki went into the like, it seemed like stuff was really going down. And there's also shots in the trailer of these weird black, squiggly lines, and I feel like that's kind of time and space, like, pulling apart. I'm not sure if that's what it is, but that's my theory.
And Sylvie's there, and I feel like Sylvie wouldn't be back in the TVA unless it was really important. And obviously someone pruned Loki when he wasn't looking, and that person clearly wanted to help him. So I don't know. I think that the temporal loom is going to break in the finale just because how do you follow up the finale of season one, right?
[00:30:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:20] Speaker C: With letting the multiverse go free. What if the multiverse breaks?
[00:30:25] Speaker B: I have a theory that Sylvie got stranded there in the future in that bit. Somebody dropped her off there.
[00:30:32] Speaker C: Interesting.
[00:30:32] Speaker B: It could have been Loki to protect her, to come back for her, someone to damage her. I don't know.
[00:30:39] Speaker A: Who do you guys think built the temporal loom?
[00:30:43] Speaker B: I'd assume Kang, like everybody else.
[00:30:47] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:30:49] Speaker B: I can't see anything beyond that.
[00:30:51] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:30:52] Speaker B: I'm sure there's an actual.
[00:30:58] Speaker A: You know, to go back a little bit to Loki himself and to go back to that moment where Know was outside at the loom, and Loki was waiting till his little indicator turned green so he could get pruned. And obviously he didn't have the time stick. He couldn't prune himself. There was a phone call.
Who do you guys think called him, and who do you think pruned him?
[00:31:29] Speaker B: I'm not sure about the call, but I think he pruned himself.
[00:31:34] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that that's kind of everyone's theory right now. That a future version of Loki pruned.
You know, I think that makes sense.
As for the phone call, I just feel like we have no idea who it could be. I feel like it's someone Kang related. Like, it's either Kang or, like, Miss Minutes or Rabona or something.
[00:31:52] Speaker B: Like Minutes.
[00:31:54] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, because Miss Minutes wasn't in this episode.
[00:31:56] Speaker B: Where is Miss Minutes? That's a good question.
[00:31:59] Speaker A: We talked about her a little bit, or the episode talked about her. Right. They said that you can't trust her, which we knew.
[00:32:08] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:32:09] Speaker B: I wonder if she has her own motives or if they're all for King, because now with him gone, who's she working for? Who's she doing stuff for?
[00:32:17] Speaker C: So I didn't really read reviews, but I think I read a little bit of one review, and someone said that Miss Minutes has a much larger role this season than she did in the first. And there is that shot in the trailer of her becoming like that giant ghost. Right. And I don't really think that Victor Timely has his own miss minutes. I think there's one missed minutes that serving all of the variants. Right.
[00:32:41] Speaker B: That's what I'm saying. Who's she going to go work?
[00:32:48] Speaker C: Don't know. I think yeah, it's hard to tell what Miss Minutes is up to right now, but I'm excited to see more of her and I love that Mobius can't trust her anymore. And she's like the person that does everything in the so yeah, I really.
[00:33:05] Speaker B: Felt for Loki, though, when he kept slipping between the different time zones or time months. Hey, Casey. Casey's like, who the hell are you? And then Casey, hey, what are you doing? Which, speaking of Casey, I think you wanted to mention something about the Staying Awake thing for did.
[00:33:20] Speaker A: You know, one of the things I really liked in this episode was just a little nod to Moon Knight because I feel like we never hear any more about Moon Knight. And I loved you know, there's this podcast that he's listening to in Moon Knight to Stay Awake and obviously called Staying Awake because know afraid of these different personalities and his own did, and Casey was also listening to the same podcast know, he met in the past. It's a nice tiny little nod tying everything together and I just want more.
[00:33:56] Speaker C: I did not notice that at all. So I'm going to have to go back and watch.
[00:34:00] Speaker A: It was so small. It was just like a millisecond, almost.
[00:34:06] Speaker C: Wait, I wanted to ask you guys, was the picture really fuzzy for you on your screen?
No, to me it had this kind of grainy artifacty look and I thought it was just me, but it was like that on my phone, on my iPad, on my computer, and it's like that in people's screenshots as well.
[00:34:26] Speaker A: I think it was just cinematography.
[00:34:29] Speaker C: So I'm wondering if it was like an intentional thing because it wasn't like super crisp and clear on HD because it made everything feel like a little bit faker almost, because it had this very slight grain over it. And I think it might only be really evident on a larger screen.
But I don't know.
I kept pausing it at the start because I was trying to fix my video because I thought that it wasn't buffering properly.
It's not that it was blurry. It's not that my connection was bad because they were clear. It's just that the entire picture was a little bit grainy.
[00:35:07] Speaker A: Were there any moments that you didn't notice that? Because if the graininess is indicating some of an illusion and I'm thinking of WandaVision and all of that, like, is there any moment in the episode that may have been real that was.
[00:35:25] Speaker C: Know, I don't think I noticed the graininess going away.
I kind of just figured it's because everything in the TV is kind of retro that they were trying to make it look a little bit retro. But yeah, but I didn't notice this in season one. So that's why I was really confused and thought my maybe you could argue.
[00:35:44] Speaker B: That it's interference from the damage that's going on because the power surges, aesthetic choice, I don't know.
[00:35:54] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm wondering if it's going to still be there in other episodes because I don't know if it was there in the end. Credit scene.
[00:36:00] Speaker B: How about this? Watch a trailer and see if it looks the same to you still.
[00:36:03] Speaker C: Yeah, I should.
[00:36:08] Speaker A: We'Ve mentioned go ahead, Red.
[00:36:10] Speaker B: Sorry, I was just going to say it was neat that the first episode had a post credit scene and it was quite long, showing Sylvie going up to McDonald's and getting it was a.
[00:36:20] Speaker A: Very clean McDonald's, and she wanted to try everything. And it's very retro, very cool.
And that was her only appearance, actually, in this episode, which was interesting.
[00:36:36] Speaker B: No, because she had the one word where right before he gets pruned.
[00:36:40] Speaker A: Yes. And the elevator.
[00:36:41] Speaker B: Yeah, but that was brief.
[00:36:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:45] Speaker B: They introduced quite a few characters, though, in this.
[00:36:47] Speaker A: There's a lot of stuff going, you know, speaking, I guess, about the stone elephant in the room. We talked about it, but there were literally stone Kang statues in this, guys. So we didn't see Kang in person. We didn't know Jonathan Majors, the actor, in person in this episode.
Obviously, there's a lot of reference to his characters. What do you guys think about know, what are we building towards?
[00:37:17] Speaker B: Mean he's traveling in some way, shape or form. If he's the founder of the TVA, I think his thumbprint is maybe not in the literal sense, but in some way embedded into the loom. So you can't not work on it and not have him involved one way or another. So we know Victor Tamley's showing up for a couple episodes at least, and we're going to spend time at the World Trade Fair.
I'm just trying to think back. That was back in that was a year and a half ago. No, wait, when did Quantum Mania come out? My memory is getting bad.
[00:37:55] Speaker A: February 23, I think. Right.
[00:37:58] Speaker B: Okay, so this year.
[00:37:59] Speaker A: This year, apparently. Oh my gosh.
[00:38:01] Speaker B: Oh, man. So that's a pretty quick follow up from that post credit scene, which was kind of neat to tie it back.
[00:38:08] Speaker A: And we haven't even talked about that post credit scene. Right. That is pretty major leading into this season.
[00:38:14] Speaker B: I mean, it's a scene from Loki we're going to see, I'm assuming next week. I have no clue, really?
Maybe episode three. They got to find them eventually because when they show promos, they only show stuff from the first three episodes, realistically.
[00:38:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:29] Speaker B: And the screeners they give out were only up to four. So I have no.
[00:38:36] Speaker C: I like, I'm curious to know what the other Kings are going to do about the TVA, like, what Timely's interest in the TVA will be.
But I also know that we're going to go back to He Who Remains as Citadel. Right. We saw it in the trailer with his dead body there, and that was in the first episode. That last that, and that's something I just realized now. But I kind of thought that maybe we'd pick up with Sylvie there, like, still sitting on the floor, and then we'd see her leave, but instead we just see her arrive at the place after she left the Citadel. So I'm really curious as to, like, why they would go back to the Citadel. And it was also reported that Jonathan Majors is playing both Victor Timely and He Who Remains, and then potentially more variants of Kang.
So he obviously did the voice for He Who Remains in episode one. But my question is, is He Who Remains in this season as just not a flashback, but as a dead body and maybe flashback, and I'm guessing voice recordings.
[00:39:40] Speaker B: I'm thinking his flashbacks has to be or are they going to go to.
[00:39:43] Speaker C: The future and meet him again?
[00:39:45] Speaker A: But is anyone ever truly dead with time travel?
[00:39:48] Speaker C: Yeah, because, remember, wouldn't he always end up back there?
Wouldn't he always end up back at the end of time? Because he like, there was a multiversal war between the Kings. He harnessed Eliath, he ended it, and then he set up the TVA and ended up in his Citadel. So with him dead and a multiverse of Kings coming, isn't he going to be the one to harness Eliath and end up back at his Citadel?
Like, when he tells Sylvie that he's going to see her soon, does he mean that the other Kings are going to be seeing her soon? Or that He Who Remains is going to be having this moment with Sylvie at the end of time?
[00:40:27] Speaker B: Again, I think he meant just that more variants were coming.
He Who Remains, in my opinion, is just dead. She stabbed him. I mean, he died. And then once she did that, the multiverse broke open like he said was going to happen. I know he's a villain, but I can take him at face value from that long conversation because he was pretty transparent the whole time with them, albeit kind of a dick, but he was pretty honest because everything he said was ultimately true. He's like, I just had to do what I had to do. I run this for this reason. So you kill me, and now you're going to have to deal with you either let me off and just take the reins, or the other option is multiversal war. So somebody's going to have to take control of the TVA and keep all these Kings out.
[00:41:14] Speaker C: Yeah. Or does the TVA I think with time travel, it's just interesting because there can be loops, right? Like, if future Loki pruned himself, then that's a loop, because future Loki saved past Loki, but future Loki wouldn't have been there to save past Loki if future Loki hadn't pruned him in the first place. These are the kinds of things you get into with time loops. And so that's why I'm saying, can the Avengers really defeat a multiverse of Kangs, or is Kang going to have to defeat himself?
[00:41:44] Speaker A: This is why in Star Trek there's a temporal mechanics course and why they know their own version of the TVA. Star Trek did it first and it made so much more sense. But I won't get into that.
[00:41:57] Speaker B: I will say that it was a very big point. Remember when the finale came out, a big point of contention was that conversation with Kang, and everybody had their own interpretation of it then. So I can only imagine how it's going to be this season with whatever we find out.
[00:42:13] Speaker C: Sorry, I was just going to say time travel in the like it wants to have its cake and eat it too, because the MCU is like all kinds of time travel. Right. Endgame was, oh, we create branches. And then Loki's, like, branched timelines and separate universes are, like, the same then, which I think that makes sense, but it just keeps getting more and more confusing, because now, going into season two of Loki, we have time loops. And we also had time loops in Agents of SHIEDL. And people said Agents of S-H-I-E-D-L can't be canon because their time travel results in a loop, not a branch. But Loki's time travel results in both a branch and a just, it's, it's just really interesting. And I'm wondering if they're going to keep writing themselves into a hole or if it's going to become like a little bit more clear.
[00:43:02] Speaker B: I think it's interesting at the end of the post credit scene, where it shows Loki that he specifies that it's a branch timeline because they didn't do that before. Yeah, that's a nice little divot there. So I'm thinking, like, are we going to keep all branches and we're just going to have to specify that this is a branch timeline moving forward, or are they going to start pruning again?
Because it seems like they have to prune in some form of way, otherwise everything's just going to mass fail.
[00:43:29] Speaker C: Well, it sets and things are going to intersect and cause incursions.
[00:43:32] Speaker A: Yeah, and it sets up a conflict too, though, because B 15, I think, was very much against causing the atrocity of the pruning timelines. Yeah, because you're essentially ending all these lives. And I think that's an interesting conflict moving forward between her, who has been an ally up to this point, with Loki and seeing what happens there.
Do we think that has this become just really hard to understand?
Because we're going through time loops, we're going through branches, and all of this. Do you think that Loki has appeal for just casual fans? Like, could you just watch this and enjoy it? Or do you need to know many movies, many episodes deep to really get your head around it all?
[00:44:29] Speaker B: Well, just the simple fact that it's a concept of policing time and space makes it a hard sell. But for general Marvel fans, of course they're going to eat it up because it's all low key. One of the most beloved characters since phase one. And even I sometimes have to take a moment and chart it out to make sure I'm fully understanding the flow of things.
And luckily, there's a lot of people who do a good job of explaining it and breakdown. But Christ, the fact that sometimes I need that is a little frustrating.
[00:45:09] Speaker C: I agree. I think it can be hard to follow. I think general audiences are clearly invested in Loki because season one is like the most watched show.
[00:45:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:45:19] Speaker C: And but I don't know how much of it the general audience is understanding because my mom is a general audience member. She watches all this Marvel stuff with me because I like it. And I have not been able to watch Loki with her. We tried like three times and we never finished season one. And she just cannot understand the time travel stuff and she doesn't like Loki enough to get through it for like I think a lot of people are watching it because it's Loki. But if this concept was done with any other character, do we really think that people would be watching it if.
[00:45:53] Speaker B: It was a new character? No. Yeah, that's the thing. They knew banking on Loki was the big sell because everybody walking out of not everybody. Handful of people walking out of Endgame, let's be realistic, were saying, hey, that thing about Loki walking off with that Tesseract is kind of like going to be a thread that needs to be followed. And they did great. The announcement was big and everybody was happy to see him thinking, oh, we get scumbag. Loki again. The first one we fell in love with. So it's very obviously propelled by the fact that we have Tom Hiddleston. Not a bad not it's not a bad thing because that's awesome. You're like, hey, they like them, let's give them more miss. I want another season of Miss Marvel because I like the character so much. Absolutely. I'm excited about Miss Marvel's or about the Marvels because she's in it like that.
[00:46:42] Speaker A: I think it shows you again that casting really matters. And I think when Know signed Tom Hiddleston, they just got an amazing thing. They made such a great decision, and he made a great decision by signing with them. Right. Because I can't imagine, even though we've had the variants, even though we've had in Loki itself, the other characters, I can't imagine anyone else playing him.
He is Loki yeah, and he's such a charming actor, and he's just got this natural charisma, even when he's being bad, that you want to watch him on screen. And that's such an underrated thing when people talk about TV and movies.
[00:47:24] Speaker B: What's one of y'all's favorite Loki scenes, like, hands down, was one of Avengers when he goes into the theater and takes the dude's eye out, and he just so casually doesn't I'm like, yeah, I'm going to enjoy this movie. And that was early on. I love Loki, man. How can you not like him?
[00:47:44] Speaker C: It's not that I don't like him.
[00:47:45] Speaker A: It's just let's okay, let's hear it.
[00:47:50] Speaker C: Loki peaked in Avengers One, and I do not care about the TV show version of Loki at all. I didn't like him because I thought where he went in Ragnarok was interesting, right? Becoming he was still like, a wily trickster, but he was losing his edge. Right? And I think for good reason. He had also lost his family and achieved his life's dream, only to realize that it was too much work. And so I kind of liked the Ragnarok version of Loki. And in Loki season one, I was not vibing with our main variant of Loki because I'm like, you just sped run all of his character development by having him watch the MCU movies he appeared in. And I thought that the writing was really sloppy to make him from a pure villain to kind of more similar to that ragnarok Loki, even though he isn't that version, he hasn't gone through it.
[00:48:43] Speaker A: He hasn't?
[00:48:44] Speaker C: Yeah. And I feel like he's lost all of his edge. Like, in season one, everyone kept talking about what a trickster he was and what a backstabber he was, but I never once believed for a second he was going to backstab anybody because all he was doing was following people around crying, which is fine, he's out of his depth, but Mobius was like, you're a trickster. And Sylvie was like, you just want a throne. And I'm like, this man has been following you around like a lost puppy across the universe. Why do you think he'd betray you? And so that was my biggest problem with season one, is just that I didn't care about the main character, but I liked everything else. And I actually liked Sylvie the best in season one because she's the Loki that has that edge to her, that has that bite that Hiddleston has just completely lost. And I don't really feel that way going into season two. I still don't think he has any bite to him, but I think from the trailers, it looks like he might be getting a little bit of that back. Yes, but it's not even that. This is what I mean when I'm saying season two. I didn't care about Loki in season one because of these things that I just mentioned. But just based on the trailers for season two, I'm excited because he was out of his depth in season one, but now he's really out of his depth and he's scared. And that's something that we haven't seen from Loki before, because in season one, he was maybe, like, scared.
[00:50:08] Speaker B: He was confused and scared.
[00:50:10] Speaker C: Yes. But now he's like, terrified of a person more powerful than him.
[00:50:14] Speaker B: Well, he's also even more scared because he's learned so much. Think about it. For him, it was confusing and it was like, well, I don't really understand this. I'm not a big I can't grasp the concept and it's this big theme these timekeepers. But now that he's pulled back the full facade, he understands exactly what's happening, the level of the threat. The dude's even more scared than before.
[00:50:34] Speaker A: Do you think now he has something to lose because he's obviously got very strong feelings for Sylvie.
[00:50:42] Speaker C: I think he has stuff to lose with, like, Mobius, right, because people point out, like, Mobius is his first.
[00:50:47] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:50:47] Speaker C: And I think that that's really and and like, this is just what you can do with the second season and more episodes. You can take things that you built in season one that maybe people like me didn't like, but you take them in a new direction. Because in this first episode of season two, I already like Loki more than I did in season one. And like I'm saying, based on the trailers, I thought that it was a powerful moment to end Sylvie on having achieved her life's goal and realizing that it didn't fulfill her. I thought it was a strong moment to leave her crying on the floor of the Citadel. And then the fact that what she does after that is she goes to 1980s America and gets a job at McDonald's. To me, that is just so perfect, like that concept.
And you can't do these things if you only get a six episode limited series.
And so that's why I'm very optimistic about the future of Loki.
[00:51:47] Speaker A: So I will say that there are six episodes in this season, right. And I think the ending is timed to the first day the Marvels comes out.
[00:51:56] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:51:56] Speaker C: Which is stupid.
[00:51:57] Speaker A: Same night, unless they all tie in.
[00:52:00] Speaker C: It drops at 09:00 p.m.. Eastern. At the same time the Marvels comes out. And showtimes for the Marvels starts at like, what, five or 06:00 p.m.. Eastern? Who is going?
[00:52:11] Speaker A: We know people who would totally do that.
[00:52:14] Speaker B: I know plenty of people who are exactly doing that, and they can't.
[00:52:19] Speaker C: I'm definitely watching both. But for me, I'm pacific, right? So my Marvel showtime start at like, five Pacific and Loki comes out at six Pacific. So I'm going to go watch.
[00:52:31] Speaker B: You can watch when you go home.
[00:52:32] Speaker C: Yeah, but then I would like to watch the Loki finale when it drops. And I also think it's absolutely freaking ridiculous. That the reason for the delay for all the shows at the start of the year were that we want to space out the projects and give them room to breathe. And I'm like, and then you're releasing literally overlapping them same day as the Marvels. Not the same week because most of the Disney Plus shows have ended the same week as a movie, but the same day. I'm like, you guys need to get your head out of your ass.
[00:53:01] Speaker B: And they also started it right after Ahsoka ended two days later.
[00:53:04] Speaker C: Started two days. It's ridiculous. And I'm sure that it's just because of production delays and they need to just get these things out and they can't delay them forever. But I'm like not skip a week, but then move Loki to Wednesday that week. They loved doing that. They would move the days of some episodes.
[00:53:22] Speaker B: So sorry for the one last thought I have about Loki is this with a lot of the Marvel shows, I'm always frustrated with that one episode we got. I'm just like, why couldn't this be like a two episode premiere? For the first time ever, I've gotten a premiere. And I'm like, Yep, I'm good. I'm satisfied. It was great because I went themed. I went green, everything. I had broccoli, cheddar soup, green tea, and a key lime pie slice at the end.
[00:53:45] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:53:45] Speaker B: I mean, I went all out. I was like, you got to do it.
Got to go green.
[00:53:52] Speaker A: Do either of you have any really big predictions moving forward for things that you haven't said yet that you think we're going to see play out or that you think we are going to get answers to?
[00:54:03] Speaker C: I'm just along for the ride. I don't really know what to theorize at this. Like, I don't know how Kang plays into like my theory was that we were going to get some Kang and Ravonna stuff and then we have that confirmed in the first episode. So I'm just waiting to see what we get.
They've won me.
[00:54:22] Speaker B: I'm curious if this is mine. I'm prediction that like season one, they throw out that there's a season three or that this will carry on and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Titles card. That's my prediction. Crazy title card. Add on saying, Loki will return in blank. There's your prediction right there. Loki will return in Deadpool Three or some shit. They'll say something like that. There you go. That is my prediction.
[00:54:47] Speaker C: They're going to say the TVA will return in Deadpool Three.
They're not going to say deadpool. Three. They're going to say, you know how our fellow writer Alex has been teasing online that the movie is going to be called Deadpool and Wolverine something?
[00:55:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:55:02] Speaker C: So they're going to reveal the title of Deadpool Three in the title card that says the TVA will return in name of Deadpool movie.
[00:55:10] Speaker B: There you go.
I love that.
[00:55:13] Speaker A: And will we get a trailer at the end of the Marvel then for the next?
Are we that far along with production. No.
[00:55:21] Speaker B: Imagine if there was a clip of Deadpool.
[00:55:24] Speaker C: Deadpool hasn't finished filming. And then also but they did film.
[00:55:27] Speaker A: Something, because.
[00:55:32] Speaker C: I don't like it when post credit scenes are trailers when they're just clips from other movies. I think it's okay, but I definitely prefer unique post credit scenes. But when they're trailers, like, how no Way Home's second end credit scene was the Multiverse of Madness trailer.
It's only cool for that one week.
[00:55:52] Speaker B: That one time cool forever.
Like when you watch it on Disney Plus, you're like, yeah, thanks, cool. I know. I've seen it three times.
[00:56:02] Speaker C: And even and even clips from other movies are still cool because they have exclusivity for, like, a year.
[00:56:09] Speaker B: Right?
[00:56:09] Speaker C: We saw Loki at the end of Quantumania, and then now we're getting the show. And we're getting the show. But, like, if you go back and rewatch Quantumania five years from now, which.
[00:56:19] Speaker B: I don't know why you can torture.
[00:56:20] Speaker C: Yourself with that, you're still going to be like, wow, that post credit scene was so cool because even though it's just a clip from Loki, that's what told you that Victor Timely was coming. And that's the first time Loki was on the big screen in four.
So I don't want trailers at the end of movies.
[00:56:40] Speaker A: All right, well, I think we're going to end on that note.
It's been a really lovely conversation and thank you all for listening to The Cosmic Circle, the official podcast of thecosmiccircus.com where can people find you both?
[00:56:57] Speaker B: At redova Underscore on Twitter.
[00:57:01] Speaker A: It will always be Twitter.
[00:57:03] Speaker B: It's not going to be always. I'm sorry.
[00:57:05] Speaker C: Yeah, it's still Twitter. I am at golden on all social.
[00:57:09] Speaker A: Media platforms, and I'm T-U-L-A-N rights on Twitter. And you can find everything we've talked about, everything we've
[email protected]. Thank you so much for listening and we'll hear you next or see you next time.
[00:57:24] Speaker B: Bye. All bye.
