Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 <silence>
Speaker 1 00:00:17 Hey everyone. Welcome back to the Cosmic Circle. This is the official podcast for the cosmic circus.com, where the sites writers get together to chat about comic books, sci-fi, and fantasy films and TV series. Today we're discussing the start of a brand new DC franchise with the Batman. I'm Uday Ka writer for the Cosmic Circus. And joining me today are my fellow writers, ALA Drew and Emily. How's everyone doing today?
Speaker 2 00:00:43 Hi, I am ala Ruby and I'm very excited and happy to be here. I'm doing well, and I'm excited to talk about the Batman.
Speaker 3 00:00:51 Hey, I'm Drew. I'm doing pretty good today. I'm, uh, I'm pretty excited to talk about the Batman too. Hi, I am Emily. I'm doing good too, and I'm really excited to talk about the Batman.
Speaker 1 00:01:02 All right. So now that we know that everyone's excited to talk about him, what did you guys think of Sparkly Vampire Batman particularly, not just Robert Pattinson's performance, but also kind of the differences from past Batmans, like the way that he used technology, the way that he journaled and the focus on his detective skills.
Speaker 3 00:01:23 So, honestly, I kind of like, I know everybody makes jokes about it and stuff, but I kind of was into like the emo I, like, it was more of like a depressed, like, kind of like, uh, like sad Batman, I guess. I'm, I guess I liked that and I, I liked how we didn't get a ton of evolution, like the, the only, like the evolution really happened at the end of the movie, but I appreciated how there was actually like a growing point for Batman and Bruce Wayne. 'cause it kind of seems like in all the other Batman movies, you kind of, you're like getting everything right away. Like you're getting Batman, you're getting like established like Bruce Wynn, you're getting that like, dual personality. And I, I kind of like how like this Batman and Bruce Wynn are kind of one and the same, and it seems like he has to learn how to, you know, differentiate so that he's Bruce Wayne and that he's Batman so that he is not the same person.
Speaker 2 00:02:17 So the whole Robert Pattinson Twilight stuff was I guess kind of my dem my demographic at that time. And, you know, I, I wasn't into Twilight. I didn't see the movies or the books, so I didn't really have any expectations of his performance kind of based on that. And I came into the movie with an open mind and I, I really liked it. What was most appealing to me, I think was the, the crime thriller aspect. I really liked leaning into the detective stuff, you know, having him figure this out, having him, um, you know, investigate the mystery and kind of put all the pieces together. Meanwhile, while he's got the ridler running around causing, uh, havoc, I thought that was really interesting and really fun. Um, and I really, so there's like this detective and I guess crime trope where the detective's life and personal life is basically destroyed and falling apart. And I thought, um, I thought that was really true in this movie. I thought that this Batman, his life was just a wreck. And we saw that he wasn't, he really wasn't being Bruce Wayne at any time. He was just Batman and he was just the detective.
Speaker 4 00:03:25 I had really kind of like low expectations. I didn't wanna like, get myself super excited about it because like DC's, like past track record hasn't been the best. But I do like Robert Pattinson as an actor. Like I really liked him in te and his like performance and like this whole thing like kind of just blew my mind and how much, like, I loved it. And I agree with Drew, like I liked the Emo Batman kind of thing and Ila as well, like, um, the detective story and how they really like leaned into that. It was very interesting.
Speaker 3 00:03:59 Yeah, I think Ila makes a really good point actually, about how a detective's personal life and his work life kind of become one and the same. And I think that's the case of what's going on here is Bruce is kind of drowning himself in the Batman because he doesn't want to face his like, own personal problems. So I think he, he wants to become somebody else and I feel like that's his whole motivation for the Batman is just to, uh, distract him from his, like distract him from his own feelings. And I think by the end of the movie he learns that like, you know, he has like this quote at the end of the movie where he is like, I realize that I'm like really making a difference here. And I think that's like his realization point of like, this isn't just for me, it's for like the whole city. And he can, he can really make a difference. And like, I think it kind of becomes like therapeutic for him.
Speaker 2 00:04:45 And he wasn't making a difference before. I mean, we see this whole hero's journey kind of play out. He was, he was just vengeance. He didn't necessarily have, like, he wanted to kind of make criminals fear the shadows and fear him and all of that stuff, but he wasn't really pointed in a specific direction to kind of be a hero. And I feel like in this, this movie, we really saw him transform from just a, a vigilante, if you will. Like, you know, he's called in the movie to, to a hero. We see him actually helping civilians. We see him. Um, I felt like at the end when they were talking about renewal and maybe, maybe, uh, Batman could do more, I felt like they were kind of leading us on a path for if there's another movie, maybe to see more Bruce Wayne, maybe to see him kind of wield the, the dual personalities for good.
Speaker 1 00:05:35 I think that, that's an interesting point because I really liked Robert Pattinson his Batman. I thought that he did a great job, especially in the suit. But I mean, you're right, like the movie did focus a lot more on his Batman over his Bruce Wayne, which was refreshing. I liked that because I mean, to be perfectly honest, I don't really care about Bruce Wayne. I definitely find Batman more interesting. So I kind of liked that this movie only had two scenes or so, or like three with him as Bruce. But the thing is that like at the end, I was kind of surprised that they didn't like take it a step forward because like Bella Royal had brought up like the points that Bruce Wayne isn't helping the city. And then he has that realization at the end that he hasn't really been helping as Batman either. And so I thought that at the end he would kind of step up like as Bruce and like kind of come out into the light a little bit more and try to start changing things as Bruce. Um, but I guess that that's something that they're saving for the sequel.
Speaker 3 00:06:33 So I think why they, they like, I think why they focused so much on the Batman this movie is because they kind of, they, they say like in general that the Batman is Bruce Wayne's like real personality. And Bruce Wayne is Bruce Wayne's like fake personality. So I feel like even though there was a lot of the Batman, it also felt like we were seeing a lot of Bruce Wayne too. And I think that's something that people, people don't exactly realize is he's not playing Batman. He is kind of just playing himself in the Batman suit. Like, and so, uh, with with that, I think we got a lot more like, uh, more of a personal look into like Bruce Wayne's mind, even while he was in his Batman suit. Like, um, even though we didn't like see a ton of him outside of the Batman suit, I, I still felt like we saw most of like who he is while he was in the Batman suit.
Speaker 2 00:07:26 Ridler makes that point in in Arkham, I think, actually. He says, you know, when he is going on his, his little rant about how like he didn't get to Bruce Wayne and you know, we're, we're kind of not sure if, if, um, the Ridler realizes that Bruce is Bruce is actually, or Batman is actually Bruce and he, he goes on on this rant and we hear him say that, um, that, you know, I see the real you that like you're really Batman and you know that there's that moment basically that, that you were talking about Drew in there.
Speaker 3 00:07:59 Yeah. So I only gotta see the movie once and I really tried to pay attention at the Ridler interrogation. Um, but I was like having a hard time keeping up with what was going on. So like, did the Ridler know that? Like Bruce's Batman, I, I didn't catch on to that 'cause I, I only saw it once, so I wasn't sure like did he know that that Bruce's Batman?
Speaker 2 00:08:20 I don't think he knew. I think he was kind of lamenting the fact that he didn't, he didn't get to, you know, blow up Bruce. Um, yeah, he like, he's the one that got away.
Speaker 1 00:08:33 Yeah, he didn't realize that Bruce was Batman and he had that whole like, we're in this together kind of thing. And he was just being like, gosh, shucks, like too bad we didn't get Bruce too.
Speaker 2 00:08:42 I found that like, that little uh, scene really interesting because there's also a moment with Catwoman, I think on the, the roof of the building with the bat signal where she is, um, kind of of railing against the, the privileged people. Meanwhile, you know, Bruce is one of the privileged people and it's again that, that playing with identities and stuff, that was really, really satisfying.
Speaker 1 00:09:06 Yeah, I definitely want to talk about that. And this is actually a great segue into Zoe Kravitz's, Selena, Kyle, 'cause I did want to talk about her next. Um, but I really love that scene on the rooftop visually. First of all, it's incredible. Um, you guys know that I spent, like, I spent many hours trying to recreate that sunset shot of them with my Lego on mini figures. But then also I just really like their interactions in that scene. Um, first of all, I like that Selena called out like the specifically white privileged assholes because I did not think that that's somewhere that the movie would actually go, like explicitly I thought that they were just gonna leave that kind of like implicit. And the other thing is that I love that she's railing against Bruce Wayne. Like she calls him out by name and then like a minute later she's kissing Batman. I just thought that that was really, really funny. 'cause obviously we know that he's actually Bruce.
Speaker 3 00:09:58 Yeah. I think that'll create like an interesting dynamic eventually if she ever does. I think if she ever finds out that he's Bruce, I think that would create a big rift between them. Like I, I think because she see, she kind of seems like, you know, like more like she, she does it for like the lower level people and stuff like that. So I feel like she sees Batman as like this hero of the people. And I think if she saw that like it was Bruce, I think that would create like a huge rift for her between him.
Speaker 2 00:10:29 Well her moral part of her moral justification is almost kind of that she's Robinhood, she, she's okay to steal from Falcon because he owes her the money because of their famili familial relationship and she's okay to steal from the drug dealers and like the other privileged rich people because they're not, like, they're not good. So I think realizing that someone that she's fallen for is someone that, you know, she she's stealing from, that she hates would really be interesting.
Speaker 3 00:11:00 Yeah, I'd actually be really surprised if that's not something, if that's something that they don't do, like I, I would assume that in the next movie, I, I feel like that would be, like, that's something that would really uh, create like a progression in the story is, is when she finds out that he's Bruce. And I feel like, I feel like in the next movie you're gonna see Bruce Wayne step out a lot more and Bruce is gonna become kind of like a, you know, Bruce Wayne, the person is gonna become kind of an integral part of that movie. And I, I feel like maybe we're gonna get a little bit more of a balance between Batman and Bruce Wayne.
Speaker 1 00:11:34 I was kind of surprised that she didn't find out that he was Bruce by the end of the movie. 'cause I feel like, I feel like she's not really set up to be in the sequel. I feel like they kind of imply that she won't be there for the second one and might come back in the third. So I think it would've been interesting for her to find out like before she left and for that to kind of maybe cement her decision to leave, but then it, but then it would've like maybe left them on bad terms and I don't like that idea. Um, so, so I don't know. But, but you did bring up the point, um, ILA about Selena and Falcon, so I did want to talk about that. Um, I thought that that was a really interesting twist that she was his child. I like, I guessed it just out like while I was watching the movie I was just like, haha, what if she's his kid? I didn't realize that that's an actual question that has been raised in the comics. So I wanted to know what you guys thought about that
Speaker 3 00:12:23 In general. I thought, uh, John Terro did a really good job as, as Falcon, I feel like he's really made for those kind of roles and it's been a shame that like we haven't seen him in a ton of those roles. I almost wish I didn't kill him just because I know he was kind of a plot device and like I understand that, but I really did like him in this movie. I thought he was a really good character and I did think it created a really interesting dynamic. I thought the, the dynamic between Selena and and Falcon was, I feel like there could have been more there and they kind of cut it off quickly, which is fine 'cause I feel like there's plenty of other avenues I can take with Catwoman and, and Batman. But overall, like I I, I liked the little bit, like the little bit we saw the dynamic between them. I thought it was really interesting.
Speaker 4 00:13:13 Yeah. Um, I really liked their interactions and I thought he was perfect in the role of Falcon and I just, I was also shocked by that he was her father. 'cause I didn't realize that that was something in the comics and I also kind of wish that they didn't kill him, but it made sense to me a little bit. I just wish that he would suck around a little more.
Speaker 3 00:13:33 Yeah, I feel like plot plot devices were like very prevalent in this movie. Like, I feel like the Penguin was kind of a plot device too, like, which like, it, it actually like makes sense. Um, even though like plot devices are really prevalent, it also opens up a lot of doors for them to include a lot of characters without it feeling overstuffed. That was a little bit of my worry in this movie was, I know I had a really long runtime and I was like kind of concerned about it feeling overstuffed, but it kind of felt like a linear story. It felt like this was like Batman and the Riddler story and the Penguin and Falcon were kind of just like tucked inside of it. It didn't feel like we were going to five different places at once. Even though like in the movie it kind of cut between the Ridler and, and the Penguin and Falcon, it, it all kind of felt like one straight like linear story that was like heading in a direction. It didn't feel like the movie ever got off path. So I like, I think that's definitely like props to Matt Reeves for that because the movie could have very easily got messy and being able to keep everything like tight and like, you know, tight knit and like, um, like, you know, kept together. I think it was probably something really hard to do in this movie.
Speaker 2 00:14:40 There was a lot of world building and character building that they had to do in those three hours and I think they, I think they achieved that. To kind of go back a little bit to Catwoman, I think that in a way this, so it wa the movie wasn't her story, right? It wasn't called the Catwoman or the Bat and the Cat, but I thought in a way it was kind of a backdoor origin story for her. Um, and I thought the relationship with her father kind of was a really great example of that. We know like we know she's a thief. We know she's got the motorcycle and all these things and we, because of her relationship with her father, we find out about the things she's had to do to survive. We find out about the things she's had to do, um, you know, with her mother and you know, she was at the club at her mother's side and kind of the death of her mother. And I think that's a really kind of, um, neat way of getting a lot of character motivations across for her. And I thought that was really well done.
Speaker 1 00:15:38 I do want to talk about that a little bit because I do not understand the relationship that she had with Falcon. And I saw, I saw this movie with my friend, um, at one of those like Tuesday early fan screenings. Then I went with two other friends and my sister a second time, and then I went with another friend a third time. And the one thing that like all of them said is they didn't understand if Falcon knew that Selena was his child because Selena says that like he abandoned her to social services and just like sat there while she was taken away. But then at the end of the movie, like when she's trying to kill him, she says like, I'm Maria Kyle's kid, and like his eyes go wide and then he's like screaming about how he doesn't want to have to do this to his own flesh and blood. So I really don't understand if he knew that she was his child or not.
Speaker 3 00:16:26 Yeah, I'll be honest, I don't know either. I thought that like he did, I thought the whole movie that he did and then at the end when he learns I it, it just kind of threw me off a little bit because I was like, oh, maybe he doesn't know. And then <laugh> instead of like focusing on the scene, I was like, oh wow, this whole movie he didn't know. But like we still don't know if he knew or if he didn't. So I guess we'll, we'll never really know.
Speaker 2 00:16:50 See I don't think he knew. And I think part of the mystery that like part of the mystery of the movie was whether or not he knew. Um, and you know, we see that, we see that with the Batman too. 'cause the Bat or Batman is wondering like, what is the relationship between Falcon and and her and I think so I don't think he knew for a couple of reasons. She says that, you know, she grew up at the club, she was a little kid, I think it was like seven years old when social services came to get her or whatever after her mom died. And I think Falcon like, part of his superpower almost is that he is like, he's got a thing for faces and that he is got a thing for like beautiful women. So I think he can kind of like place that he saw her at the club, you know, whether she came back later in life and all of that. So I think that's just the familiarity that he has. And I got the sense when she came to him at the end, um, you know, she said, I know you're a powerful man, all this other stuff, you know, I think it was just Tim trying to help, like help someone out of whatever misguided chival rests thought that he, that he had. I don't think it was a paternal thing. And I think I do think the moment he finds out is when she says,
Speaker 4 00:18:03 I think he had a little bit of a sense, and Ila goes back to what you said when she was a club and like see at the club and she was as a kid and you like saw her face and stuff like that. And I think it like really clicked for him obviously when she was like, I'm Maria Kyle's kid.
Speaker 1 00:18:20 So, so I want to kind of circle back to what Drew said about how Matt Reeves was able to keep everything like very consistent and prevent it from getting messy because I do disagree with that a little bit. I think that everything in the movie was executed well for the most part, but for me, all of the Falcon stuff is where it did get messy because I feel like we shouldn't be questioning whether or not he knew. Um, I feel like if if he didn't know, then Selena's anger at him for like abandoning her is kind of misguided because how can you expect him to save you from social services if he doesn't even know he has a kid? We have no idea like why he killed her mother then if like he didn't know about her. So, I don't know. I think that it creates a lot of mess there.
Speaker 1 00:19:05 And the other thing about the Falcon storyline is that it was such like a hard right turn into like Falcon is the one behind everything. Like he's been the mayor of Gotham for 20 years. It made me forget the Ridler existed for like 20 minutes of the movie, and then after he was shot, I was like, oh wait, there's still like another 40 minutes of this movie to go because we haven't even dealt with the main villain yet. And I get that it might've been purposeful that, you know, like they want you to forget that the riddler's in the background, but to me it was just kind of annoying. Like I feel like they could have wrapped up the Falcon story in the movie in a different way and then left him as like the main villain of that planned like Gotham PD show that ended up getting scrapped.
Speaker 3 00:19:44 So for me, I kind of feel like the Ridler wasn't really the main villain of this story. I felt like he was the guy who was just guiding us. He's almost like the narrator. Like, uh, I I almost felt like he was just the guy through this story and Batman was the like the reader. Um, so like I know like what he did obviously was bad. Like, you know, blowing up like the dams and flooding Gotham, um, and like killing all those people, obviously that's terrible. But at the same time it didn't really feel like he was the main villain. It kind of felt like Gotham was the main villain and like the corruption of Gotham, that's what felt like the main villain of this story. And he was just kinda the guy to unravel all of it because I remember before the movie came out, Matt Reeves would not stop talking about the corruption of Gotham and like how that's gonna be such an integral part of his story.
Speaker 3 00:20:29 And I feel like when he was writing he from like, from the foundation of it, he wanted to write about the corruption of Gotham and he figured that he could use the Ridler kind of as like a segue into that. And I think that was a really smart move. Um, because like, you know, the Ridler, I don't know how much of of like a main villain he can be. Like, I appreciate that he had a purpose and that it was leading us somewhere and then it kind of like blew like the whole story wide open. And I think that was a really smart way of using the Ridler that I'm kind of feeling like an expendable character. Like he, while he wasn't, while he didn't necessarily feel like the main villain, he, he was such like an integral part, even though he had like, he, he had a very few, uh, like scenes like him and the Penguin had like the least amount of scenes in the movie definitely. Um, but he made such an impact in such a short amount of time.
Speaker 2 00:21:23 There are these real parallels between the Ridler and Batman. And I think that I think it was really well done. I think that in a way they're both, um, I don't want like, this might not be the right word, but like the, the heroes of the movie, if that makes sense because, so there's this crime drama aspect, right? But the Riddler at the end says that they're even both working together because they both like, they both want vengeance, right? They're just going about it in different ways. And I think the Riddler, you know, the Riddler helped Batman to see essentially that he was going about it in the wrong way. Um, he, he needed to actually help, like, help people and not just exact vengeance, um, because the Batman was kind of monstrous in his own way and the Riddler obviously was monstrous in a whole nother way.
Speaker 3 00:22:16 Yeah, it's kind of like a yin yang kind of thing. Like, um, it had parts, they were almost like the same person with the same purpose. Obviously Batman doesn't wanna kill people and the rid was killing people, so it was kind of like they almost had the same purpose. And I think that's what made the Ridler feel like Batman was in it with him, um, because they're kind of trying to figure out the same thing and with just with different purposes. Like, you know, the Riddler wants everybody to pay and while Batman does, he wants to do it in a different way. I think he wants to fix Gotham while it kind of seems like the Riddler just wants Gotham to burn with him. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:22:52 See, I think that that's another segue into a topic I wanna talk about because I thought that that was executed very well, like that scene between the two of them and Acum is really good. The thing is, I just, I don't like that that concept like at its core, I do not like the concept that Batman and Ridler are like the yin and the yang of what's going on in Gotham. To me that's what Batman and the Joker are like, they're, they've spent so long like drawing lines between Batman and the Joker and how like Batman is the Joker, or like Joker is Batman, like if he had one bad day and that they're like just as like mentally ill as each other. So I like that concept, but to kind of translate that all and then put it on the Ridler, but then still have the Joker in this universe, I really, really hate that at the end of the movie because then to me it's like the Joker can't exist in a universe where the Ridler has already taken that yin-yang concept.
Speaker 3 00:23:52 I don't know how I feel about the Joker yet. My feelings haven't really sunk in because there wasn't enough of him, you didn't really see his face. Like, it kind of felt like maybe they were like, you know, even between that conversation they had at the end, like how they're, you know, like, like the riddle, the riddle that the Joker gives the Riddler and how they're friends and stuff. And I just kind of hope it doesn't feel like they're one and the same. Um, I don't know, it'll be up to Matt Reeves to kind of, I I feel like he's definitely gonna have different takes on every single villain. Like everything's gonna feel fresh and I think maybe that might bother some fans, but like everything is gonna feel different and like organic and unique and I kind of feel like they're gonna go on a completely like different path with the Joker than what we ha what like, like than what we've seen in the past.
Speaker 1 00:24:39 I like, I agree with that. He's definitely going fresh with stuff. I really liked the angle that, like the Riddler's the Zodiac killer, I thought that that was like a really cool thing to kind of make him into this serial killer. But Ridler and Joker, even in comics, I feel like if you, if you really break it down to their most basic personalities, they're already similar characters. So then to take like one of the defining concepts of the Joker and then give it to the Ridler, I feel like there's nothing then to make the Joker unique unless you make him a completely different character. And so that's what I don't like, like yes you can do like original fresh things, but why would you take like a really good aspect of one villain and then put it onto like a completely different villain. So that's like what kind of left a bad taste in my mouth at the end.
Speaker 3 00:25:24 Yeah, I think that's where like, that's like what, what they're gonna do with The Joker, I feel like, and I feel like that's what we're gonna get with a lot of different characters, like with villains and stuff. And I feel like it's gonna be, it's gonna create a lot of controversy because I, I just don't know where they're gonna go with all these villains. And I feel like in the second, the next Batman movie, there's gonna be just as many villains. Like obviously I don't know if the Penguin like will be around in that next movie, like as, as prominently as he was in this movie. I feel like they're gonna go in a different direction and then they might like circle back in the third movie and like tie everything together. It kind of seems like that the, you know, classic tropes like tying everything together in a third movie.
Speaker 3 00:26:02 Um, but yeah, I'm really interested to see like how much they change all these villains because the Ridler was like a complete 180 and I feel like the Ridler always had that potential. The Ridler always had the potential to be something else and he was, I get like the comic bookies of him originally, how he wasn't really that serious of a villain and you know, like he just would make these like crazy riddles and I think this movie was like peak ridler, like it really kind of got the most out of that character. So while I feel like changing, changing things with other villains might be controversial, I feel like we can give Matt Reeves a chance to, you know, extract the most out of a villain, even if it's like a different story.
Speaker 2 00:26:50 For me, it feels like the joker in this, in this iteration of Batman is more about targeted violence to achieve his own personal vengeance and kind of vengeance on behalf of everyone that, um, that the city has kind of left behind like Ven vengeance for all of his, his online friends, for example, for the, the people that have kind of been forgotten. Whereas with the Joker, and this is, this is kind of going back to the Nolan iterations of, of the Joker for this, this perspective. Um, the Joker feels like just chaos. He doesn't feel like he, he doesn't feel like he's in service of vengeance or that he's necessarily been personally wronged. He just seems like an agent of chaos.
Speaker 1 00:27:39 Chaos. Like you're right, I did think about that angle, like especially Nolan's iteration of the Joker is very much focused on anarchy, whereas the Ridler in this movie had kind of like a personal bone to pick with like the rich and the powerful as someone that was forgotten and kind of like let down by them. But then that's, to me, that's why the movie kind of falls apart at the end. Like I do not really like the third act of the movie very much. I think it's executed very well. I think it's a very good piece of entertainment, but I don't like any of the concepts behind it because I feel like it just goes against everything the movie's been saying. Like Ridler was mad at the people of Gotham at the Rich and the powerful for covering up the corruption and for leaving people like him in the dirt.
Speaker 1 00:28:23 So I don't understand why his solution was to bomb the sea wall and flood the city. 'cause I get that he wanted Gotham to be like, cleansed of its corruption that he wanted the city to be just like wiped out and then rebuilt. But the thing is like when you flood the city, you are going to kill all of like the poor people like you while all of the rich and powerful will be safe and fine. And then they're just gonna start it all over again. Like they're just gonna rebuild Gotham the exact same way it was. And so like, and, and then he's trying to kill like Bella Reel who's like the only person that's actually trying to make a difference. I think that the entire ending at like the Gotham, like Square Garden or whatever, just completely like falls apart. Like I feel like it just makes the movie's message like fall flat because they wanted to have a cool fight.
Speaker 2 00:29:08 Yeah. It doesn't seem in line with the, his motivations there,
Speaker 3 00:29:12 It kind of felt like the movie could have ended after they arrested. Um, like the ridler, they kind of like, I, I get that they needed a third act to like kind of, you know, give that blockbuster feel. And I kind of felt like that's like really the only reason that the third act existed was to like, you know, like give us that blockbuster action like big action sequence and stuff like that. Which I like, I get 'cause like as like as much as like we want to see like a true, like no like Batman story, like detective story and that was great. But I think like you have to, they wanted to target all audiences and not just like in a pure a pure movie making like perspectives. They, they probably felt like they didn't have enough action like, or enough like big set pieces and stuff.
Speaker 3 00:29:59 So they kind of just, I feel like they kind of wrote that like I, I feel like maybe that was like rewritten or like reshot like, because like, you know, like DC was probably saw that there was a ton of like detective work and not enough action. So I feel like they probably like got involved and, and um, kind of like maybe forced it a little bit. It kind of did it, it just felt like the third act felt a little bit forced. It almost felt like the story was over and then it just kept going for a while. So I think they made the most outta the third act and like, I didn't dislike it, I didn't hate it. Like I would watch it again with no problem. Um, but it didn't, uh, at some points it kind of felt a little forced.
Speaker 1 00:30:41 Yeah, see that's, that's what's weird to me. I don't think it's bad. I very much enjoy watching it again. Like when we get to like the end of the movie and it's like the third act and like Riddler's plan to destroy Gotham is revealed like chills every time. It's very entertaining. But when you kind of sit, like when you're not watching the movie, like as soon as I walked out of the movie, I was left with a bad taste in my mouth when I thought about like what had just happened in the third act, even though I enjoyed watching it. And that's kind of what it is right now. Like, if I was sitting in the theater at this moment watching it, I would be enjoying it. But because I'm sitting down and talking to you guys and like trying to dissect it, yeah, I feel like it, it's very clear that it, that it kind of just stops the movie in its tracks.
Speaker 1 00:31:21 Like it goes too far. Like that's the thing, the movie could have stopped with Riddler's rest and it would have been a little bit anticlimactic, but I feel like that's better than throwing everything but the kitchen sink into the movie for absolutely no reason. And that's why I brought up The Joker 'cause at the end of the movie with a Ridler and like Batman looking like two sides of the same coin and having an army of Riddler goons trying to destroy the city and like, cause all of this chaos that literally just felt like the joker to me. And so by the time I walked outta the movie, I was just like, why was the Riddler even the villain in this movie?
Speaker 2 00:31:55 Do you think that the Joker is gonna be the villain in the next movie? Or do you think he's just, you know, he's just a little seed they've planted for some time? He's definitely sometime later definitely
Speaker 3 00:32:06 Just a seed. I don't see him being the villain. I feel like they're gonna go with like Hush and like, like I feel like Hush is probably like probably the most likely. I, I feel like the court evals should be saved for the third movie that's kind of like a tie everything together kind of thing. Although I feel like they're heading that direction with like the website and like something is coming like that RTA a lot of like website and it's like, you know, like you thought all this was finished and it kind of seems like they're heading towards like the cor vs. So I feel like it could, that could be like the second, like second movie villains as much much as I would like it to be like the third movie villain and like kind of wrap everything up. Um, I feel like yeah, it's probably gonna be the quarter owls.
Speaker 2 00:32:47 I'm so curious about, you know, your guys' thoughts on what the website means and what we're leading up to.
Speaker 1 00:32:53 I, um, sorry just, just to circle back to Court of Owls for a second. I really want the Court of Owls. I think they would fit perfectly with this like franchise's kind of examination of Gotham's corruption. I think it would devastate Bruce like if he found out that like Thomas and Martha were part of the court of ows. And so that's definitely something I want to see. I don't think jokers gonna be the villain in the second movie after what Reeves has said, which does kind of irritate me because when, like when I walk out of a Batman movie, feeling like Joker could have been the main villain and then you have Joker in it and like imply that he's already faced Batman and then say that he's not gonna be in the second movie. I just don't see any reason to introduce him in the first place.
Speaker 1 00:33:35 So I think it'd be interesting if Joker and Ridler kind of like returned as a team in the third movie. But the other thing is like, I want to get new villains. Like Drew said, I wanna see like four new Batman villains in every single movie. And, and Drew's right, like when they are plot devices like the Penguin was, they don't really take away character development time from the other characters. So that's how I feel about that. Um, in terms of the website, I thought that it was gonna be counting down to the reveal of the deleted scene with Batman talking to the Joker now I think it's just counting down to a sequel announcement in like a couple of weeks because they've already confirmed the Penguin show and um, and I don't know when they're gonna release the deleted scene.
Speaker 4 00:34:17 I also think that the website is just like leading to something like a sequel, um, announcement because I don't think it's gonna be anything like too big. 'cause I don't think that like, like a, something with the Joker or like maybe, I think it might be the deleted scene. I don't think it's gonna be anything like way too big. I don't think they've thought that far ahead for it.
Speaker 3 00:34:36 I feel like it could be like a tease of like the court of vowels. Like it kind of seems like it's like the whole Riddler like thing where he's not done revealing secrets. So that's like what kind of gives me like the vibe of like, we think we've figured out everything that's corrupt about Gotham, but like really we've only like scratched the surface.
Speaker 2 00:34:56 See I wonder if it'll be another Ridler, um, like another Ridler video, like a post credit type thing with that. And I thought it was really, I don't know what happened in, you know, your theaters, but in my theater when, you know, when the movie was done, every single person sat in their seats. 'cause we were, we've all been trained by Marvel movies for post credit. So I thought that was kind of funny.
Speaker 3 00:35:18 Yeah, I already knew that there was no post credit. So like people were sitting down and I was like, Nope, I'm leaving. I knew there was no, uh, new post credit, but I, I like, I feel like there could have been a post credit scene for this movie. Like there's so much like Matt Res, his whole thing was like setting up the future. This movie was such a world building movie and like, while it told a really good story, it also did a really good job of setting up the future. Like it set up so many different like avenues to like go down. Like, like we're getting the Penguin. I I definitely feel like we're gonna get a Catwoman announcement. Like it has to be like, there's no way they're not gonna give Zoe Kravitz her own kind of like her own French, like, not like franchise, but she could get, I could definitely see her getting a show.
Speaker 3 00:36:01 I could even see her getting a movie, honestly. Like I think her like character is big enough where she could get her own movie, but I feel like it's more likely she'll get an H B O Max show. There's so many different avenues they can go down. Like obviously the arc of asylum stuff, like that's gonna be cool. I just feel like there's so many different places it can go and like I really am looking forward to seeing Matt Reeves go down the entire like rogue gallery of villains because I feel like that's where he is heading. Like he puts so many villains in this movie. I feel like he's gonna keep going. Like I don't feel like he's gonna like stop.
Speaker 1 00:36:34 Yeah. And I did want to ask you guys, um, this question like what, what is something that you want to see from a sequel? Because for me it's definitely again, that robes gallery. I think that he did a great job integrating all of the Batman characters in this movie and I can't wait to see even more of them. 'cause Nolan had like three Batman villains in every single one of his movies. Or sorry, he had like two Batman villains in every single one of his movies. Um, but they were very separate, like even in the dark Night, like the Joker was the main villain. And then when Joker was done, two Face rose up. But it was like, it was all very separate. Like they were never together. And so I do want to see like the villains together and kind of like, kinda like the Harley Quinn show. I wanna see them interact with each other in Gotham.
Speaker 3 00:37:15 I definitely think that they're gonna interact a lot. Like, I think that's kind of what they were showing in this movie. It's gonna be like a very interconnected like universe. I almost feel like this universe can go beyond three movies with Batman. I feel like, and you know, I kind of hope like it's like a Mandalorian thing where we see Batman pop pop up in other properties. Like I really feel like they could build a whole world out of this. Like if Matt Reeves does this again, Matt Reeves in DC does this properly, they could really build a whole kind of world outta this. 'cause we haven't even touched like Robin or Dick Grayson or you know, like Bat Girl there. There's so many different like places that they've yet to go. There's so much to do in this world. And like I, I know that that there's a game coming out called Gotham Knights and I feel like they could almost like build this world up to be so rich to a point where we could get to a thing like Gotham Knights and not feel tired of this world yet.
Speaker 3 00:38:13 So I really feel like they can get to that point. I feel, I feel like we can, they could get past like three Batman movies with like, you know, other properties like Penguin and Catwoman and I mean who else? Like who, who knows where else we're gonna go. I just, um, but for like the sequel, I I think right now the, like the grounded, realistic villains make the most sense. Like I've seen a lot of people say Mr. Freeze, it's kind of a cliche one now. I think the Mad Hatter could work. Um, obviously the Court of Owls, uh, two-Face I think is one that they have to do eventually. Uh, I think that that would work, that would work really well. I just don't know if that would feel like a rehashing of the Dark Night because the way they did the they, the way they did Harvey Dent in the Dark Night feels exactly like how they would do Harvey Dent in Matt Reeve's universe. Um, so I don't really know how they're gonna kind of make it organic, but guess we'll have to see.
Speaker 2 00:39:13 So I hate to say that. So this, there was a deliberate choice not to have the Batman origin in the story, right? Everyone knows that Thomas and Martha Wayne were killed, that's why he became the Batman. But I was kind of, uh, very curious about what specific thing happened two years ago that started him on this, this crusade that, you know, he's been journaling and hanging in the shadows and stuff because it had to be some event that made him like, do this Cape It's and et cetera. And I'm wondering and hoping that we get a little bit more clarification there is in further movies.
Speaker 1 00:39:48 What I'm wondering is, I know that especially when Gotham was coming out, there was a lot of talk around should Batman's villains precede Batman because so many of his villains went through so much development, like before Bruce even became Batman in Gotham. And so with that idea in mind and knowing that like people are already calling Oswald the Penguin, like before Batman's like really interacted with him, I'm wondering if Joker like showed up on the scene two years ago as just like maybe like the Riddler just like a, a stylistic criminal psychopath and if that's what made Batman suit up. And so like if Joker was his first villain, because Joker did say everybody loves the comeback story. So he's clearly fought Batman before
Speaker 2 00:40:35 And he was an Acum, so somebody put him there, some something had him end up there.
Speaker 3 00:40:40 Yeah, I did. I think in Matt Ru's interview he kind of said it's like not, he's not the Joker yet. So I feel like there's still a lot of development left for like, see that's the weird thing is I really thought they were gonna like build up to earning the title of like the Penguin earning the title of the Ridler and earning like the title of Catwoman, which she's still not called Catwoman yet. So I feel like that's that there's still room for that. But I didn't necessarily like how from the beginning they were calling them the Penguin and the Riddler and all that stuff. I feel like I wanted 'em to earn those names throughout the story, kind of the same way that I feel like Batman is gonna go from like being called vengeance to being called Batman.
Speaker 1 00:41:19 Yeah, I feel like, so the concept of having to earn stuff in comic book movies can be very overplayed. And again, Gotham just kind of did all of this stuff. So I understand why they didn't want them to like earn their titles, but it does not make any sense to me that he's called the Penguin from the beginning. But then he's just like Carmine's like lower, like he's like Carmine's right hand man, but like he's lower, he's low on the totem pole, he doesn't know everything going on. He only gets like control of the Iceberg Lounge. By the end of the movie there's gonna be a whole show dedicated to his like Rise as a crime Lord. And yet he's called the Penguin from like the first scene that he's in. And it's the same thing with Batman. People only ever call him vengeance. He calls himself vengeance. Um, Selena and the Penguin both call him vengeance like jokingly, but then all the newspapers are calling him Batman and he's calling himself Batman. So I don't really have an issue with the Ridler calling himself the Riddler. I thought that was okay. But everything else is is it is just confusing to me. It's like, it's like they didn't want to pick a lane.
Speaker 3 00:42:23 Yeah, I almost feel like titles become like, like in the world there's supposed to be like scary. Like I feel like the Penguin earns that name and like when people hear the name like the Penguin, it's supposed to be like scary and like, you know, induce fear. Um, kinda like the same way with Batman, like, and knowing that like the Penguin is associated with like a, like a uh, somebody who's not at the top, it kind of ruins it, it doesn't ruin it, but it, it almost makes me feel like the, the name the Penguin has less meaning. Like, because the Ridler definitely earned like the name that Ridler and like, I, I get what Uday says about like how it can feel overplayed, but I feel like especially with the Penguin, it kind of has to be a name that's earned, not like for the audience just like earned in the universe. Like
Speaker 1 00:43:15 Emily, what do you wanna see from a Batman sequel?
Speaker 4 00:43:18 I would love to see the Court of Vowels at some point and like what Drew said, I agree like with what he said earlier about how there's so much world building and how they could bring so many villains into it. And I definitely like would love to see the Matt Hatter. He's like one of my favorite like minor villains, but I have no idea what would make sense for the next one. I think bringing in like Harvey Dent and then like having him become two faced would make a lot of sense for the next one. Especially with if we're gonna go political and if Bruce is maybe gonna kind of step up if, since Bella Real is mayor now and he is gonna work on his public image,
Speaker 1 00:43:54 I saw a funny fan theory on Twitter actually. Um, someone posted and, and like they think that Bella reel could become two-face in the Batman universe. I saw that too. Um, what do you guys think about that?
Speaker 4 00:44:08 I think that would be, I don't know what to think about that. I think it would be kind of weird to have her become two-face since she's like, but I guess Harvey was kind of dedicated to changing the city, but then you kind of snapped to
Speaker 1 00:44:22 Yeah. 'cause that, that's the point that I saw people making is that like Bruce has a good relationship with Harvey, like a good working relationship. Like Harvey's one, one of the only people that actually sees Bruce mm-hmm <affirmative> and they were like, Bella is like the only person that like sees Bruce like as well. Like sees the potential in him. And then, and then on the one hand I think it'd be really sad that like the one person that wants to make a Gotham better would become two face, but that's the entire point of Harvey Dent. So yeah,
Speaker 4 00:44:49 I think it would make sense actually now that you bring that up. It would be, that would be kind of cool.
Speaker 2 00:44:54 I think it makes sense considering the third act and I think it maybe is one of the, the things they were trying to kind of get across in the third act because she's so idealistic and optimistic going forward. Um, and even, you know, even Gordon tells her don't, don't take the stage. It's not good. And she, she does it anyway and she gets shot. I think that the third act is kind of her losing a little bit of her idealism there and I think, you know, that's something interesting for them to play with and see how that transforms her.
Speaker 3 00:45:24 Yeah, I kind of hope that like, that kind of gives her a wake up call. Like I, I kind of felt like her character was a little bit naive at times and I feel like in a world like Gotham you kind of have to have that self-awareness. Like, or I guess she had like this optimism about her and I wonder if, you know, like her getting shot now kind of not like killed that optimism, but I wonder if it, it kind of made her wake up a little bit to like the real Gotham and I, I just want like, I'm curious like where her character is gonna go in the next movie. And I, I think like the Harvey Dent twist like, would be really cool. I just don't know if like Matt Res would do that. Like I think it would work and like, I don't know how like, you know, like we, we don't know how the actress like would do as two-face, like we've seen her as like the, as the mayor, but, so I think there's a lot of like potential there, but there's also a lot of like, we don't know yet.
Speaker 1 00:46:17 Yeah, I agree. I I think it'd be really cool. I'd love to see them do that, but it would be again, a, a huge change. Um, and then obviously if you were to like kind of gender and race swap two face, I think that it would lead to a very, to like, to like, um, a little bit of controversy from some communities online. Um, not that that should be a reason not to do it, but I think that I, they might just be worried about like changing the character too much, but there is a gap in the DA position now, so Harvey could pop up in a sequel. Um, I know that it is a little bit of a cliche suggestion now, but I would like to see Mr. Freeze. I think that they could do a great job with him. I also think Poison Ivy um, would be great.
Speaker 1 00:46:58 I really want to see Poison Ivy on film and I think in this universe she could be pretty cool. Um, and then like in terms of other grounded villains, I think Scarecrow and Man Batt could work. I don't wanna see Scarecrow though, but I feel like Man Batt could be like if Reeves wanted to like go horror still, um, I think Man Batt would be like a good horror villain. And then finally I do wanna see Harley Quinn, um, Harley Quinn's like one of my favorite DC characters, probably my favorite DC character. Uh, but I think there's two issues with that. First of all, well first of all there's the issue of I don't know if they're gonna do The Joker. And then second of all with Margo Robbie's Harley Quinn being so prominent. Um, and like the first film, like live action film depiction of the character. I don't know if Warner Brothers is gonna want to touch her with like a 10 foot pole 'cause like they might want to wait until Robbie's done with Harley Quinn before they introduce another one. But I think it'd be really, really funny if Lauren Ridloff played Harley Quinn because Barry GaN is two-face and they have such good chemistry. I think it'd be really awesome to see them as like another couple.
Speaker 3 00:48:02 Yeah. Um, I honestly feel like DC's not gonna touch Harley Quinn with like a 10 foot pole for now. I just feel like they don't wanna, like Margo Robbie is such like a standout as Harley Quinn and it's like almost like one of those like, you know, Robert Johnny Jr. Ironman castings where it's just like so good that you don't wanna see another version of it. Um, so I just don't know if like DC's gonna take that risk and like it's, you know, they've taken the risk with the Joker before, and besides like Joaquin Phoenix, it, it didn't really work out with Jared Leto. And I feel like they could be concerned that like, you know, um, having two Harley Quinn at the same time might create some, some conflict. But, um, I mean, we don't even know like how Barry Barry Keegan's gonna do with the Joker.
Speaker 3 00:48:53 I mean, we've only seen him in one scene, so I would rather see how they're gonna handle the Joker first, and then if it's done in a way that's like, if it's done well enough, then I feel like that leaves some room for them to introduce Harley Quinn. But it would have to be in a really different way because getting two, like two versions of Harley Quinn, Harley Quinn, like, she's not one dimensional, but she's a very specific character. So they would have to get creative with, I feel like they'd have to get creative with that character. And I feel like that's, that's kinda like what Matt Reuse is doing. So the door is open for that, but I, I just don't see them doing Harley Quinn anytime soon. I feel like there's so many different villains to like, dig into that we haven't really seen yet and like haven't seen, explored. So I feel like in the next movie we're gonna get like another villain to like a, like how they did the Riddler, how they changed so much of the Riddler. I feel like they're gonna do that with another villain. And I can totally see it being like, Mr. Freeze or, you know, who knows.
Speaker 2 00:49:54 I wanna pick up on something you said about the Joker really quickly because there was so much criticism online of how the Joker was portrayed for like that what, 30 seconds? And I just thought that was so unfair. 'cause it was so short and I just, I didn't get that.
Speaker 1 00:50:09 I feel like I'm gonna be unfair in the reverse direction. Um, I loved him as the Joker. I think he's already like Miles better than Jared Leto. I really, I really like his character design for one. I did want to mention that, um, it, it, it's just, it's more interesting to me than Jared. Let's design, like he has a more prominent like chin and like nose it looked like. And then, um, like the hair is kind of like combed over and it's, it's not like super long. It's kinda like floppier. But I mean, I do, I do think it's funny though that people bring up like, oh, like Warner Brothers wouldn't want two Harleys running around at the same time. Like when they were supposed to have three Batmans running around like in the same year, um, before the Flash got delayed. But I think the difference is that you're right, like Margo Robio as Harley Quinn is like r d j level casting. So I feel like it's not diluting the audience as much as like, because like there's two Superman right now, two Live Action Superman, except one of them hasn't been in a movie since like 2017 and one of them has a very successful TV show. So I don't think that they would wanna put like two Harleys against each other like that this soon.
Speaker 3 00:51:16 Yeah. I feel like, like I think that DC is like very quickly gonna do away with Superman and Batman. I think they're gonna go with Super Girl and Bat Girl going forward, um, which is, I I feel like is why they were so comfortable doing multiple Batman right now and introducing a Batman that's like completely outside of the D C U because it really does feel like they're kind of gonna go, you know, I think if Henry ca I think if Henry Cabell was gonna be back as Superman, I think he would've like been in the Flash. Maybe a little bit like, like maybe Ben Affleck level. Like I, I don't know how much time like, you know, Ben Affleck's gonna have in The Flash, but, and like there's been a lot of rumors that like, it's kind of his sendoff, which is believable. Um, and it doesn't, obviously you don't, I don't think Michael Keaton is gonna be around forever as Batman. I mean, I think he's kinda like a segue into Bat Girl and like we already know he's in Bat Girl. I kind of think that they're gonna go with Bat Girl and Super Girl and then we're just gonna get Batman, like as, as his own thing.
Speaker 4 00:52:23 I think they're definitely gonna go that way too. And I think that's kind of what's best for the d c Eeu. 'cause Ben Aflac seems like he's kind of done and they don't know what, I feel like they don't know what they're doing with Henry Cavel and he seems like he's ready to come back and he is just kind of waiting for them. But I don't think they're ever gonna bring him back.
Speaker 2 00:52:41 It's interesting with Henry Caval especially because, you know, he, he has been clear that he loved the role and he would, I think he would come back. But he's also, um, he has his successful show The Witcher and he is also like joked and you know, there've been all sorts of fan castings for him in the Marvel universe. And I just, you know, it'll be interesting to see where he goes depending on
Speaker 4 00:53:05 For sure. 'cause I know a bunch of people's fan castings like what Captain Britton Yes. Or something. And I think he's kind of, he seems like he really likes that. And who knows with anything with Marvel is possible. And he's probably, I don't know, maybe had a meeting with Kevin Fige, but that's just me dreaming.
Speaker 3 00:53:24 Yeah, I mean I, I feel like he's probably done a Superman and I, I feel like, like it, I feel like he's probably headed towards the, uh, probably headed towards the M C U,
Speaker 1 00:53:36 So I do just wanna bring it back to the sequel for a minute. Um, not just like, so kind of separate from characters. Um, what storylines do you guys want to see? Uh, because I know we, we, I know we talked about Court of Ows, but other than that we've kind of just been talking about like what villains we could see. I know that the movie kind of set up No Man's Land. I hate that idea. Um, that's also part of why I left the movie the first night with a bad taste in my mouth because I do not like the concept of that story at all. The concept is good, the concept is fine. Um, but it's been, I feel like it's been done to death. It was done in the Dark Night Rises. I've heard it was done on Gotham and Titans. It was done in the Harley Quinn animated show and I'm just exhausted of it. So I hope that they get that storyline out of the way in the Penguin TV show that he rises to power like during like the Anarchy, um, season or whatever. And then Batman just kind of mops up the mess in the first 10 minutes of the sequel and then we move on with our lives. Do
Speaker 2 00:54:37 You think the flood is their version of the earthquake from No Man's Land?
Speaker 1 00:54:41 Yeah, I think it absolutely is. I know that a leaker was, um, had like tweeted like weeks or months ago that they were gonna adopt No Man's Land for the sequel. But I definitely think this is setting that up because it, it's basically the same thing like flood or earthquake. Like Gotham is like destroyed or partially destroyed and like cut off from the rest of the world. And you know, there was even the voiceover at the end about how like anarchy will reign and things are gonna get a lot worse before they get better and there's gonna be like a power vacuum. And I like, I've seen it like at least twice before and I'm just not interested in seeing it again. Especially not this soon.
Speaker 3 00:55:17 I think you'll see a lot of it take place, but during, in in The Penguin and then I think you'll pick up at the Batman and it'll mainly be over with. And I think they did that so that they can kind of have a power struggle, reset. Um, because right now everything is kind of up in the air and I feel like they set that up specifically for the Penguin to take over, like kind of fuck him. It's kind of, you know, crime ring. So I feel like that's gonna be established in the Penguin and then starting off in the Batman maybe within like maybe, you know, for the first act it'll be like ending that storyline. And I feel like what happens, like, you know, with No Man's No Man's Land is the segue into the sequel. Like it isn't the sequel story, it's the setup for the sequel story. It's like the what causes the sequel. So we'll just have to see
Speaker 4 00:56:08 Besides Cord vs I'd really like to see Hush.
Speaker 3 00:56:13 Yeah, I think Hush is is like, uh, it's like as close as you're gonna get to like a guarantee that he's gonna be involved somehow.
Speaker 1 00:56:21 So to dig deeper on some of the bat stuff in the movie, I want you guys to rate Batman's suit, the Batmobile the bat cycle, and the Bat Cave on a scale from one to 10.
Speaker 3 00:56:32 All right. So Bat suit wise, I'm gonna give it, I'm like on the fence. I first I hated it. I really hated the No Chin, but then I, I think it fits Robert Pattinson really well. I think the suit like, looks so good in the movie that I, I'm gonna give it like an eight. I think an eight is, I'm gonna give it an eight outta 10 right now. And I think that they'll be an evolution of the suit and I think eventually they'll probably introduce Lucius Fox and he'll kind of be like the upgrade for Batman. Um, like being that in like, uh, about the Batmobile, I'm probably gonna give the Batmobile like the same thing, probably like an eight out of 10, 7.5 out of 10. I'd like it. Uh, it's definitely fresh. Like it's definitely like a new idea and I appreciate that like everything about the Batman feels like a new idea with Matt Reeves, so I appreciate like how it's like a muscle car kind of, I just don't think that that's gonna be the Batmobile forever.
Speaker 3 00:57:28 I feel like we'll get more of like a classic Batmobile eventually. I feel like everything's gonna evolve with like the Batman kinda like the same thing with like the bat cycle. Um, I wasn't like, it's just a motorcycle. I mean you can't really rate that. Like it's kind of just like, you know, it is what it is. And I feel like eventually it'll get like a more distinct kind of bat cycle that's like, that feels like the bat cycle. Um, the bat cave like is interesting. I don't know how I feel about it, honestly. It's not really a cave. It's more of just like, like, like we know it's a train station. Um, and I do feel like they're probably just gonna end up staying there again. I don't see any reason why they would move somewhere else. So rating it, I'm gonna give it like a seven outta 10. But I feel like with everything that like we've been talking about, I feel like everything will evolve. We'll see evolutions throughout these next movies. So I don't feel like everything we saw in this movie is it. Like, I, I don't think, I don't think what we saw is what we're gonna get forever.
Speaker 2 00:58:31 I really enjoyed the bat suit and I think I'm gonna probably rate it pretty high, maybe an eight or a nine because of that. Um, it all seemed very grounded for lack of a better term. It seemed very, um, it wasn't like super techie, but there was a lot of um, there was a lot of stuff that you could do with it. I really liked the, the bat boomerang on the chest and I thought that that was really cool how that was functional. Um, that like the cargo belts and all the gear that he had I thought was really fun and I really liked his glider. Um, I thought that seemed like super realistic and kind of terrifying when he, when he jumped off the building with that, that glider thing. And I thought that was really fun. Uh, the bat cycle, like Drew said, I don't really know how you rate it.
Speaker 2 00:59:22 It's a, it's a motorcycle. It seemed it was cool. Again, I think it's early technology-wise in, in the Batman like world 'cause it doesn't seem like it has a lot of bells and whistles. Um, as far as the bat cave, I thought that, you know, it was a very gloomy and very, um, in keeping with the theme and I think they'll probably stay there. I liked the tech that we saw in the bat cave. I thought that the contact lenses with like the little, um, like the little HUD was kind of cool and the cameras. I thought that was really, really a neat piece of technology. And I liked like the printer for the cipher and all that stuff. Um, I, as far as what else is there, the bat, um, the Batmobile, I'm gonna rate it a five. I didn't really like it, it didn't seem like it did enough cool stuff, but that fits the theme being early in the bat technology world. And I just, I wasn't a fan of it.
Speaker 4 01:00:19 I'm probably gonna give everything like a really high rating except the bat cycle because it just felt so plain and normal and obviously because like everything is like so early on in his career as Batman. But I thought everything was like perfect for being like early on. I love the suit, I love the battering that was like magnetic and it was like practical too. Um, and I did like the bat cave and like that it was just under the tower. And I think eventually like they're just gonna expand on it because it seems just like a very small portion of it is just like dedicated for the bat cave. And I think like as he grows as Batman, there's just gonna be so much more stuff down there and like so much more room for him to work as like he gets more technology and everything.
Speaker 1 01:01:03 Yeah, I definitely agree. I'd give the bat cave, like I'd give it like a seven outta 10 because I really, I like the aesthetic. I like that it's in a train station, but we didn't really see much of it. So I definitely wanna see more. Um, I agree with the bat cycle comments as well. It's very plain. It did get like that kind of hood thing at the end that looks like a bat. So like that's the start of him adding a bat flare to his stuff, like to his vehicles. Um, but to me nothing's gonna be better than the bat pod from the dark night and the dark night rises. So I mean, I'd give the bat cycle like a, like a six outta 10 just 'cause it is kind of boring. The Batmobile, I really liked it. I, I thought that it was really cool.
Speaker 1 01:01:43 I love the way it just like crashes straight through stuff and like the engine and like the lights and everything on it are really cool. But it is just like a muscle car right now. Um, so I, I'd give it, I'd give it like an eight outta 10 'cause I really like it, but I need it to have bat wings and like a cooler like windshield and then it'll be perfect. And then the bat suit, I'm gonna give a nine and a half outta 10 because I love that thing. I like the armoring. I love the fact that like the battering comes out, like the set the symbol is a battering. I like the cowl a lot. It's grown on me much more. I always prefer longer eared cows over shorter ones. And I do like that you can see Robert Pattinson's jawline, um, and it's like really hot. I think the bat suit is really hot. So right now it's just suffering because the cow is like a tiny bit awkward and I think he should have thrown the batter ring instead of just using it to cut stuff.
Speaker 3 01:02:30 Yeah, I like with the bat suit and like the cow, I think everything is perfect. Um, just like the way the face is like sewn on. I don't really love that. That's like my one complaint. I don't know, I wish it was more of just like a mask. Like I get that it's like probably like leather, like sewn together, but I wish there was like a, like a, you know, like maybe like a carbon fiber material or something like that that I feel like we'll probably get like in the next movie. Like I, like I said like you know, like with the evolutions and stuff, like I don't feel like this is it. Like I don't feel like this is the, this kind of feels like stage one. I feel like it's only gonna, we're gonna get more progressions.
Speaker 1 01:03:09 Oh yeah. Like this, this definitely won't be it. But yeah, just kind of like as starting stuff. I agree. I don't love the stitching and it's just the forehead kind of seems very bulbous to me. Um, so like that's the kind of stuff I hope changes on the cowl. But um, but I guess that pretty much wraps up our Batman discussion. So just as a parting question, I wanted to ask you guys what you've all been working on recently.
Speaker 3 01:03:31 So for me, I've actually been specifically working on a, um, you know, potential Batman's villains for Batman too. That's like what I've been working on. So it's kind of funny to talk about this stuff in here 'cause it's like what I've been thinking about all week already. So I guess this kind of helps at the same time 'cause I'm not done with the article yet. Um, but like so far I have some pretty obvious ones in there. Um, like a lot of what we talked about today is like probably what I'm gonna go with just 'cause I think it makes the most sense. Um, but yeah, in terms of what I've been working on just the Batman Villains article,
Speaker 2 01:04:04 I am working on something special with Werewolf by night and I'm also working on, uh, some Star Trek Picard stuff.
Speaker 4 01:04:11 I am working on a happy Hogan Loose Threads article and where he could show up next because I don't think Spider-Man No Way Home was gonna be the last that we saw of him. And if it was, I'm gonna be really upset because that was just such an awkward sendoff for happy.
Speaker 1 01:04:25 That's really interesting. Um, I can't wait to read that article. I will be looking forward to it. Um, honestly, I've, I've just been working on this podcast. I don't think I have anything else on the pipeline right now, but, uh, but yeah, I'm, I might, and maybe I'll see if I can write some Batman articles because I do really like talking about this movie and I think I might go see it for a fourth time next week. So that about does it for this episode. Thanks for listening everybody. You can check out everything Batman related on the cosmic circus.com. Stay tuned for Drew's articles on those villains. And in the meantime, subscribe to our Patreon for access to our Discord conversations. Look for more news and reviews from us on the cosmic circus.com. And you can also follow us for updates on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook at my cosmic circus. Thanks for listening.
