[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to another episode of the Cosmic Circle, the official podcast of the Cosmic Circus, where we discuss all things nerdy. On today's episode, we're discussing the return of a fan favorite animated series, X Men 97, the reboot of the awesome Saturday morning cartoon. My name is Anthony Flagg, one of the writers at the cosmic circus. And joining me today, I have Uday Kataria and Alex Perez. How y'all doing?
[00:00:24] Speaker B: Doing great and excited to talk expunge.
[00:00:26] Speaker C: I'm doing great. I'm glad I'm here again.
[00:00:29] Speaker A: All right. I'm sure a lot of the listeners are very excited to hear what you got to say, mister Perez.
Oh, you know how it goes.
How glad were you to see the return of one of the most beloved animated projects of the nineties? Uday, go ahead.
[00:00:47] Speaker B: So I didn't watch the original animated project of the nineties because that was before my time. So throughout the lead up to the release, I was just like, oh, this seems cool. Like, that's cute. For fans of the animated series, I was like, I'll probably watch it. I have nothing better to do. But I didn't really think I'd get into it because I didn't see the previous five seasons, but I really loved it. Like, it was really easy to get into as a Marvel fan who just kind of has a base level knowledge of the X Men. And so I enjoyed it way, way more than I expected.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: That's great, Alex.
[00:01:25] Speaker C: For me, I feel kind of, it's a bit of an opposite today because that was clearly doing my time. So it's like, oh, crap.
But I grew up watching Spider man, the animated series, X Men's animated series, and I didn't remember much from the original animated series because admittedly, I was, like, around five years old. But it really did hit me with that nostalgic vibe of what it was to be a kid again.
And what Ugae says is right about how the show kind of connects to, not only is it easy for newer fans to kind of, like, get into the rhythm of the show, but it's also, like, for me, it was like the ending of it just continued on, right. It was like a continuation that felt, it felt like an attorney because it'd been almost 30 something years and it, in 97, but it was like, been a very long time, and. And it really just got back into it. It was just, it was, it was incredibly satisfying for me. And, you know, I'm just happy that we finally had, like, I was so nervous about this show in the way it was going to progress and how people were going to review it based on, like, nostalgic vibes and all that and how it would probably, like, most people are often, oh, reboot suck. But this one was, like, a really good continuation of the show, and I'm just happy they paid homage to the original series and it was very successful.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: Excellent. I did watch some of the show back in the nineties when I lived in Costa Rica. So one, I watched it in Spanish, and two, the episodes were completely out of order, so I don't have much memory. But. But speaking of, you know, the past show, did you guys go back and watch them on Disney plus? Were you. Have you seen them all? Did you already see them all, Alex Uday?
[00:03:27] Speaker C: I did not get the opportunity to see. To rewatch it on Disney. I just kind of went into it from memory based on what I kind of remember. So it was pretty much like, going into it. I was like, oh, okay, yeah, I remember this the last time. I. I kind of roughly remember the last time. Like, for example, you had a, you had Senator Kelly, who's now president Kelly, and then you had the. One of the villains for that. Spoilers. If you haven't seen X Men 97, bastion fucking kills him in the middle of the show is like, oh, well, well, uh, you guys were expecting to see more of trask? Well, here you go. He's dead.
But, uh, but, uh, you know, I was, I was just kind of glad, like I said earlier, I'm glad they managed to continue the show. But, yeah, I haven't. I haven't really watched it. I just based it off memory.
[00:04:22] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: I kind of meant to go back and watch some of the older episodes after I watched, like, the first two of this show. And I thought that they were really good. But honestly, I don't watch that much tv. Like, if it comes out weekly, I can keep up with the show, but if it's like a binge or. Yeah, it's like going back to watch, like, an older show. I just never get around to that kind of stuff. So I'd kind of like to watch it.
I mean, I'm probably going to watch it at some point because I like the dark Phoenix saga and I know the show did it. That's why I had considered watching the show once, like, many years ago. But you. Yeah, the short answer is probably, but I might not get around to it for, like, another two years.
[00:05:02] Speaker A: Yeah, fun fact, uh, when I remember it being added to Disney, plus they had the episodes out of order. That was like, I just started. I'm like, this kind of doesn't make sense. I got on some website saying, hey, you know, like, what's the actual order? And they messed up a few seasons. Like, got them completely out of whack. So I think I started to try to watch them in order, but you know how streaming services are. Like, it tries to tell you, oh, watch the next one. And then I was trying to, like, go back to the other season and get it corrected, but I never really did. But I did go back and watch, like, the last three episodes of season five just to get kind of up to speed with the new one before it happened.
So it was incredible that they were able to get so many of the voice actors back for this show. And, and I think the addition of the new ones were also fantastic. So what do you guys think about that?
[00:05:58] Speaker C: I want to get into this because this is a little bit more of my speed, but I loved, I kind of want to congratulate, obviously, first and foremost, the original, the members of the original cast back, like Bausa Beast Bausa and Carl Dodd as Wolverine. Fantastic. They have not missed the beat. They haven't skipped a beat. And I was surprised to see, you know, like, for example, the original voice actor for, for Gambit being recast as fable was like, oh, okay, that's a very, very interesting touch, which I want to say, though, AJ Locacio did a fantastically phenomenal job as gambit. And personally, for me, my favorite, favorite, favorite, favorite voice actor. Have to give it to him hands down, the entire show. Ray Chase's cyclops, the man killed it. The man slated was fantastic. I I have no complaints. Cyclops was. I'm just happy they, they got cyclops, right, because it's like, the movies made him so emo, right? And then, like, the first trilogy made him so emo. And so, like, what were you expecting black leather this time around? I was like, oh, my God, that was, that was beautiful. And, and I just loved Ray's take on cyclops. And I do also appreciate, uh, I'm blanking on his name right now, but the, the actor who did Charles Luxembourg, Ross Marquand, who has literally been like, Ross can make his own cinematic universe based on characters right now because he's like, he's been, like, five different MCU characters. Yeah. He's been infinity Ultron, he's been red skull. He's now, now he's freaking, freaking professor Charles Xavier. Like, the man can make his own cinematic universe with these characters, but I have to give him credit for actually getting really, really close to the voice of the original actor. And like, that was, that was a very, very good thing.
[00:08:00] Speaker A: I agree. Yeah, they, especially on Cyclops, I was mostly impressed with Matthew Watterson as Magneto. Just fantastic delivery of all his lines. I mean, he had so many great monologues and how he put them on the screen or put them via voice were just great. And I was honestly also really surprised that a lot of these actors haven't missed the beat. Like you said, it's been 30 years. I mean, people get older, their bodies changed, and so many things can happen and affect them. And yet you, there was like negligible difference.
[00:08:33] Speaker B: I can't compare them to the original show, but I really liked the voice actress for Rogue.
I also really liked storm. I think the actress's name is Alison Seeley Smith. I thought that she did a phenomenal job. I was honestly surprised to find out that that was the same actress as the original because again, I couldn't really tell a difference. But I guess you're right. Like, I just assumed that 30 years later a lot of them wouldn't be reprising their roles. So I knew just from Twitter that a couple of them had. But I didn't realized, I didn't realize how many actors had reprised their roles until I looked at the cast list, like yesterday.
[00:09:11] Speaker A: Yeah, they, they really brought back a grand majority and there was a few can. I mean, they passed away in 2020. You can't do anything about that. But for the ones that they did get and the replacements, just fantastic jobs all around. And while we're talking about characters, who is your favorite character this season?
[00:09:26] Speaker B: I kind of have to go with a rogue maybe.
I don't know. It's hard for me to pick a favorite. I did really love Cyclops because I fully agree with what Alix said. Like, I've never cared about Cyclops. I have never given him a single thought. He's always just been there and I don't get it. And now, even just after the first episode of X Men 97, I was like, oh, so this is how Cyclops is supposed to be. And honestly, I feel that way about the X Men as a whole. I liked the movies well enough, but I was always like, okay, cool. But I didn't get why they're so much better than other teams or why they were so popular. And this show has really made me seen in, again, just a few episodes how strong the X Men are as a team and individual characters. I do like Jean Grey on paper. But in a show like this, where every character is done really well, she was not my favorite the way I kind of thought she would be. I'd say my favorites were definitely Rogan storm and Cyclops, I guess, and galaxy.
[00:10:25] Speaker A: What about you? Hey, man, there's nothing wrong with saying all of them. You know, pretty.
[00:10:30] Speaker C: Pretty much. I mean, all of them. I think what I liked about this show is the way, how all of them were written and how all of them had the opportunity to shine, because each episode, you kind of focused on a different character. Like, the first couple of episodes, you kind of focused on Cyclops, then you focused on Jean Grey, then you focused on Jubilee and Storm, and then each character had their own opportunity to shine. Me personally, favorite characters? I'm gonna have to say Cyclops, magneto, and I feel bastion was, like, a really good villain for this one. But overall, yeah, I'm gonna say it's just hard because I loved all of them.
[00:11:20] Speaker A: I have three for mine as well. So, you know.
[00:11:23] Speaker C: You know, I loved all of them. For me, it's like Cyclops, magneto, it's like, it just depends. To me, I think what I love most, even though, like, I love how Cyclops was portrayed, and even though this character had very, very, very little screen time, I love, my favorite X Men of all time is Nightcrawler. And I just loved seeing him on, on the screen again and just the way he was portrayed. Like, they, they brought back the brotherly relationship that I love when they have, like, that brotherly relationship he has with rogue. It's like, it's a very. It's. It's well portrayed in pretty much all media. And I just love that they managed to continue that. And just the way he delivered lines, he, like, he had very short lines, but they delivered, like, the blood is blood. Family is family. That hit. And then I loved how.
I love how there was a double connotation.
It was when. When they attacked the X mansion, the sentinel human thing, hybrid creatures, they attack the. They attack the mansion and they go to attack rogue. And, like, wolverine goes, I have six reasons why you're in the wrong or something. And then Nightcrawler goes, no, my friend, nine. And then it's hilarious because it's nine, because there's the six claws from Wolverine. He has three swords, so that makes nine. But then it's also hilarious because in German, no is nine. So it's like a double joke. And I'm like, okay, I see that. I got that joke. I got that reference. And it was. I just love Nightcrawler.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: I, uh. I'd say my favorites were Storm, magneto, and Beast. And Beast specifically, I'm mentioning, because all the literary references, it was just the things he was quoting kept making me laugh. I'm like, was that Alice in Wonderland? Hmm. Yeah, I think so. And just so many other things. And Magneto, like you said, he just had so many great monologues and delivered, and. And, well, he showed up. You know, he was a force to be reckoned with. And honestly, I want to get a sticker that says Magneto was right and put it somewhere around so I can look at it and be reminded that he wasn't wrong. And Storm had such a great arc, you know, losing her powers, getting them back, having to overcome that mental block, it was just very inspiring. So.
And, Jubilee, you always got to have, like, an actual teenager. I mean, when the X Men, you always have a younger one. And she was fun, so.
So, uh, one thing that made me really happy about this show was that they didn't abandon one of the best parts of it, which is that theme song. Like, my God, I had, you know, goosebumps on my arms going up from that. And it just brings me back thinking to when Doctor Strange two came out and Xavier came out, and then we all kind of noticed in the credits, like, hey, that says X Men 97 theme. And then I think you, Alex, confirmed to me, they're like, it's what you like, but it's better because I think I was hounding you on. On whether they were keeping the theme or what they were doing with it. And you're like, it's everything you love about it just enhanced. And then I heard it, and I'm like, damn it, you got me. That was very true. So how awesome was it hearing that iconic theme song again?
[00:14:59] Speaker C: I think what's. I love music, too. I love. I love when certain things are done in terms of themes to kind of clue audience into something that's familiar. So, as you said, like, when they did for the first time in Doctor Strange, you could hear Danny Elfman just include a bit of the. Of the X Men 97 theme with, like, the. The trumpet in the background, and it was very subtle. And then they did the exact same thing at Miss Marvel when he's. When Kamala's friend goes, you have a mutation. And then you could hear the X Men theme in a synthesizer form. And then this show, you could tell Kevin Feige just loves the damn X Men theme because it was everywhere. It was. It was the opening theme. And then they. There were, like, I counted, like, eight different variations of the theme in action sequences, and each one of them was my favorite, but there was one that was just absolutely phenomenal, which was, it was in. When they're in Genosha and they're attacked by Master Mold, and then Magneto goes, we will not. We will not ponder to know. We will not live our days pondering where the more lives could have been saved. And then there's just this impactful orchestral version of the theme hitting while they're all zooming around in Genosha fighting. And I was like, oh, my God, this hits. This is bomb. And again, props to the Newton brothers, because it's. It was literally. They are fantastic at what they've done. They are also the composers for five nights at Freddy's. They were amazing with that one. And I was like, I have no doubt they're going to nail X Men 97. And, yes, 100% they did. So I am. I am proud of them for that.
[00:16:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I thought it was hilarious that after multiverse of madness and Miss Marvel, everyone was like, wow, Kevin Feige is obsessed with, like, that damn X Men theme. They're like, why won't he let it go? And then after I saw, like, the opening sequence to this show, I'm like, you know what? I get it. I'm like, put it in everything. It's a good theme song. And I agree, Alix. During the action sequences, I didn't notice it during Genosha. Like, I mean, I probably noticed it in the moment and then forgot about it. But I remember, I think, in the second to last finale episode when they were, like, fighting Bastion and asteroid M. Was that in the second to last episode? I don't know. They were fighting bastion, and the theme was there, and it was good, and I liked it.
[00:17:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Speaking of episodes, which one was your favorite?
[00:17:45] Speaker B: The second to last episode, tolerances extinction, part two.
I think that's my favorite. I liked the Genosha one quite a bit as well, mostly just because I couldn't believe what was happening. I was like, isn't this like an animated children's show? How are you going to do a genocide on it?
That was very shocking to me.
And again, I feel like that was the moment that things shifted where I was like, oh, this is a fun X Men show. To. I was like, oh, this is what X Men stories are. And it's like, again, there's so much drama, and I've heard people describe the X Men as being kind of soap opera Y. And I really feel that with this show, and I really love it. And so I think in the Genosha episode and then also in intolerance is extinction, like, when Rogue joins Magneto, I thought that that was one of the best moments in, like, the show, because I'm like, why wouldn't you join Magneto at that point? I'm surprised more people didn't go with him, because why would you want to keep dying for Xavier, who just keeps wanting to let humans walk all over mutants until they're all dead?
[00:18:50] Speaker C: Just debating Magneto versus Xavier at this point would require a show all of their own, because there's so much to unpack with that. So I'm just gonna reserve my thoughts on that one. But, um, you know, okay. For me, I I love that. You know, as a child, I always thought, no, Magneto's in the wrong because he's a villain and all this and blah, blah, blah. And then as I grew up, you know, I was seeing more comics. I was seeing their point of view and seeing the movies, and it's like, yeah, you know, Magneto kind of has a point. You know, humanity is always going to hate mutants, and it kind of, there's so many points to that. And I think that what really set the show apart was, for me, my favorite episode, again, was Genosha, as you said, it was, like, it was shocking to me a little bit to see how they managed, how they managed to do that. But honestly, you know, I want to say that I was shocked that they were able to go with that. But the shock factor went away for me in episode three. I was absolutely in shock when it, like, they were starting to do, like, the nightmare sequences and all that. And Morph is in the locker room, and, like, he has a vision of Logan taking a shower. And I was like, oh, okay. Well, yeah, I kind of get that morph has a crush on Logan and all that, and then they're in there, and it's kind of played out, which I loved. I love the dynamic between Morph and Logan and how morph is trying to, like, you know, get in, get in, like, trying to show his appreciation and love to Logan when he knows that it's pretty much impossible because he loves gene. But it was shocking to me when, like, you see Logan in the shower, butt ass naked, mind you, and Morph's first reaction is to smile. Like, pull out the x 23 clause and goes, hey there, Logan talking to that redhead, huh? Gee, do you need help with those hard to reach spaces and I was like, yo, yo, view the man. Yo, my God.
It's like, damn. So I wasn't. I was like, okay, so this is the type of show we're getting. All right, all bets are off. Fuck it. Let's do it.
That really took me out. I was like, oh, shit. And then you see, like, the vision of Gambit, like, when he sees rogue and Magneto, you know?
Yeah, these guys are not gonna pull any punches. And then, like, the thing is, like, the mastermind thing with Genosha, that did happen in the comics, and I kind of saw it coming when I. When I saw them, like, oh, they're here. And then you see cable trying to, like, stop something from happening, and I'm like, oh, they're doing extinction, bro. Nah. Oh.
Oh, here we go. But, yeah, I was episode four, without a doubt, my favorite episode of the entire show.
[00:22:10] Speaker A: I'd say my favorite episode is the same one that Uday said, you know, part two of tolerances extinction. I mean, seeing the adamantium get ripped out of wolverine, well, God damn. I really don't know much else to say to that. That was hard, man. That was cold blooded. Whoo. That. And just, like, the reaction, I'm like, oh, he's about to. No, no, no. And then you just see it come out, and I'm like, wow. They. They just. Mmm.
They turned that dial to eleven. What's next? Right? And then, you know, we got the finale after that. But, my God, this is a question from Vic that he threw at me before we started this. And that is, when do you think that sinister swapped Jean Grey and Madeline Pryor.
[00:23:03] Speaker C: Before the show?
That is a correct answer.
[00:23:07] Speaker A: That is an answer.
[00:23:09] Speaker C: It is an answer. It is a correct answer. I kinda know the answer.
I don't want to kind of spoil it, so I'm just gonna reserve my answer.
But I will say there's a popular theory around. A lot of people have. I've seen people get it right. There's a popular theory going around, and people. People pay attention to things. So I'm gonna just say, pay attention to the original series. It did happen in the original series. And there's a clue. There's a very, very, very big clue that kind of, kind of explains when it did happen.
And I'm gonna tell people to look now. I can't say the season.
[00:24:00] Speaker B: I can't say the season.
[00:24:01] Speaker A: I was just gonna say, is it anything to do with that theory I see about the fainting thing?
[00:24:08] Speaker C: Okay, listen. Yeah, Jean Grey faints a lot. Yes. We know this. We know it's Jean. Um, I'm gonna say, uh, it has to do. There's a moment in the animated series, in the original animated series, when you look at it, Jean Grey changes her hairstyle.
[00:24:29] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:24:30] Speaker C: There's no, there's no explanation as to why she changes her hair. But you notice, and it's a very drastic change and it's, and it's off putting because for many seasons, she, it's not early on, so people can relax. Not early on, but she's had her hair a certain way. A lot of people remember for a long time, and then at some point, the hairstyle changed and everybody like, that's kind of the clue, people. It's kind of this, this almost reminds me of the time of, like, when did they switch out rogue in secret invasion? You know, it's like, when did they switch him out? Is it, is it in civil War? Was it an infinity war? Was like, how is it, how is it going to work? So. But this is actually good.
Debatable. Debatable. The idea was good. The problem was it was executed poorly. It was executed poorly because they didn't build up to it as they should have. That's the problem. It didn't build up to the, to the reveal as they should have. But, uh, but that's another topic for another day. But, yeah, I know. I know when it.
I'll give, I'll give this clue. It's a later season of X Men, the animated series. So don't look at, don't look at season one and two. Look later on. Later on.
[00:25:52] Speaker A: Keep that in mind.
So, so moving on, we did see a bunch of mutants, you know, morph even turned into not only mutants, but other heroes like Hulk. But, but since we're talking about other mutants, are there any that you would like to see, see in the future sometime, like, say, iceman, Banshee, havoc?
[00:26:11] Speaker B: I want to see more mutants. You guys know I need my wanda. So her being off world and being a little vision on Banglido's little mind boat isn't enough for me. That's a cool tease, but let's make her a main character next season, please.
But I don't know. I'm also interested in seeing Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver just because I think of them as Avengers characters because my baseline knowledge is the MCU. Right. So im really interested to see how they would interact with X Men. We kind of got that with Quicksilver in the movies, but weve never had that with Scarlet Witch.
I like Iceman and everyone. So id love to see more characters in that regard, I guess. But I do think a lot of bases were covered in season one. We got so many mutants and like you said, a lot of really good cameos with morph. And if someone else were to, like, join the team, like, permanently, I really think we might need to, like, take people off because I like everyone on the team, but just even when we were all listing our favorites, like, I even forgot to say Magneto, I'm like, there's just too many people.
[00:27:17] Speaker A: But, but we got to replace Gambit, right? I mean, there, there is a spot.
[00:27:19] Speaker B: That opened up, but he's hurtful, isn't he?
[00:27:25] Speaker C: That's hurtful. It's very hurtful.
[00:27:27] Speaker A: That's. I've, I have something regarding gambit there towards the end of this podcast. I got a good question for him. We'll get there, but as far as, like, just mutants, not even just joining the X Men, but, like, is there any mutant? I want to see this guy or that one, you know, I mean, mine.
[00:27:40] Speaker B: Was like apocalypse, so I'm happy.
[00:27:42] Speaker A: That's a good one. Yeah. I want to see Ice man personally, and I actually have another.
I wouldn't call it obscure. It's just a very out of left field because I don't know how this would work in continuity, but if you've ever seen X Men evolution, Storm has this nephew called Spike, and I don't know why, but when I was younger, I just really loved that character and, and I really want to see him. He was cool. He was just, just different. He had like, this body armor sort of thing that he could throw out. And I really liked it. So I would like to see him.
[00:28:10] Speaker C: I'm going to tell you guys, my, my, here's the thing. I don't want people to get to take this as, as a fact that's going to happen in X Men season two. I don't want people to take this out of context. I want to say this, though, right now, you know, we have, like, we all know the ending. Some x men are in the past, some X Men are in the future, and very little, few people are, you know, in the present.
I know that there's the, the way they're going to format the story is sort of like Infinity War, where there's going to be one linear story, but there's going to be very different groups. And then you have, in the past, you have the group of rogue, Magneto, Beast, Xavier, and then in the future, you have Cyclops, you have Gene, you have Wolverine, you have storm, and you have morph in the present.
I need Bishop with forge, and I need cable to do X Force. There is no better time to bring in cable to do X Force than it is right now, because we know that Sunspot and Jubilee are currently on an extended vacation because these two poor souls have been traumatized for life as children. They're traumatized.
So right now, I want cable to kind of, like, form X Force to kind of help bring his parents back to the. Back to the present.
And, yeah, it's. It's my take on it. I feel like they're gonna do X Force for season two, but, yeah, I need to see X Force. And as for me personally, I would love to see, you know, I would love to see Domino on it, 100%. I'd love to see, of course, cable, but I would love to see the duo of Colossus and his sister magic. I would love to see them on that additional team. I don't recall if they've ever been on X Force, but I have to check my. My history of that. But I would love to see Colossus and magic just join. Well, Colossus has been part of X Force, but I don't think magic has ever been a part of it, and I know sunspots been a part of it.
[00:30:38] Speaker A: Psylocke.
[00:30:39] Speaker C: I know we got Psylocke very momentarily, but I would love to see Psylocke again. Yeah, I'd love to see Archangel also come back, you know, one of the original. Yeah, because we've had. We had Archangel kind of disappeared at the end of, like, season four, and, you know, he was with apocalypse, but we've never seen him again. You know, now that apocalypse is back, like, no, we got to know what happened to our boy angel, you know, like, come back.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: So did you just confirm that storm is in the future? Because we didn't see her in the future at the end of the season.
[00:31:17] Speaker C: Yeah, no, it's. I. It's not a scoop. Y'all can relax. Demiyo beat me to it.
[00:31:24] Speaker A: Oh, okay. I was gonna say, I'm like, yeah.
[00:31:26] Speaker C: He beat me to it. Like, for those of you that don't know, just in case apart. In the future, we have storm, we have Wolverine, we have morph, we have Cyclops, and we have gene. That's the team in the future. And then in the past, we have magneto, rogue, beast, Nightcrawler, and Charlie Xavier.
[00:31:50] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:31:51] Speaker C: And then the present, it's forge, Bishop, cable, Jubilee, and Sunspot. But I don't know if they're going to come back. Hopefully they do, because they were fantastic.
[00:32:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:03] Speaker C: So, yeah, those are kind of the divisions right now.
[00:32:05] Speaker A: Okay, so the series for you in Marvel releases, where does it rank? Like, top third, middle third, bottom third?
You don't have to give me, like, a, you know, I think there's, what, 36 projects? 33. I've lost count at this point. But. But boards that rank overall for you.
[00:32:23] Speaker C: I think it's five overall. Top five overall. Top five overall. But number one animated show.
[00:32:30] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:32:31] Speaker B: Oh, easily. Easily. I mean, it's competition.
[00:32:33] Speaker A: Number one, what if? And, yeah, not, like, what if has.
[00:32:39] Speaker C: Its moments, but I gotta give them. It has its moments, but X Men was like, listen, out the gate, it's done. It also inspires me a lot to know that, like, if X Men 97 was this good, imagine what the live action version of it is going to be like. That inspires me a little bit of confidence. Then they announced the screenwriter for it, and I was like, okay, my confidence is slightly diminished, but you have a couple of hidden misses, my friends. So I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. Normally, after a very big miss, you tend to have a very big hit. So I'm hoping the big hit is going to be this.
But, yeah, for me, animated top number one, Marvel show, top three, and then Marvel project overall top five.
[00:33:31] Speaker A: Wow. Okay, uday, what you got?
[00:33:34] Speaker B: I guess it would. It's definitely in my top third of Marvel projects. I'd say nowhere in the top ten, I think. Because, to be honest, I don't like animation that much. Like, I am not, like, the biggest fan of animated projects. This is definitely, as in, like, I like Disney movies and everything, but when it comes to, like, animated additions to cinematic universes, I tend to not care.
What if is not usually my cup of tea, but I did really enjoy X Men 97, but to me, it can't compete with the live action movies. I think it does compete with the live action shows because it's so much better than most of them. So among Marvel shows, I think it's probably the best Disney show that Marvel's done, to be perfectly honest. Objectively, everything is subjective, right? But I do think X Men 97 is the best. It's not my favorite because my heart belongs to WandaVision, but I do think it is the best made show, probably by a mile, because it does not have any of the problems that the other shows have among animation. Yeah, it beats what if's ass into the ground. It's so much better writing wise, animation wise, character wise.
Like, I understand that what if does a lot of different stories per season? But to be honest, so did this show. They did, like, several X Men story arcs in one season, and all of them were done well. Whereas with what if, you'll go from something being like a zero out of ten to, like a ten out of ten to, like a five out of ten. So I do think it's way better than the rest of Marvel animation. And, I mean, it's making me cautiously excited for the rest of Marvel animation, because, again, I didn't really care that much. Like, I'll watch everything, but I really wasn't getting excited about it. But now I'm, like, kind of excited.
[00:35:28] Speaker A: I'd say out of all the, I guess to rephrase the question a little bit more, I wouldn't say honestly, but better would be to say maybe out of the deep know Disney releases. And you kind of phrase it that way and made me think about it. I agree. I think out of all the Disney series, this is the best one. I mean, it was consistently good. I think the only week, and I'm putting air quotes, since you guys can't see me, but I'm putting air quotes around week. What was the Motendo one? And even then, animation does that. Animation has filler episodes, and it has one where we kind of divert for a bit. And, uh, I think Vin, in his full review, kind of noticed something that I agree with was that it was just kind of weird how there was a couple, couple episodes where they had, like, three storylines where then they could have just probably split them up and had them as individual episodes. But I understand, because viewers are going to be like, well, what the heck happened with storm? It's been like three weeks. I haven't seen her. Yada, yada. I get that. But I think still, overall, from start to finish, this show was just really fantastic. And you mentioned animation, which leads me right into my next question. So thank you. But let's talk about the animation itself. You know, Alex and I, we're huge fans of animation. We've written reviews over so many animated series and movies and such. But I just, I'm so impressed by the quality of the effects of the storyboards, everything, and that they went back and used the art styles from the nineties. I mean, you'd think some people would have some sort of a version of that saying, oh, that's old. You know, that's because back in the day. But people ate it up. I. That scene of Jubilee and Sunspot, when they combined their powers, that was so freaking cool. And I've seen some really neat Twitter threads where people grab some stills from the show that are just.
You could use them as backdrops. So many of them, because they just had.
One thing I love about the X Men is just the sheer abundance of color. There's just so many varieties of color. And even with the suits that, you know, bright blue, bright yellow with a little bit of red or a little touch of this or that. And Jubilee's nice big yellow jacket with the pink shirt underneath and the gloves and. And rogue with the green and the white. It's just awesome. There's just so much variety in it. So what did you guys think of the animation of this show?
[00:37:56] Speaker B: I thought it was beautiful.
I agree. I didn't really expect them to go all in on that nineties art style. I know everyone was afraid that it was going to be more like the what if style, which I think is fine, but I think it's just fine. I don't really like these animation styles that kind of blur the line between two D and three D. So I was really happy to see X Men 97 just stick firmly with 2d but kind of elevated because I agree, like, the colors really popped. You don't have, like, of course, like, the fuzz that you kind of have on, like, the older animated stuff, but it was still the exact same style. And, yeah, anytime anyone had light up powers, they just looked gorgeous. The action scenes in this show, they were really well done, even from, like, a fight choreography perspective. But, like, the animation was amazing. So I feel like this is the only animated project I've seen that, like, can stand alongside live action stuff, to be honest.
[00:38:54] Speaker C: I am. I'm gonna resume. I'm gonna summarize my feelings of this in one sentence.
Invincible. Eat your heart out.
[00:39:03] Speaker A: Oh, my God, you said it. I was thinking it, but, yeah, you said it. I love invincible, man. I mean, you know, I've read my reviews, but there's just sometimes I'm like, man, this is lackluster. And they taken so much time to do it, you know, but. But then 97 comes out, and you just. Gorgeous. Just beautiful.
[00:39:19] Speaker C: When? When, here's the thing. They told me of, like, a very long time ago, like, while this show was being developed and everything, they told me they were going to do a 2d animation. And I was so terrified at the time because I think this was, like, 2022, 2021, some. Somewhere along those lines.
No, not 20. 222-022-2023 so I still think it's like 2023. And we're like, in May, it's like 2022, 2023. And one of my sources had told me the animation is like 2D Style. And if I had to take a show to kind of describe it, it's kind of like Archer. And I am so glad that this man was wrong. I was like, I was. The thing was, this source is usually right a lot of the time, and it was terrifying to hear him say, oh, it's like, archer, shut up. Don't, don't say that because you've automatically looking like Adobe Flash player. I was, I was having stress about the show, but I am so happy that it did not pan out that way. And honestly, I'm just happy that it kind of, it kind of played out the way it did and it looked. It is absolutely phenomenal. You can tell there is anime inspiring right there. There was some anime animation right there.
[00:40:53] Speaker A: Studio, remember my report from a couple years ago? Yeah. I was thinking, I'm like, dude, if this is what my report was about, God, I'm so glad that that's where they applied it because, God, some of those fight sequences were just like, up there with, you know, some of the things I've seen in Naruto. And then why am I blanking out on the one demon Slayer, you know, because they have some really cool sequences and this show had those.
[00:41:19] Speaker C: But yeah, I'm gonna. To me, yeah, to me, that was just fantastic. I absolutely loved it.
[00:41:28] Speaker A: So moving on to the next thing, and it's, how do you think they're gonna handle Rama tut if they do him next season? What are your thoughts?
[00:41:36] Speaker B: I think they need to do him.
I don't think it would really make sense to not do him. This is the multiverse saga. I really hate everyone on the Internet complaining or not complaining, but saying that Marvel should move away from Kang just because Jonathan Majors is not a good person.
I think that just recast the role. The multiverse saga is about Kang. To pivot in the middle of it, I think would be really dumb.
I think obviously, Kang is the easy way to connect all of these multiverse projects because X Men 97 is in another universe, right? So I think we should see Rama tut. I don't really know how they would do him because to be honest, I don't know anything about Rama Tut. Besides, he's a variant of Kang that lives in ancient Egypt. So I don't know, maybe he's pharaoh and Apocalypse is his right hand man. I don't know, if they interacted that much in the comics or anything, but I'm really excited to, I don't know, because X Men is such a drama, so I'm excited to see it become like a historical drama and a futuristic drama at the same time.
[00:42:40] Speaker C: So you want my personal opinion, or do you want my spoiler tape?
[00:42:46] Speaker A: Both, because I have nothing to add on this one. So I'm going to let you take my airtime on that one.
[00:42:56] Speaker C: For the people who have, if you've read comics specifically, there's a comic mini series that's called the rise of Apocalypse.
It kind of follows, not necessarily. It follows Apocalypse's origins as an savanur and how he became apocalypse. Right. And in that comic, there's a massive connection to Ramatut, because when N Sabanur is being raised, he's raised by a particular tribe, I think. I don't remember the name of the tribe, but I know that he's raised by a tribe. And then this particular tribe that raises an Sabanur is slaughtered by, uh, they're killed by the, by Ramat's orders. Right. And then because of what happens with ramatut, uh, this awakens n seven's powers. It makes him become apocalypse, right? This is what, like, this moment where his, like, entire tribe is taken away from him and destroyed is what causes him to become a apocalypse. And he's chased by, you know, members of Rama Tut's, you know, court and all that in the comics. So seeing the finale of that, and I was like, okay, these are, you know, weird animal, egyptian creatures. You know, they're following him there. It's just humans with animal heads. I'm pretty sure they're all helmets and whatnot, that they used to do that in ancient Egypt. But then, like, you see, you see him present himself as en Sabanur being chased, and immediately my thought was, oh, my God, they're about to introduce Ramatut. And I know that there's a lot of people that are going to be like, no, you know, it's just apocalypse. They're not going to, they're not going to involve King into this. Ramatut has such an important involvement in Saba Noor becoming apocalypse that if they don't do it, they're not doing the character justice. And right now, that is the only way they can kind of, like, move forward. At least with the apocalypse in the past, I highly doubt they're gonna involve other variants like Immortus, because, fun fact, Immortus was in X Men. The animated series, although it wasn't necessarily immortus, it was the deep cut season four. Apocalypse is, like, trying to reunite all of these psychics or these telepaths. Among them was Jean Grey. And he has, he's essentially taking, like, a lot of villains, like Mister Sinister and all that, and he's telling them, oh, we need to round up all the psychics. And he, and they take, they take Jean Grey, and they took immortus. Right? And the thing is, this immortus wasn't really kang. It was. It wasn't really him. It was. It was like, I don't even remember the name of the character, but it was a guy who essentially, if you think about it, it's like Morph, and it has the same ability as morph, but it was just some guy pretending to be Immortus, and he, he dipped. That's. That was literally the only short cameo Immortus had. It was some guy pretending to be Immortus. So technically, Immortus was an X Men in X Men the animated series, but not really. And, you know, right there, there was this.
What, to me, what I think they're going to do is they're 100% going to involve at least Rama Tut. They're going to involve in X Men 97.
My problem with it is I don't know if they have enough time, right? Because the thing with animation, animation takes time. And I know that right now, they've already done all of their voices for season two, and I know that they've, like, done recordings for that, like, already, like, September 2023, they were already midway through recording X Men season two. So that's how confident Marvel was on this, on this project. But I don't know if, you know, based on the time frame, unless they, which is why I'm currently hearing, unless they move the story they want to do with the multiverse saga and Kang and the Council of Kangs and all the, all those multiverse people, there's not going to be enough time to set up X Men 97 properly or even involve them in this project, if they even did, which I'm going to be honest, I don't think they are, because in terms of X Men versus secret wars, it's. They're doing something else, but more on that later. That's a spoiler for another time, another podcast, another moment.
[00:48:01] Speaker A: Yeah. And I got a couple more questions I want to. I want to get through, because we should definitely discuss. But, uh, since we're talking about apocalypse in a sense. What did you guys think that there at the ending? We saw two versions of them, you know, inside, and we also saw Apocalypse, and the X Men are split up and everything. And, you know, like, where do you think you go forward with that? And as a follow up question, you know, we saw Apocalypse picking up Gambit's card and maybe implying that he could be one of the four horsemen of death. So what do you guys think about that?
[00:48:30] Speaker C: Oh, they're doing it.
[00:48:32] Speaker A: Okay. Well, there you go. There we go.
[00:48:35] Speaker C: Spoiler for those of you who haven't. Who just in case.
Not. Not necessarily. I mean, it's a spoiler, but, you know, uh, AJ's coming back. You know, it might be a flashback, it might not be a flashback. Who knows? All I know is there's lines that he has that's. That are being used for season two. So who knows? But, uh. But yeah, they're. They're 100% bringing in, uh, Gambit back, and he's going to be the horseman death, then they're 100% doing that. So for those of you who were very depressed about Gambit's death, he'll be.
[00:49:15] Speaker A: Back there you have, folks, there's a straight answer for you. So then, you know, looking forward, what are you guys hoping and expecting for season two? You know, like. Like you said, they already, back in September, recorded a lot of voice lines, so that means they're moving along pretty well, and hopefully we'll see it sooner rather than later. So what do you guys want to see in the second season?
[00:49:37] Speaker B: I want to see season two, not take two years to come out. So I'm glad they've already done voice recording, and I know that I think Brad Winderbaum, who's one of the execs, right, I think he said they're deep in the animation phase, so fingers crossed it comes out this time next year.
I'm just excited to see apocalypse messing up some x Men, to be honest. I really like the idea of the storyline taking place across three different time periods simultaneously. I just think that that was set up really well in the finale, and I thought it was impossible for me to like the show more, but then teasing that for season two, I just thought was, like, really, really exciting. So I can't wait for whatever they do. I have complete faith in them, which is weird to say about Marvel right now.
[00:50:24] Speaker C: Alex, you know, the thing for me is I have. I do have faith in what they're going to do. And, you know, the thing that I. That I'm interested in personally is how they're going to handle all these three storylines and how they merge together. And I know there's like a couple of good ideas that they're planning to incorporate.
And I'm just overall excited because, you know, apocalypse is exciting. There's this whole matter of whether or not they can, you know, turn him good. And I feel like this is going to be something that was set up in, it's something that was set up in season one cable talking about how he tried to prevent, you know, what happened in Genosha and he was stopped 200 times.
Right. And he was, he was prevented. And it's a fixed point in time. It's something that can't be changed. So it raises the question, you know, rogue and all these people, they're back in the past. Are they going to be able to change in Savonar's fate? Are they, are they able going, are they able to change what happens with apocalypse? You know, are they able to do it? And if they manage to, or is it going to be a fixed point in time? Right? Is it going to be a fixed point in time? Are they not going to be able to change it? Is Apocalypse inevitable? And even if it wasn't, if they did manage to change it, how drastically would we see the future? Right. Because Apocalypse is a very important part of the X Men animated series and, you know, a lot of things happen and a lot of things change. Like if Apocalypse is taken out, I can guarantee, it's funny to think about and no one take this out of context. I'm not, I'm not saying this is what's going to happen and if, and it's what's going to happen, but if apocalypse, if, if Apocalypse never becomes and Salvinor never becomes apocalypse and that storyline of Apocalypse never really of these, the storylines because he shows up multiple times in multiple seasons. If Apocalypse is never, if the story with Apocalypse never plays out as it does in X Men, the animated series, I can guarantee you there's going to be a couple of fan favorite characters who are going to be dead and you will never know and you're never going to know because apocalypse as much as, like we, oh, he's a villain. He ruins all of humanity. Yeah, but he's also responsible for a couple of your fan favorites, you know, and if they don't show up, they're dealt, they're toast.
So, yeah, so that's going to be interesting to see. It's going to be an interesting point to see. And it also times into like, the whole multiverse saga and how time is involved. So, yeah, what I'd like to see.
[00:53:35] Speaker A: In season two is maybe them moving. Well, this may not be season two, but just the future of X Men the animated series is. I would like them to want, at some point, maybe get to the two thousands and see their take on alternate futures and things that may have happened. So. So maybe, maybe three, four seasons from now will be X Men 2000. So that's about the only thing. And, like, who they said, I wanted to show up sooner rather than later, but the progress they're making seems like we'll get it. You know, it won't be two years out in between invincible.
But I'm gonna leave you all with one last really good question, because I think it encapsulates, like, everything. But, you know, there was a lot of surprises this season. Spider Man, Captain America, Black Panther, Fantastic four, in a sense, hulk, thunderbolt Ross.
Aside from these surprises, they were fantastic, and I don't think anybody really had them in mind. But do you think this show lived up to the expectations that were set upon it? Well, before we got our first episode.
[00:54:41] Speaker B: I think they were. Again, speaking as someone that wasn't a fan of the animated series, of the original one, I don't know. I feel like I saw a lot of people being very nitpicky about stuff before it came out. I remember people saying the animation style looked like crap from one still. And then after the show came out, everyone's like, this is perfect animation. So I think people were just really worried about something that they loved potentially being brought back in an inferior way. But I think people really loved it. Honestly, the response to X Men 97 is way bigger than I expected. I feel like I've seen. I feel like it's hit the cultural zeitgeist in a way that Marvel shows haven't for a while. Even Loki season two was never trending after episodes dropped. By the time I'd watched them, 10 hours after they dropped, no one was talking about Loki anymore. And of course, no one talked about secret infusion except to complain about it. But with X Men, I feel like it was trending, like, all day, and people were, like, really into it. And, yeah, it had all these connections that I didn't expect. I didn't know that all the old animated shows were in the same universe. So it was really nice to see, like, Captain America and Spider man and Daredevil. That was really great for me.
[00:55:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Big daredevil fan over here. So, man, was I glad to see him? That was great.
[00:55:57] Speaker B: I love how he's becoming the connective tissue in the multiverse saga. He's the one with the most appearances.
[00:56:02] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. You're right.
Alex, what do you think? Did the show hit right?
[00:56:08] Speaker C: Yeah, the show 100% hit. I want to say that right now, probably animation wise, it would be a very good idea for them to continue to explore the nineties as a playground for them, like, in terms of animation, because, like, MCU shows in animation form, like, what if works, but it doesn't hit as hard, because the problem with what if? And I think is it has to limit itself. Ironically enough, for a show that's supposed to, you know, have no limits on what is, the infinite possibilities. It limits itself on the rules of its own universe, and it has to limit itself on. On, oh, it has to, you know, this had to have occurred. And, like, the x, like, for example, you know, oh, the.
The shows have to be based in MCU lore, right? And a lot of. A lot of times, it doesn't really let them, you know, think outside the box or bring in things that are outside the box. And, like, it just has to be based on stuff strictly within the MCU. And that's kind of difficult because, like, there's so many good ideas and so many deep cuts in Marvel comics that most of the time, they get rejected or they can't be used because it's not a part of the MCU canon yet. It hasn't been introduced in live action, so it's. It's difficult. And then there's, for example, one of the things I'm most looking forward to that hopefully will break the mold will be eyes of Wakanda. You know, eyes of Wakanda is definitely going to change a lot. It's going to really set up a lot of interesting things because it is, at the end of the day, there's going to be an MCU show, and it's going to be set within the MCU. And the things I've heard about it are absolutely fantastic. I know we're, like, sidestepping, but it has me excited for the future of animation and how these animated shows could 100% affect the future of the MCU and the story they want to tell. So, yeah, I'm just excited that Marvel is just finally taking this leap of faith and just letting these stories be told. And with Marvel in, like, X Men 97, it lets them, it lets creators tell more stories that often couldn't really be told in the MCU in the setting of the MCU. So I'm just excited for it overall, and I'm happy that the show is getting the rave it's getting, and hopefully it continues to do that for many years to come.
[00:58:49] Speaker A: Yeah. The X Men are a very beloved team and comic book for a reason. We had so many fantastic characters, all with separate arcs that came to a head there at the end, and now they're all thrown across time and we're going to have to see who knows when, right when they. We come back to them and pick back up and introduce apocalypse and inside and just go from there. So, you know.
[00:59:12] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:59:13] Speaker B: My last, my last thought on the X Men, this is something I said in our discord, and I really felt it is that, like, every superhero team loves to call themselves a family. And I'm like, you guys are co workers. And especially with the Avengers. Like, the Avengers are like, oh, we're a family. And then as soon as they started getting Disney shows, you realized that they never talk to each other unless they're teaming up for a movie. And the X Men are like the total opposite of that. I really felt like they were a family early on in this show, especially. Gene and Storm's relationship was so good. And, I mean, it's because they are, they've grown up together in the same household and everything. So to me, it was really nice to see that finally kind of represented, because I feel like the X Men really are the only workplace where the employees can say that. It's like a family here, and it is dysfunctional, but it's more wholesome than toxic.
[01:00:04] Speaker A: Absolutely. Alex, do you have any last thoughts you want to impart on our listeners before we sign off?
[01:00:08] Speaker C: Um, you know, just thank you guys for joining.
I've. There's pretty much all I've I can say about X Men is pretty much this. Just keep supporting the show, keep showing your love to the show, and, yeah, expect more interesting things soon.
[01:00:32] Speaker A: There you go, folks. Well, we've run out of time, but we'd love to continue this conversation. So, you know, check us
[email protected], where everybody's writings are there and more. Or you can find us on Twitter and social medias at my cosmic circus. And we even have a cosmic circus podcast, Twitter at cosmic podcasts. Thank you so much for tuning into the cosmic circle again. My name is Anthony Flagg, and my. You can find me on Twitter at verdova. Thank you, uday. Thank you, Alex, for joining me. Before we leave, where can people find you?
[01:01:03] Speaker B: I'm on Instagram, Twitter, YouTube at golden Ninja 3000.
[01:01:08] Speaker C: And I'm on Twitter as Alex from CC. And people can join us on our cosmic circus discord. Thank you for supporting the cosmic circus and the cosmic circle and everything we do, folks.
[01:01:19] Speaker A: Thanks, guys. It was great talking with you. We'll do it again soon.
[01:01:22] Speaker C: Absolutely. Bye.
