[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to another episode of the Cosmic Circle, the official podcast of the Cosmic Circus. On today's episode, we are going to be talking about Pride month, or actually, I guess for our purposes, pride year, because we've had a great year this year.
My name is Brian Kitson, and I am head writer of the Cosmic Circus. And joining me today, we have Cam and Izzy. How are we doing today?
[00:00:23] Speaker B: Hi.
I'm doing great, thank you. It's a lovely, wet, rainy day in Britain in the middle of Pride month, or the start of Pride month, even, but the middle of pride year, as it should be. I will just put that out there.
But, yeah, I'm ready to talk gay and enjoy it.
[00:00:43] Speaker C: I'm also doing good. I'm happy to be here. It is a crisp 90 degrees, which is homophobic. But you know what? We'll let it slide.
And, yeah, I am also ready to talk gay.
[00:00:55] Speaker A: I was going to say, when Cam mentioned it being rainy there, I was thinking, that's homophobic. And then you addressed it as well. I was like, we have two sides of the homophobic coin here. Weather conditions during Trident. I can't believe we should be thriving, and instead we are dismal or sweaty.
[00:01:12] Speaker C: But we come together today in an attempt to rectify this situation.
[00:01:16] Speaker B: Yes, join. Join the rainbow across the. Across the globe. Yeah.
[00:01:22] Speaker A: Because this year, we actually are across the globe with Cammy. You being here from the UK, we get that other perspective that we don't get because America's falling apart.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: So is the UK. I can, you know.
[00:01:38] Speaker C: No, if we're all going to move, I don't know where we're moving to, but we'll make it happen.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: I've heard Scotland is. Is doing okay right now.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: So I think that to start this year off, you know, it's been exactly pretty much a year since we recorded our last one. I think we recorded at the end of May. Maybe it was the beginning of June.
So, like, any good yearly check in, we're going to do our own version of State of the union address. And so this is the State of the gay address.
Izzy, you were here with me last time when we were on the podcast, we covered a lot. You know, we had, you know, we just had red, white and royal blue, which was.
Changed the world. We had heart stoppers interview, the vampire. We had so many great things.
And then this year, how has it changed one year later? What has been different with queer media for you?
[00:02:34] Speaker C: I feel like the state of the gay world is worse, but the state of the gay media is pretty good, at least for me. I think it's really interesting. Something I've been thinking a lot about lately is how so many big, popular pieces of media are, like, very explicitly queer right now to the stuff of, like, in the sense of, I'm not just talking with my gay friends about gay media right now. I'm talking with everybody about gay media right now because it's just what everyone's watching. That's really cool.
And I haven't often, like, had that before. I've been like, hey, can everybody watch this thing that only I and some of my friends are watching? I think everybody should be watching this thing that I and some of my friends are watching. Um, but now it very much feels like it's just part of the cultural conversation and in a really cool way.
[00:03:24] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. I think that you have a very good point about that. When we were talking last year, there was things that, like, only we were talking about, it felt like. And then we started to have those bits and pieces that people were finally starting to talk about. And when I was compiling this list that we're going to go through eventually, as you can remember, I was like, oh, I forgot about this. I forgot about this. Like, people were talking about these big moments, and they were. They were moments, and that's not something that I've come to expect from queer media up until this year.
[00:03:54] Speaker C: Yeah, no, it really wasn't like that before.
Great year for, I don't know, lesbian screwball comedies and bisexuality as a whole.
[00:04:04] Speaker A: We're winning, we're winning, we're winning.
Cam, what about for you? How do you feel that we've grown since last pride?
[00:04:12] Speaker B: I've noticed a lot more gay and video games. I think that's been quite a big thing. Like Spider man game that had a side mission where you help a gay man not propose, but ask another one to prom. That was a good one. So I think it's just becoming more part of the conversation, especially in video games, where it's very much needed because the video game side of everything, like, the fandoms and stuff, is a hot mess. So it's very much needed. And I enjoyed, like, playing, like, I played Horiz. I'm trying to look in at my game list now. Played Horizon, forbidden west. That was. That had some gay moments, which I enjoyed. There's like a whole DLC where, like, the main character, you know. Yeah, stuff like that. But, yeah, so I've been enjoying that a lot.
And, yeah, I haven't actually watched too much like, media wise. But there are a few bits I've really enjoyed here and there.
Yeah.
[00:05:08] Speaker A: I didn't even know that our gay queerness is getting onto video games. My nephew played Spider man. Didn't tell me this.
[00:05:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:17] Speaker A: Disappointed that I didn't hear about this before.
[00:05:19] Speaker C: I also didn't hear about gay Spider man video game. Where have I been?
[00:05:23] Speaker B: Yeah, Spider man two. And there's a mission with Miles Morales at school where you, like, help him. Help this guy go around the city and, like, ask another one to prom. It's very cute.
[00:05:36] Speaker C: I reviewed Hades two recently, which is a very bisexual game.
[00:05:41] Speaker B: Oh. And we've had dragons. Not Dragon's age three. The one, the Baldur's gate three, that was also. Baldur's a gay one.
[00:05:49] Speaker C: No, everyone's gay in Baldur.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: Yeah, everyone's. Everyone is.
[00:05:52] Speaker C: It's hard not to be gay in Baldur's Gate.
[00:05:55] Speaker A: So what's interesting about this is one of our writers was trying to work about an article for. About, you know, queer representation in video games, and I had brought up Baldur's gate three only because there is not a single client that I'm working with right now who isn't either, like, non binary or trans, who does not feel represented by that game, because you could just be whoever you are and it's just super queer. And, like, it's. They described as helping with their gender dysphoria, which I just is crazy that this game is doing this.
[00:06:29] Speaker C: Oh, it's. Well, just, I think also just, like, if we're talking about queerness in video games, the fact that the avatars are, like, the tab that you play as is as customizable as it is. Like, you don't just get, like, two options for gender. You can customize it as much as you want. You can romantically pursue whoever you want as whatever gender you're working at. It's pretty great.
[00:06:53] Speaker A: I love it. This is, you know, they mentioned before about PTSD being able to be treated by video games, and here we are, you know, helping other populations, our people, you know?
[00:07:03] Speaker C: Right. Oh, that's so great.
Wow. I actually haven't super fully considered that other than, like, pronoun selection in games, like, how much customizing an avatar can really be cathartic in that way.
[00:07:18] Speaker A: Right. Because you just get to be exactly whoever you are.
So it sounds like we made a lot of positive progress. Is there anything that we feel has maybe taken a step back in our, you know, queerness for pop?
[00:07:35] Speaker B: Definitely. Like, the discourse surrounding anything sort of like, especially on certain websites and stuff. But I think that's probably the most damning and especially in the news. Like, I don't know if there's a big debate about trans people in America right now, but there is very much so in the UK.
Yeah. So much so that they've stopped puberty blockers for children while they, like, do whatever. But yeah, it's very much so. That's not helping fuel things in media when it comes to, like, the representation and stuff.
[00:08:14] Speaker A: So.
[00:08:14] Speaker B: So definitely think it's a step backwards in terms of acceptance, like, online and things.
[00:08:22] Speaker C: Unfortunately, I would agree with that. I think that, again, it's this weird disconnect where the state of queer media can be really nice and then the state of the world and our legislation is not particularly great right now. I will say I think there's definitely more trans representation now more than ever, but there is definitely less in comparison to other queer representation.
Although I haven't watched monkey man yet, but I did hear that Dev Patel does, like, have, like, an army of trans women and they go do action movie things together. And that's great. But other than that, I haven't really heard of a lot.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I've heard the same with that. So I need to check that one out.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: So I actually got to see that one early for the cosmic circle, cosmic circus and review it. And not only is, yes, 100%, but they also, in between the scenes, there are these moments of, like, showing you what's happening in, like, his country, but they're also talking about news stories. And a lot of stories are about, like, trans individuals being murdered or, like, women being, like, you know, kidnapped. And, like, all of these stories, and he highlights them. Each one gets, like a. Like, almost like a new segment they're talking about in between the story he's telling. And that was also really cool, too, because it just covers, but, yeah, then there's a badass group of trans individuals that just come in, and they come in, they're in most of the story, but they come in the third act, and they just did some of the best scenes.
[00:09:53] Speaker C: That's fantastic. Ugh, I need to see it. There's so many movies to see, so little time to go to the theaters.
[00:10:01] Speaker A: Oh, it's only going to keep getting better.
[00:10:03] Speaker C: That's true. One thing that I will actually say, though, that I have noticed this year that I think is a good thing is that I work with kids a lot. Um, and children's attitude towards queer stuff, at the very least from when I was younger, to now is very different. Um, and I think a lot of that is deeply impacted by media because I think that now the kids who are growing up now are just having this more, like, mainstream content around them. So there's just, like, there's less shame in it, I think. Um, and so it's really interesting. Like, when I was younger, I was kind of, like, afraid to call things, like, gay unless, like, I don't know, people would call it, use that as, like, an insulting word. But other than that, kids these days are just talking about it like it's very normal and natural. And from a lot of conversations I'm having with them, at the very least where I'm at, I live in a very liberal place, you know, but, and for my conversations with them, a lot of it has to do with things like heart stopper and stuff that is accessible for young kids to watch where it is presented as normal.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I can attest to that because I work in a sort of shop that sells, like, a whole. It's a bit, like a hot topic, but we have it over here and it sells films and stuff as well. And we do, like, a range of sexuality badges and the amount of, like, kids that buy those and, like, talk with their friends about what they think they are and stuff. I've noticed an awful lot more from when it would have been at my age, like, scared to even, you know, say anything about it. So it's nice. It's heartwarming to see that when I'm, like, at work and stuff, which I think find really interesting because I would not have been like that in public, you know, if I was, like, 1314 or whatever.
[00:11:46] Speaker C: So, no, I remember being little and being, like, super nervous to put, like, a rainbow sticker, like a very vague rainbow sticker on my computer because I was like, will they know? And I was like, I want people to know, but also, will they know? Like, it was terrifying. And all these kids are just, like, having their little pins and stuff.
[00:12:03] Speaker B: That's so good.
[00:12:03] Speaker C: I love that.
[00:12:05] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. I mean, growing up, I'm in a pretty liberal area, but there was one out gay kid in high school, you know, and I didn't come out until I was in my twenties. And so, like, you know, to get to see these, these kids, especially, like, in my profession, I see younger and younger, they're coming out and they're, they're just, it's just so normal. They'll be like, oh, yeah, I have a crush on so and so. And it's like, oh, okay. And who is so and so. And then, you know, the acceptance of, you know, pronouns and gender and sexuality, and it just seems to be much more accepted in such a younger age. And so, you know, I'm glad to see that maybe, well, there's hope. You know, we don't have to worry about beloved childhood act, you know, writers who want to ruin their platform by being transphobic, which we won't name here.
[00:12:48] Speaker C: But, oh, good Lord.
[00:12:51] Speaker A: But you know, that, that we are growing. Hopefully, as, as young kids, our society will change as well. Um, and, of course, one of the, one of the bad things that this is for, this is for Uzi. We have to take a moment of silence for our lost queer media, which is the black flag. Yeah, our flag.
[00:13:14] Speaker C: Yeah, I know. I mean, I'm, I was upset about. I'm not as upset about it because I think that to a certain extent, it's like we told a story. It was what it needed to be, you know? I think it was, yeah.
I mean, I've made my peace with it.
[00:13:34] Speaker A: That's all we can do sometimes, is that we just have to at least, at least the character wasn't killed off in a, you know, our queer character wasn't killed off in a show in a horrible way. The show ended.
[00:13:45] Speaker C: Every single character in it is queer. So it's like, I think that a lot of media is like, like, if you're having, like, if there's an interview with the vampire situation, if characters killed off, it's not like you're killing your one gay character because every other character is Osel gay, 100%.
But, yeah, I dont know.
Ive made peace with it. Theres other shows.
[00:14:09] Speaker A: Thats fine, thats okay. Thats okay. So then, before we get into what weve consumed this year, I thought of this question because of something Cam actually said about reading more of his queer media than maybe watching television shows. What is our preferred way to consume our media nowadays? Do you think that it's changed over the past year or so of our lives? I've noticed for myself I have gotten a lot more into reading, and I think that I've been buying a lot more of those queer stories or in trying to find more unique stories in that way.
But I also am a big, firm believer that television and movies are fantastic, and so I do watch a lot of those, and I am glad to see that we're getting representation on that as well.
But how about for you? I see. What are you feeling? What's your way of consuming media?
[00:15:03] Speaker C: I have always been a bit of a scavenger there. I just sort of. Whatever is interesting, I will watch it, I will read it. That's why I'm always behind on everything, because I'm trying to keep up to date across all forms of storytelling, for sure. I'm trying to catch up on all the animated shows and all the video games and all the comics and all the shows and all the movies.
So I'm very much taken a little bit here and there.
And also, I tend to be attracted to stuff that's already queer. So sometimes it's not like I start something, I go, oh, there's gay people in this crazy. I start it because I know that there's gay people in the next crazy.
[00:15:44] Speaker A: You're just scrolling through Tumblr and, like, soon as you see a post, you're like, star that. We're coming back to that later.
Is Tumblr still a thing?
[00:15:53] Speaker C: Yes, and unfortunately it is. The good thing is that, you know, everyone on there is queer. First of all, there's not straight people on Tumblr. And Oslo is one of the few websites that doesn't really have an algorithm in the same way. There is a for you page now, which is weird, but it's very much still. You look at a tag, there's all this stuff there. You're not really being sold anything they've tried. It is. You cannot market to Tumblr. It's just gay communists.
[00:16:22] Speaker A: If there's going to be a. If there's going to be a website for gay communists, it's going to be Tumblr.
[00:16:26] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:16:29] Speaker A: Tam, what about you? I know you mentioned you read a lot. Is that what your main form of media?
[00:16:35] Speaker B: I'd say it's a bit of a mix as well. I've sort of read a lot of. It's really easy to go into a bookshop now, and they will have a gay section, like I've noticed in a lot of bookshops. That's what they have now. That's really easy to, like, get into and read and stuff. But, yeah, I mean, I've not watched too much stuff. Like, I'm not caught up with Heartstopper, like, you know, shoot me or whatever. I feel like, well, I want to watch season one. I was in a relationship, and then season two, I think, would make me depressed, because I'm not now. So.
[00:17:07] Speaker C: Sorry.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: But season?
Yeah, but, yeah, no, I have. And then, obviously, there's, like, been a few bits here and there, like, obviously, doctor who had its most gay episode, I think, in existence just the other day, so.
[00:17:23] Speaker A: And I haven't watched it.
[00:17:25] Speaker B: Oh, no.
[00:17:26] Speaker C: I've gained so many TikTok edits of it.
[00:17:28] Speaker B: It's just. Yeah, there's. There's, like, Kylie in it. There's not, like, the actress, the music, but, yeah, it's very, very good, that one. I enjoyed that. But, yeah, so it's sort of been a mixture. But there has been a lot of books as well, which has been nice this year because I have got back into reading.
[00:17:46] Speaker A: It's the year of reading, I'm telling you. There's just something about it.
And just know the nice thing about media as well. I went through the same thing when I went through a breakup. I was in the middle of watching all the defender shows on Netflix, and I did not go back to them until recently. One day, you're going to claim that back, and they're going to be waiting there for you. So heartstoppers isn't going anywhere but to continue being friends. You do have to watch it eventually, otherwise I will be disappointed.
[00:18:14] Speaker B: It's on the list. It's on the list.
[00:18:16] Speaker C: Nice.
[00:18:16] Speaker A: That was, I don't think, last time we did the podcast, I had watched it yet, I think. Or I just watched it, but I had watched it. Okay. It became like a revolution. It is one of my shows that whenever I, like, just need something on television, I turn that on that or WandaVision, for some reason. Those two, I can just. I can see that interchange them same.
[00:18:35] Speaker C: I have since. I remember you guys told me last time I had to watch WandaVision. I have watched it. It is good.
[00:18:42] Speaker A: It's so comforting. I don't know what it is.
[00:18:44] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I think sometimes you need shows to have on that are just, like, comforting. And I think Heartstopper really fulfills that for a lot of people. I told you guys when we were planning for this podcast that I was babysitting a kid the other day. He's young and he's queer, but he also has this thing where he, like, his family's very supportive, but he's still finds the community a little cringy. And I'm like, buddy, you're not going to be one of the acceptable gays. You just got to have to. You just have to accept yourself where you're at. And so, you know, he had his allotted tv time, and he kept pretending like he was watching, like, a superhero show, and then he kept changing it to heartstopper when he thought I wasn't looking. And I was like. And then I was like, no, it's okay. Like, I've seen that show. I like that show. Please put it on. And he was like, oh, okay. And he just seemed like. It was so sweet, you know? I was like, no, you don't have to be embarrassed. Watch your. Watch the queer show.
[00:19:37] Speaker A: Absolutely. And that show just has so much representation of every kind that, like, we love it. We love it. Um, so, eventually, Cam, you got to go back and watch it.
[00:19:48] Speaker B: But, like, yes. Yeah, yeah.
[00:19:50] Speaker A: Um, okay, so this is where I'm gonna go ahead and put the spoiler warning. If you haven't watched most of the queer media of this year, you're gonna want to stop. I mean, we're funny to listen to.
[00:20:00] Speaker C: But, like, getting into it.
[00:20:02] Speaker A: I know the first one on the list. I know for a fact. I'm just going to give you the podium.
So spoilers just turn away now if you don't.
[00:20:15] Speaker C: I didn't experience queer media this year. Queer media this year experienced me.
So I hear. What are we. Are we bringing up the first on the list? Are we talking about challengers?
[00:20:27] Speaker A: I put it on the list because I figured that I need to give you the most time for that one.
[00:20:31] Speaker C: If we don't reach it, I will try my darndest to be succinct. But listen, I don't know what. I don't know what sexuality. I walked into this movie with. I did walk out bisexual. I don't know if that will last, but that's where we're at. And it is purely because of this movie. I have not seen a movie that is so, like, everyone in their mother is talking about this movie right now, at least in my life. People keep. It's in the conversation. People are like, have you seen challengers? I saw it with both of my parents. Like, it's crazy. Although it's not a movie to see with your parents. I should. No, I should say that.
[00:21:12] Speaker A: So I shouldn't take my mom to this.
[00:21:14] Speaker C: Probably not. I would say so.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: Perfect. Perfect.
[00:21:18] Speaker C: That being said, it's, like, such a bisexual movie. It's about. I mean, it's a love triangle, but it's a love triangle where all the corners touch, you know? And there's kind of a polyamorous energy in the film, too. It's this. It's great. And the fact that I keep seeing everyone talk about it is just something I haven't had before, because I feel like. I feel like Zendaya being in it brought a big, like, touchstone for people where they're like, of course I'm gonna watch it. Zendaya is in it.
And so many people are just checking this film out, and it's just so.
I don't know. I haven't seen a film that is that bisexual long time.
And it's just so cool that it's something that everybody is talking about. I mean, we sort of had this kind of last year with Saltburn, which weird movie, but very gay, where everyone was watching it, probably mostly because it was weird and less because it was gay, but just people who I don't see seeking out queer media a lot. We're still talking about it in a way that I haven't come to expect. And I'm having sort of a similar thing with challengers right now where, like, everyone, my middle aged coworkers who are incredibly heterosexual, are being like, have you seen that challengers movie? It's great. The score's amazing. I hope it wins an Oscar. And I'm like, ah, I do too.
[00:22:47] Speaker A: Pam, was your experience with this film the same because you said you saw this?
[00:22:50] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. Yeah, it was me in the cinema that was. I think I was one of the only guys in the cinema. There was me and loads of girls and, like, a group of old women who, when I kept looking over, were having the time of their lives. I think this is the film for, like, I actually did come out and I was like, maybe I am bisexual.
It was. It's definitely like a. Like, you were just racy film. Like, so racy in so many ways. And I loved absolutely every second.
[00:23:21] Speaker A: What's crazy to me. It's. What's crazy to me is that I've. I had that questioning of, am I bisexual this year? And I haven't seen this film. And now I'm like, do I need to see this film?
[00:23:30] Speaker C: Because you need to see this film. No.
[00:23:32] Speaker B: You will also question more.
[00:23:33] Speaker C: You will question, listen, this film made me maybe be attracted to guys we don't know.
[00:23:40] Speaker A: There's a heavy stake.
[00:23:41] Speaker C: This is the one. This is the one slightly spoiler thing I will give, because you haven't seen it. You really just experience it. Just experience it. But there's a shot close to the beginning where it's one of the guys and he's in bed and he's just, like, mostly naked. And then it immediately cuts to Zendaya. Oh, so mostly naked already, like, five minutes into the film, I am bisexual.
[00:24:04] Speaker B: The guy's in his little tighty whiteies.
[00:24:06] Speaker C: And.
[00:24:06] Speaker B: Yeah, there was a slight. Yeah, yeah.
[00:24:09] Speaker C: And it just gets worse, and it just continues for the rest of the.
[00:24:13] Speaker A: Cinema, they started off strong and they were like, you guys need to know what we're doing and be okay.
[00:24:19] Speaker C: Which is crazy because I saw so many reviews where, where it kept being like, and you know what? This film is kind of maybe saying that maybe the two guys are also kind of maybe interested in each other as well. There is a tight close up of them locking lips. I don't know what you mean. Maybe.
I don't know how we got to maybe.
[00:24:40] Speaker A: But again, I haven't seen this and I do not care if I get spoiler. I'm hosting this podcast. I know it's gonna happen, but from what I heard, it actually doesn't. The ending is not quite so ambiguous that there is a lot of queerness in the end. Correct?
[00:24:54] Speaker C: It's okay. Here's the thing. I have my specific I will go to war for my interpretation of this movie. And I have, I watched it on streaming with my friend the other day and I paused it every 3 seconds to analyze something else. I have looked at all of, I've watched all the actor interviews, I've read the original script. I went crazy for the filmmaking of this movie. I know what I believe was intended at the ending of the film, which is incredibly queer. I don't think there's a lot of ways to interpret it that aren't queer.
I interpreted it again, I'm not going to tell you what happens. I interpreted it as implying that the three of them all got together at the end.
You can interpret it in different ways. That's how I thought it was.
Some people took different things away from it, but I have basically never seen anybody interpret it completely heterosexually. There's just not really a way to do that.
[00:25:46] Speaker B: No. Like they make it pretty clear that even at the start of the film that those two guys definitely have a history.
[00:25:54] Speaker C: Oh, they make it clear. When I watched it with my dad, we like see a shot of the two of them together and my dad.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: Immediately just went, oh yeah, you'll do a lot of that in the film.
[00:26:07] Speaker A: There's no hiding it.
[00:26:10] Speaker C: No, not at all. Which another thing that I find really interesting is that when I'm talking with a bunch of people and seeing everybody's reaction to it, basically everyone I know who's talking about this film thinks it's a very well made movie, but every woman and queer person I know will be like, and it's also a sexy movie. I know a couple of straight guys who were like. And I was uncomfortable the whole time and they thought that that was, like, intended. They were like, it's great. I was just, like, stressed out and uncomfortable, and it felt awkward. And I'm like, how did we have such. I mean, they liked the movie, but we had such a different experience. And I think part of it is that the guys are way more sexualized than the woman in it. You know, that's part of it.
And I don't think a lot of straight guys know how to handle that. So they just found it uncomfortable. Instead, they were like, undeniably, this is great filmmaking.
[00:27:01] Speaker B: If anything, it's like a female gaze film. Like, it's a very female. Yeah.
[00:27:07] Speaker C: I mean, to a certain extent, it is kind of about literal, like her being kind of, to be honest.
[00:27:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:27:14] Speaker C: Which is crazy. It's crazy. Watch this movie. It's crazy.
[00:27:18] Speaker A: I was just going to say, it's funny that you say that, because with going off what you said, kind of comparing this to Saltburn, which has fell into the year, this year of pride, I got to see that early in a packed theater, and that was very good. Lord, I did take a brand new friend that I hadn't really known for that long to that film, not knowing what it was, what a talent, friendship that is. Yeah, we're not friends anymore.
[00:27:50] Speaker B: Locked in for life after that film. Or, like, you'll never speak again.
[00:27:54] Speaker A: No. Especially when we got to the one scene, but the one scene, which.
[00:27:58] Speaker C: So many scenes.
[00:28:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, we talking. We're talking the bathtub or the grave?
[00:28:03] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:28:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:04] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:28:05] Speaker C: To be honest, yes.
[00:28:08] Speaker A: The funny story really quick about the bathtub scene is that when we got there, there was, like, a little party going on for the film, and they were giving out the little tubs of the bathtub, but weren't explaining what they were. They were like. They were actually a drink. It was like, very, like, murky water.
And everyone's like, oh, my God, this tastes so good. And then we got in there and we got to that scene. Everyone was like, oh, no, that's that scene specifically. The gays loved logical warfare. Yeah. The gays loved that scene, though. They were literally like, oh, my God, that is so sexy. And I was like, excuse me, why is that sexy?
[00:28:40] Speaker C: Oh, the variation in reaction. This movie, more than anything, will tell you who amongst your friends is a freak. I will tell you that. And I say that with love and care. But the differences in my friends who watched that movie and were like, oh. Versus the ones who were like, yeah, yeah, it was crazy.
[00:29:00] Speaker A: Absolutely. And with that film, though, too, is, I think, what I. From what you guys are saying about challenger, I like a little bit more. Is that it? Saltburn does walk back the queerness a little bit at the end because he was just like, oh, I was doing it to get what I wanted, not necessarily feelings that felt like a walk back of like, dude, you fucked a grave. Like, you fucked a grave.
[00:29:22] Speaker C: Which, by the way, that actor, like, improvised.
[00:29:25] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:29:26] Speaker C: I'm sorry. Imagine you're in the crew, and then this guy just, like, takes his mound of earth.
Good lord.
[00:29:37] Speaker A: Yeah, they're just the guy standing there with the camera. He's like, do I look? Do I stop?
[00:29:40] Speaker B: And the dark. And that scene goes on for a few minutes. So they must have just kept the cameras going continuous.
[00:29:49] Speaker C: That was psychological warfare to me.
[00:29:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
I'm so sorry.
[00:29:54] Speaker C: Yeah, no, but, yeah, I agree. It's like, it kind of walks it back a little bit because, I mean, he has sex with basically everyone in that movie, but then it's. It's kind of. I mean, it's still queer because you can't have a male character, have sex with a male character and be like, it's a heterosexual situation. Even though the show the politician a few years ago did try to do that.
You can't succeed, but you can try.
And this. No, this movie, challengers does not do that. If anything, they're like. And it was gayer than you thought it was.
So it's a good time. I mean, it.
He's never gonna make something that isn't at least a little fruity.
[00:30:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:40] Speaker A: Do you think that's one of the reasons why the box office suffered a little bit at the beginning there was. Because it was so gay.
[00:30:46] Speaker C: I think the box office suffering is for a multitude of reasons right now. I think it says a lot about the industry in general and the fact that a lot of people just don't have money to go to the movies.
[00:30:56] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:30:57] Speaker C: But the movie wasn't advertised as gay. The movie was advertised as the Zendaya threesome movie.
[00:31:03] Speaker B: Yeah. And honestly, with tennis.
[00:31:06] Speaker C: Featuring tennis.
[00:31:07] Speaker B: Featuring tennis, which actually.
[00:31:09] Speaker C: I mean, it's a lot more Tennessee than I thought, but in a great way, actually. It's fantastic. Tennis, which is. I never thought I would say that tennis is a sexy sport. Good Lord. I do believe tennis is a sexy sport. Forgive me.
You know what? Whatever will get people off of pickleball. But.
[00:31:27] Speaker A: You'Re like, get rid of pickleball.
[00:31:29] Speaker C: I saw one letterbox review that was, like, to quote Oscar Wilde, everything is about sex except for sex, which is about tennis. And that is the plot of the movie. But, um, I don't think a lot of people went in expecting it to be a queer movie. I actually think that in this case, the queerness helped because it made it more interesting as a love triangle, because there's actually a lot of people who I know who, again, not necessarily queer, who I was like, it's a tennis love triangle movie. And they went, but I'm so sick of love triangles. And I went, no, no, no. Look at me. It's a tennis love triangle movie. And they were immediately like, oh, that's more interesting, because I think a lot of people are just kind of bored of the dynamic of two people who hate each other, fighting over one person. It's way more.
[00:32:13] Speaker B: It wouldn't have been as good.
[00:32:14] Speaker C: Exactly. It's way more interesting if everybody's, in whatever way, invested in each other. So I actually think that that helped, which I wouldn't expect outside of 2024. You know, I think we've gotten to a point where it's like, that is something that will just get people to the movies now who aren't just queer, which is crazy.
[00:32:36] Speaker B: It's like when they advertise musicals as not being musicals, like, you know, because they think people aren't gonna go to the cinema.
[00:32:44] Speaker A: Girls.
[00:32:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:46] Speaker C: Oh, God. Listen, I love Renee rap, but that was not a great adaptation.
[00:32:52] Speaker A: The thing that's interesting about challengers, that I really wanted to see it when I first saw the trailer, but I kept telling, like, my mom and my friends, I was like, we have to go see this, because it looks like such a great psychological thriller, and it kind of is.
[00:33:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:06] Speaker A: Which I think is what they wanted to, like, aim for. And then when the reviews came out that weekend, I remember I was sitting there. It was like, midnight. My dog was outside using the bathroom. I'm scrolling through my phone, and it was just like, gay, gay. And I was like, what the. When did this happen? When did this happen? How did I miss this?
[00:33:21] Speaker C: Listen, Zendaya wants the twins to kiss. Well, they're not twinks. We're losing the gay lexicon. Um, they are.
[00:33:28] Speaker B: I say they are.
[00:33:31] Speaker C: One of them is an odder, I.
[00:33:32] Speaker B: Believe the other one. Yeah.
[00:33:35] Speaker A: And they're probably old enough to. One of them is probably a twunk. Just a little bit.
[00:33:38] Speaker C: No. One of them is definitely a twunk. One of them is for sure a twunk. Um, we're losing the art of the gay lexicon. We're calling everyone twilly nilly these days. We can't go about saying this anyway. Um, but no, it was queer in a way that they don't sets you up for when you start the film. It just sets it up like these two guys in a tennis match fighting for this girl's attention. And then what makes it interesting is that the guys are equally invested in each other and it becomes this thing where, again, way more interesting. It's not the fight to get the girl, it's the fight to be included. It's the fight that the two people you care about most in the world are going to choose each other over you and you can't let that happen. That's way more interesting than this girl I love is with this guy I hate. Instead, it's, I have two people who I care about. I have these two people who I, my whole life revolves around and I don't want them to leave me behind. That's great. That's way more cinematic. That's tennis, baby.
[00:34:39] Speaker A: Which I feel like, granted, maybe this is just my people and around here, but I feel like that's a very universal almost story for queer individuals. Just feeling left out when the straight friends start to date.
[00:34:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:34:53] Speaker C: Oh, oh. Because part of it is that I think one of the reasons why I've, again, I've seen talk with straight people talk about this. I'm sorry to yap on so much about this, but they realize that it's queer a little bit later than I would expect a lot of the time. Because I saw that one shot where we go back in time and we see the two guys playing doubles tennis and they win and they just sort of tackle each other and it's like.
[00:35:17] Speaker B: Oh, I mean, that is where it started for me. I was like, oh, it's that kind of fill.
[00:35:22] Speaker C: Exactly. But also every single queer person I know who talked to, who I talked to about this, that was immediately clockable as like, that very specific type of queer codependent friendship that you have growing up that, like, either you know about had or somebody you knew had, where it's you, neither of you will acknowledge what it is, but you grow up and you have it. And then one day, one of you gets your first serious girlfriend or boyfriend or person of the opposite gender and you're like, why am I so upset about this? And it builds into a thing, and then you have an inexplicable falling out that you don't think about for, you're like, why was that so intense? And then later on, you're going to look back and you're like, oh, that was my first serious breakup. Like, within seconds, every queer person I.
[00:36:01] Speaker A: Know flocks that, oh, I'm getting war flashbacks over here. I wasn't expecting therapy.
[00:36:07] Speaker C: I know, I know, I know. It's crazy. And so that's, like, the relationship between these two guys in it. And then also, they are very invested in this woman as well. And this is very.
And it's contagious, unfortunately. Like, not to say that, like, listen, I don't think that anything can turn anyone gay, but maybe that film count, but maybe this film is the first experiment.
[00:36:34] Speaker A: They're trying to do some psychological tests to see if, like, can we just. Can we make both ends of the spectrum just a little bit more in the middle?
[00:36:40] Speaker C: Just a little bit more. Listen, I was already sold on Zendaya and a tennis skirt, but apparently, maybe men can be attractive. Who's to say?
[00:36:49] Speaker A: Who's to say? But then you get their personalities in there, and it's all bets are skiers. From. From our bisexual love of challengers to the very gay realism of dead boy detectives, which has been a phenomenon in and of itself, especially in the cosmic circus.
If I don't mention this one, I know Lizzie will probably fire me. Not really. But this is one that she's been a very big challenger about.
I loved it. It's one of my. It's one of my favorite shows of the year. And it's just also incredibly gay across the board. There's just so much gayness going on in the show.
Have either of you seen this one?
[00:37:31] Speaker B: I have not.
[00:37:32] Speaker C: TikTok edits goin ham.
[00:37:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I've seen people talk about it on Twitter. So I know there's a lot of gay, but.
[00:37:44] Speaker C: I was just gonna say I was told a little bit how gay it was. And then I keep getting surprised by how much gayer it seems to be than the little bit that was advertised to me.
[00:37:54] Speaker A: Yeah, there's a lot of, like. So there is definitely some allusions to, like, bisexuality a little bit to, you know, you know, female. Female love. But episode seven, I will just say this. It was 02:00 in the morning. I had the screeners. I had to finish it up for the next day to write it up. And I was sitting there on my couch, just, like, losing my mind, just crying because they do.
They do the queer storyline so well in that episode.
And I don't want to spoil if you guys are going to watch it, but, like, it's really, really. Okay, good. And it's very real.
[00:38:34] Speaker C: See, this is what I mean. That's all you have to say about watch the show?
[00:38:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm there. I'm hooked in now.
[00:38:40] Speaker C: Apparently, it's a Neil Gaiman thing, too. I didn't. Yes, they did lead with that.
[00:38:44] Speaker B: Oh, well, no. Explains a lot.
[00:38:46] Speaker C: Yeah, I know that explains a lot.
[00:38:49] Speaker A: It's connected to the Sandman show, if you guys have watched that.
[00:38:52] Speaker B: Yes, I have not seen that either.
[00:38:55] Speaker C: Okay, man. Show.
[00:38:58] Speaker A: So you have homework, fun, funny story. Don't worry, Cam. I have not seen the standman show either. And I watched that show and was at two groups.
[00:39:08] Speaker C: Oh, my goodness. Betrayal on all sides.
[00:39:11] Speaker A: I'm sorry. There were. There's two characters from the show that show up, and I was just, like, one of them. I know, because they made a big deal about it. And the other one I wasn't supposed to talk about, like, so was it.
[00:39:24] Speaker C: Well, I think I know who it is. I don't know if it's going to be a spoiler, but I did see. Is it desire? Did desire show up at all?
[00:39:31] Speaker A: No, no, no.
So death does show up?
[00:39:36] Speaker C: No, I was thinking about somebody else. Okay. Because desire is a cool, non binary character, and I like that.
[00:39:42] Speaker A: As I say. Are you talking about Mason? I love Mason.
[00:39:44] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's also. I love any single time a piece of media takes something, again, like a character that is meant to embody something like desire or love and then makes them kind of trans or non binary or gender fluid in a way, or obviously queer because they're meant to encapsulate all of this stuff. It's not just meant to be one type of desire. It's the concept of desire.
And so I think that's a really cool character that they cast, a non binary actor, and they have it as a non binary role.
So I don't know if they show up in dead boy detectives. I know probably other people do, but.
[00:40:24] Speaker A: No, no, I think part of it was that they were filming Quantum Leap as well, because they're a main cast member of that show.
[00:40:32] Speaker C: And you know what? I love to see them booked and busy. Go crazy.
[00:40:36] Speaker A: Right. And I will say their character on the. On Quantum Leap is also non binary. So, like, they. And there's definitely. There's moments of it, and it gets a little more queer as the show went on. It did get canceled after season two.
[00:40:48] Speaker C: Of course it did.
[00:40:50] Speaker A: Yeah, it really sucks.
But another moment of silence.
But, you know, so I will just say this, that both of you should definitely watch dead boy detectives when you get to episode seven. And you are probably not crying like I was. But when you get there, there's going to be a moment that never says ever.
Well, I think that there's a really real moment. I think I can say this and it's not going to spoil anything too much, but when you have that moment of you have your straight friend that maybe you have feelings for and you finally say something and you afraid you're gonna lose it all, and then for a lot of us, we probably did, you know, especially when we were younger and, and you don't in the show, you. It's very normalized of like, you're allowed to have feelings and we can figure this out, but right now we need to go save the world kind of thing. So it's. It's a very beautiful moment and it's something that really touched me. And I was glad to see that they, that they kept that because apparently it's not as explicit in the comic books. My sister read it for the website and she was like, yeah, you wouldn't really know that. Like, they hint and allude to him being gay, but they don't ever actually address it in that way.
[00:42:00] Speaker C: Something that I've seen a lot and any sort of, like, reboot or adaptation that's happening lately is that there's a lot of queer coded characters who lately, if something does get picked up again, are now just explicitly queer.
Because I guess that you just have to hint at it before and now it's like, no, this is a storyline that we can explore, which is cool.
Okay. I'll have to check it out. I mean, it seemed I was already. I was already with it, but that sold me. You just have to be like, hey, it's gay, and it'll make you sad. Maybe I'm there.
[00:42:32] Speaker A: I mean, isn't that most of it? Like, let's look at interview with a vampire. I don't know if you guys have been watching season two, but, like, it also just makes you sad.
[00:42:39] Speaker C: Yeah, but no, but that makes you sad in, like, a fun, operatic camp way, you know, or not necessarily camp, but like, you know. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's just like, I'm sad in a way where it's like I watching an epic story unfold, it's not necessarily in the same, like, interpersonal way that I get with other things where I'm like, and I've lived that I have never been a vampire. Watching, like, my vampire daughter die in front of it, like, that's never happened to me.
[00:43:09] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. You know, have they have, have they reached that part of the show?
[00:43:16] Speaker C: Oh, they're getting there. You know, I've seen the original movies. Yeah, I know what will occur. Oh, God. Claudia. Claudia, my beloved. I'm so sad for her all the time.
But one thing I really do like about that show is that it's just, I love it when they're like, hey, what if we were gay and awful.
Love it when characters are freaks.
I'm glad that we've reached a point where you don't. It's not. I don't know how to describe this. You can have a morally complex queer character in something, and it doesn't have to be a homophobic, like, yeah, all gay people are like this, and it also doesn't have to be. And this is the queer character, and they've never made any mistakes because they have to be the one good piece of queer representation that we get right. Instead, it can just be a weird show of messy, operatic, gay vampires doing terrible things to each other. And it's great.
[00:44:11] Speaker A: They are awful.
[00:44:13] Speaker C: They are terrible. It's great.
[00:44:17] Speaker A: I'm trying to be making sure I'm being very careful. I've seen the whole season, too. I saw it before season two came out.
[00:44:24] Speaker C: Oh, I'm so jealous.
[00:44:27] Speaker A: And I remember being like, God, they are so awful this season. And the thing about the movie is back in the day when, of course, it wasn't quite outwardly that they were, they were gay, but they weren't quite out with it.
[00:44:41] Speaker C: There was vibes. There was vibes cinematography and the film of it. Yeah, and the cinematography is just like them looking sad and longing and homosexual.
[00:44:51] Speaker A: At each other and sharing a coffin. Come on, we all know what. Let's be all know what that means.
But they don't try to make Lewis the hero, necessarily of this story. Like, he's also very open about how awful he is.
[00:45:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
And great move to put more people of color in the, in the reboot, too. It's just, I mean, first of all, Louis originally as being a slave owner, not great. And so in this, when they're just like, what if instead we make him a black man and explore that, right? That's so much better. But it's also just like, the fact that he and Armand in this are men of color is just, I find it way more intriguing and appealing as a queer story when it's also not just about white people. So I think that that's really important, too, especially, again, the fact that they get to be messy and the fact that they are queer. People of color gets to be part of it.
[00:45:48] Speaker A: Right.
I'll agree with you. I think that, like, I was just talking about this with somebody else about, you know, we are making the strides for, like, for gay people and lesbians and, you know, transgender and I'm binary. And then, like. But of those subgroups, a lot of the time, BIPOC individuals are forgotten. And, you know, and we're not talking about the. The people of color in that community because most of the media is white and so getting to see that. And I think this is where doctor who comes in, too. Doctor who is very gay right now, but he's also, you know, he's not. Yeah, they're non binary, I'm pretty sure. I think they he, him. They them, I think is his preferred. But, um, correct me if I'm wrong. I'll look that up in a second. But, um, the doctor is very gay.
[00:46:39] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:39] Speaker A: Like, very gay. Yeah. I think Cam can speak on this as well because he's seen the most recent episodes, but, like, um, it got very gay. Like, it's even, like, alluded to.
[00:46:49] Speaker B: It's like, no, there is like, kiss.
Big gay kiss. In the episode brought to us by the lovely Katie Herron. Kate Herron, who did Loki because she was hired because Russell Davis complained about the lack of bisexuality in the Loki show. So she ended up writing the most sort of gay Doctor who episode ever. So we love that.
[00:47:16] Speaker C: That's fantastic.
[00:47:20] Speaker A: I just, just want to say, apparently it is they them, so.
But they also. The article also uses he, so apparently CBC. What's going on here? No, but there is. I noticed that this season with Doctor who, there was. I think it actually began with the specials. I think I was just like, wow, this is really. This is really gay. And, like, there's just a lot of gay vibes going on. And I was loving it. I remember I was in New York watching it and I was just like, this is so gay. And then it just keeps getting gayer. And even like, Ruby, who is bisexual, and it's just a normalized part of the story. And I'm just like, this is great to see that this media that's been around for 60 years is finally embracing change.
[00:48:03] Speaker C: Yeah, that's fantastic. I mean, wasn't there, I mean, I grew up watching Doctor who, but it was also, like, it's faded in my memory to a certain extent. There's that one guy.
Isn't he like, bisexual Jack Harkness?
[00:48:18] Speaker B: Yeah, that is also one of, like, 2005. There was also a gay kiss.
[00:48:23] Speaker C: Yeah. Which is crazy.
[00:48:24] Speaker B: But the doctor wasn't, like, gay back.
[00:48:27] Speaker C: Then, so it's really cool to see that, like, come back and be way more, like, explicit.
[00:48:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:48:33] Speaker C: Because I feel like that's been a part of Doctor who's legacy for a while. And so I love that they are really, like, committing to that, you know?
[00:48:42] Speaker A: And I feel like it's about time we, the show, the showrunner is gay. Like, come on, ring the gay.
[00:48:48] Speaker C: Bring the gay, go forth and be homosexual.
[00:48:53] Speaker A: But going from one galaxy to another, we're gonna. We're gonna go to Cam's corner over here because you are our Star wars person.
[00:49:02] Speaker B: Yes. 90% of my articles on the website, but.
[00:49:06] Speaker A: And we love it because we need that.
How is. How is the gayover in a galaxy far, far away?
[00:49:16] Speaker B: Not really there in tv, I have to admit. I mean, it is going to be. I think the acolyte is out now at the moment. And in one of the episodes, the two main characters are, like, twins. They have lesbian parents.
So I think we're going to see that explored in the next episode, which, of course, in the Star wars fandom has gone down like an absolute dumpster fire because half of the fandom is, well, not half, like, a really vocal minority are just horrible, horrible people. But where I'm most loving it at the moment is the books, especially the high Republic. There is a wonderful, just amazing group of authors from all different backgrounds. Some of them are, you know, lgbt and all of that. And it's just there in the books, like, there's a red, there's escape from Valor, which is like a children's book, like, for sort of, like, young teens to read that's just like this. It's got, like, this whole. The main character realizing, like, he's gay for his best friend and everything, and all the other characters know that he is, but he has to figure it out himself. And it's just. Yes, I'm absolutely loving, like, all of that at the moment. I think it's one of the best, sort of areas for Star wars to explore sexuality in that way. Like, there has been a lot of characters in the books, like, from the films that have ended up sort of gay. Like, got Tarkin, you've got Obi Wan who's bi. You've got other people, you know.
[00:50:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I did not know that Obi Wan is bi.
[00:50:48] Speaker C: I'm sorry. You cannot just drop, what, a year for bisexuality is what I am learning is.
[00:50:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
So Star wars books are the way to go, baby.
[00:50:59] Speaker C: Step walk me through Obi Wan's latent bisexuality hit.
[00:51:03] Speaker B: So there's a book called. Hang on, I need to double check the name Padawan. Yes. That is.
[00:51:09] Speaker A: He's like, let me pull out the bookmark. I have to.
[00:51:11] Speaker C: The exact receipts. Let's pull out the sources.
[00:51:15] Speaker B: So he's like, in the Jedi temple when he. Obi Wan is a Padawan. So he's like, probably about 1314. And then he has a crush on one of the guys. It's just dropped in, you know, so he's by. Let's go. So there we go.
Yeah. So Star wars books are just. If you want gay media in Star wars, just read the books. That's all I'll say.
[00:51:41] Speaker A: I mean, let's be honest. It's probably Ewan McGregor sitting back there being like, you guys need to make him buy as soon as possible.
[00:51:48] Speaker C: Oh, man. See, I have such a love hate relationship with that because on one hand, I love the fact that it's so queer in the books, and on the other hand, I hate that. It's weird.
[00:51:58] Speaker B: Like, yeah, they've got a long way to go with these shows and everything. Obviously, it's still the fans that are doing all the hard work. Like Ahsoka, you had Sabine, and. Oh, my God, I've forgotten what she's called. Shiny. They obviously sort of look at each other like a lot of the times, longingly. So the fans went crazy for them too.
[00:52:20] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:52:21] Speaker B: So who knows if they'll end up with something in season two of Ahsoka, but I won't keep my. I'll keep my fingers crossed. That's all I say.
[00:52:29] Speaker A: But I was gonna say, in the 7th season of Clone wars, the one that was on Disney, wasn't there almost a relationship with Ahsoka and another female character?
[00:52:41] Speaker B: Yes.
Originally, when they did the old episodes, it was like Ahsoka and a man. I think it's with the Martes sisters. I don't know if you've watched the Clone wars, but then I think they scrapped it when they swapped it to girls so we could have had Ahsoka, but they seem to do a lot of scrapping, unfortunately. So I feel like that's such a.
[00:53:03] Speaker C: Thing when it comes to queer media, that thankfully, things are getting more and more explicit. But, I mean, I remember growing up where a media would be, a piece of media would be canonically queer in whatever way, or it'd be, like, a franchise where it's queer in one part of it, but because you have to go searching for it. If ever I say that, people look at you like you're crazy. So you have to write, like, an MLA format, 20 page, one single space essay to explain to people why it's queer. Because it is. And it was just infuriating. For so much of my life, I'd have to sit people down and be like, look at me. I know that these two women only look at each other once in the show, but if you read the spin off book, spin off of the comic, there is one scene where they touch hands, and the writer did say in an interview that they were implying that they were making a romantic.
[00:53:52] Speaker B: That is literally what it's like at the moment.
[00:53:56] Speaker C: So I feel like we're sort of moving away from that. But there's obviously, with these really big franchises, they don't want to take risks like that all the time.
[00:54:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I was thinking. I was thinking in my head when you were mentioning that, I was like, yeah. One of the things that people. I heard her dissertations about, it was the. The scene in the marvels between Captain Marvel, Valkyrie, that, like, is queer, you know, coded, but it's really not, you know.
[00:54:20] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, no, it's. I mean, that's the thing. It's queer coded because I'm a crazy person. So, like, I see two people on screen together, and I'm like, I could make something out of this. I can do that. I do the work in my head. I mean, I think that's part of it. Is that part of queer media for so long was that there's, like, this unspoken, oh, the rest of this exists in your head. It exists into what you can make it into.
And so, I mean, that's what fan. That's what so much of fanfiction came off of. I mean, modern day western fan fiction came off of that one Star Trek episode in 1990 called Amok Time, where, like, it was mostly, I think, housewives who were watching that episode and went, no, there's something happening there. And then they wrote fanfiction about it, and that's how we got to today. Right. And so that's why so much of fanfiction is inherently queer.
And so I think that there's so much of just hinting at something and then just trusting queer fans to make the rest of it up in their head.
So it's nice that we're moving to a place that's a little bit more explicit. I'd like it to be faster, but it's getting there.
[00:55:29] Speaker A: I mean, I remember being young, seeing Lord of the Rings in theaters and definitely not maybe having the language or definitely being like, there's something going on between Sam and Frodo. And then at the end, Sam marries. Yeah. And Sam, Mary's a girl. And I, like, remember looking over like, this doesn't seem right.
[00:55:45] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. And the actor who played Sam has said in interviews, there's one specific clip that will go viral. Like, once a year, I went viral on my section of the Internet where somebody, he'll be like, you know, fans will come up to me sometimes, and they'll be like, sam and Frodo should have kissed. And I'll be like, how do you know they didn't? You know? And I'm like, talk your shit.
So he's a very big proponent of.
[00:56:10] Speaker A: That, which is always as they should, because there was definitely some queer coding there.
[00:56:16] Speaker C: Let's be serious. Absolutely, man. Another unwritten, tragic gay love story for the ages.
[00:56:25] Speaker A: 100%. I mean, I think that there's definitely some interesting changes, and I think one of them that updated that pretty well was the color purple that came out back in December. And it is very queer. And there was a lot of fans of the original movie that were mad because the original film is not queer. But when my sister read the book, she's like, I don't know how people missed it. This book is filled with just lesbian lusting after each other.
[00:56:55] Speaker C: Yeah, it's very explicit.
And which is. I mean, it's. I mean, it's great, right? Because it's also, like, two black women who. I mean, half the time, if you do see a black woman in a sapphic relationship and media, it is with a white woman.
And so it's great to have that and to have, like, two women of color have an explicit relationship like that. But, yeah, unfortunately, it did attract a lot of homophobia.
[00:57:22] Speaker A: It is truly unfortunate. But, you know, I think that this is expanding quite everywhere, too. You know, I had taken a trip. I taken a couple of trips to New York. Unfortunately, it's becoming like a second home lately.
It's not unfortunate. I actually love it.
[00:57:33] Speaker C: But I'll hopefully be joining you sometime soon. I don't know. We'll see.
[00:57:38] Speaker A: Please.
But there's a ton of even there, you know? And Juliet, we have a non binary individual in that that is, like, it's very prominent, and they make a point of, like, their gender shouldn't matter. So, like, shut the fuck up is kind of what one of the lines is.
And then we have suffs, the musical, which features a real life, you know, lesbian couple and, you know, spamalot, which one of them, one of the characters turns gay and dracula. Comedy of terror. So if anybody is on TikTok and has not seen clips of Dracula.
[00:58:10] Speaker C: Oh, I have. I was so upset, I couldn't see it because I was like, thank God. Every single fruity Dracula adaptation. I'm like, thank God. As Jonathan Harker intended, unfortunately, I will.
[00:58:23] Speaker A: Let you know this. The clips are the only gay parts of that show.
[00:58:28] Speaker C: Why would you say that to me?
Your hand and you crush them.
[00:58:33] Speaker A: I saw it live. It was great. But it was like, I was just at the very end, my friends, like, I thought they were supposed to be gay, and I was like, you and me, bull sister. Like, what the fuck happened here?
[00:58:44] Speaker C: They advertise it like that, too, like they advertised it kind of brutally. Well, okay, you win some, you lose some, I guess.
[00:58:53] Speaker A: I mean, you know, your target audience, the gays were going to go for that reason. And that reason.
[00:58:57] Speaker C: Your target audience. I mean, I'm. I don't know if that counts as queerbaiting, but whenever, like, it's. That is a marketing tactic that people use sometimes, you know, where they're like. I mean, a lot of the time where they're just like, you know, like, we're going to post the gayest little sections of it and then nothing else will happen. But that'll bring in this audience. I mean, it's a musical. There's going to be the gays there anyway.
[00:59:18] Speaker A: It actually isn't a musical. That's the worst part. It's just a play.
[00:59:22] Speaker C: But okay. I feel like there's a lot of advertising mistakes.
[00:59:28] Speaker A: It's the anti mean girls.
[00:59:30] Speaker C: Oh, my God. That's true. You dangle a Dracula musical in front of me, and you snatch it away.
[00:59:39] Speaker A: Just because we're running out of time. I want to give you both a chance to highlight maybe some. Just some other queer media that you've watched this year, you've read, this year, you've experienced, and that you feel like people should maybe check out this month or this year, because as. As Cam said, this is. This is our pride year, and we should definitely celebrate that.
So. So, Kim, I'll start with you.
[01:00:05] Speaker C: I thought it'd been, like, 20 minutes.
[01:00:07] Speaker A: Oh, no, no. We are. We are deep into an hour, and that's totally fine. But, Cam, I'm gonna start with you. What do you feel is like people are sleeping on? What do you feel like people should watch or read?
Whatever. Whatever you think is just capsulates pride. And what we should be celebrating.
[01:00:25] Speaker B: Pressure because I've not watched or read that much, like, gay stuff, but definitely Doctor who this season of Doctor who, especially, like, and if you just pick one episode, watch rogue, because that's the gayest of them all.
What else?
[01:00:42] Speaker A: Like Snow White. But yeah, we're.
[01:00:44] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The stuff coming out this year that I think is probably going to be gay. Like, I'd probably look for Agatha the Marvel show. I think that's going to be very gay from stuff I've heard about it. So books wise, I've read the first fantasy series, God killer, that had, like, gay moments in it, which was good. It's also very, like, disability friendly. It's very, like, open and all of that. Like, it is a fantasy book.
[01:01:15] Speaker A: Oh.
[01:01:15] Speaker B: But it's just like, the main character's only got one leg. And, like, she. She's bisexual and, like, really stern and stubborn and quite a horrible person. But we need more of that, so.
And yeah, and otherwise, unfortunately, I've so behind on shows and films that I need to watch. But this podcast has given me such a big list that I will absolutely be there watching all of that.
[01:01:40] Speaker A: I was gonna say, I hope you hope you realize that Z and I are not gonna let this list stop. We're just gonna keep sending you.
[01:01:46] Speaker C: No, no, no.
[01:01:48] Speaker B: Please.
[01:01:48] Speaker C: Best believe I am. I haunt your DM's now.
[01:01:51] Speaker B: I live in it. That's fine. Please move into my walls. Like, just whisper gay show.
[01:01:57] Speaker C: This background is.
I've been chewing at the why did. Okay. For people, not for people listening. For some reason, Zoom gave me a fireworks display on this.
[01:02:06] Speaker B: It's the gay. It's the gay.
[01:02:07] Speaker C: And I think that that was the spirit of homosexuality.
[01:02:09] Speaker B: That was all.
[01:02:10] Speaker A: Yeah, 100%, but. 100%. You're living the Encanto Bruno lifestyle. Encamped walls.
[01:02:20] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
Okay, really quickly, just to touch on the things that I think people should watch. I'll be so brief with it. I swear to God.
I would like to direct people's attention to the rise of the lesbian screwball comedy.
Obviously, we have bottoms, which. What a movie. What a wonderful movie that came out.
[01:02:39] Speaker A: Oh, you just weren't talking about bottoms in general. I'm just kidding.
[01:02:42] Speaker C: Well, yes, of course, of course.
But just such a campy one of the funniest movies I've ever seen. Filled from top to bottoms, pun intended. With lesbians. It's just lesbians all the way down. It's fantastic. There's also a movie I saw where it's called Drive Away dolls. Is it a bad movie? Yes. Is it intending itself to be a bad movie? Oh, so, yes. Did I watch it kind of intoxicated with my 75 year old father? And it was much more incredibly explicit, and we just sort of had to live through that. Yes, but we did get through it by the entire time just saying tasteful lesbian sex scene and applauding us a little bit. So it was great. But I'm noticing this rise, and I think specifically from queer women, of just very unserious comedy about being a queer woman, which I kind of really like for some reason. This feels connected to me with. I don't know if you guys have been listening to Chapel Roan recently, but she has a lot of just, like, really fun lesbian music, and she has all these fun, campy outfits. And I feel like it's. We're kind of moving away from, like, this. I mean, we still have a lot of, like, we talk a lot about all this, like, sad queer stuff that we watch, but I feel like we're also getting a lot more, like, queer comedy in a really fun way, specifically with lesbians, for whatever reason. And I'm here for it. So that's what I recommend people check out.
[01:04:09] Speaker A: I was gonna say bottoms is at the top of my list. And I feel, you know, I don't know if this is when it began.
It just reminds me so much of the comedy of Broad City, and I don't know if that, like, started a movement.
[01:04:23] Speaker C: Let's go.
[01:04:24] Speaker A: Absolutely love it.
You know, has been hotel on Amazon is also really good. Also lots of queer characters, and that's also.
[01:04:33] Speaker C: Let's go. Independent animation getting picked up by studios. Love that.
[01:04:36] Speaker A: Yes. And it's, the music is just hilarious. You have a great time watching it. Cannot stress that enough. I didn't get to talk about it, but all of a stranger is one of my favorite ones. And I love that they took a story that features a straight guy and a straight couple, and they changed it for the movie to make it queer.
[01:04:53] Speaker C: That's fantastic.
[01:04:55] Speaker A: Yes. I was so, so Lizzie actually bought me the book to read for the website, and I was, like, super excited for the film. I started reading the book, and I was like, wait a second. Why is he pining over this woman? I was like, this is not gay.
[01:05:06] Speaker C: This is not what Andrew Scott promised me.
[01:05:08] Speaker A: Yeah. And so the film did it better. The book is really good. The film did it better because it just changed it. And he's kind of sort of in the book, queer coded, but it's very, very, very it's a. It's a translated book from Japan. So, like, that maybe says quite a bit about what's happening there. Um, cannot stress how great that one is. I personally need to watch Mary and George. I haven't watched it, but, you know, our bisexual straight king, the fact that.
[01:05:35] Speaker C: He had to come out as heterosexual as an actor is crazy.
[01:05:40] Speaker A: Nicholas Galazine, is it? I don't.
As I said before, nobody pulls their knees up that way and is straight.
[01:05:45] Speaker C: Like, no one has that many lesbian friends in a straight. First of all, right?
[01:05:50] Speaker A: Nobody carries around hand sanitizer the way he does and squirts on his hands and is straight.
[01:05:57] Speaker C: Listen, I respect him, whatever he is. He's an amazing actor. Yeah.
[01:06:01] Speaker A: I mean, let's be honest here. Camila Cabello has a type.
That's it.
[01:06:07] Speaker B: And she probably, probably helps them in a way.
[01:06:12] Speaker A: She's like, let me help you cross the Rainbow Bridge. That seems like they're dying. But.
[01:06:18] Speaker C: And, hey, you know what? If you like that sort of narrative, you will enjoy challengers.
[01:06:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:06:23] Speaker A: And on that note, I think that we reached the end of our podcast.
[01:06:27] Speaker C: I think we have.
[01:06:29] Speaker A: So we are running out of time, but we'd love to continue the conversation. Check us
[email protected]. or you can find us on Twitter or other social medias at my cosmic circus or a cosmic circus podcast. Twitter at cosmic podcasts. Try saying that twelve times fast.
Thank you again for tuning into the cosmic circle. My name is Brian Kittson, and you can find me on Twitter itson 301. That's pretty much my handle across all social medias. Thank you so much, Cam and Izzy, for joining me. Before we go, where can people find you?
[01:06:59] Speaker B: I am on Twitter hammondfilm.
Yes. Follow me on there.
[01:07:06] Speaker C: You can find me in Cam's walls, I guess. And other than that, you will not find me. I. You can try. It won't happen.
[01:07:16] Speaker A: For those who don't know, we have to send up smoke signals to be able to communicate with this.
[01:07:22] Speaker C: And I'm sorry. I'm trying my best. I really am.
[01:07:25] Speaker A: It's a lot of friction to rub those two sticks together to get the smoke in the air.
[01:07:29] Speaker C: I know. I know. And I appreciate you putting in the effort. I really do. I see it from my window up here in the mountains. I make the day long trek to make it to this court.
[01:07:39] Speaker B: Hello.
[01:07:40] Speaker C: You've sent for me.
I do appreciate it.
[01:07:45] Speaker A: Thank you again, everybody. We can't wait for our next trip to the cosmos.
[01:07:48] Speaker C: All right, bye.
